Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6008|...
Just a graph:

https://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/military_spending_big.png

So my question is, what the HELL is happening in the US to let its defense spending keep rising? Just looking at this graph alone, anyone can conclude that the current situation is absolutely insane. Most of the US forum members here agree on this subject as well. Infact, I assume that most people in the US believe that the national defense spending is gigantic.

So, if everyone understands that it's absolutely not necessary to almost outspend the entire world on military matters, what keeps the budget soaring? Why are non-military expenditures subject to cuts to increase an already overinflated Defense?

I would also argue that such an enormous defense budget has actually become detrimental to US security. The enemy does not, and will not engage the US directly anymore. Conventional warfare is completely over; instead the strategy has become to lure the US into endless quagmires in foreign countries, and surprisingly, this has been used as an argument to further increase defense spending. That while not even half of the armed forces are actually involved in a conflict spanning two countries. The interventions and increased military activity around the globe has also made the US hugely impopular almost everywhere. I could also imagine that countries who are not US allies are unnerved by its ever increasing defense expenditure; China for example has been increasing its own defense expenditure by 10-15% annually and frantically pursues military technology.

The US defense contractors alone, receive more government money annually than the defense budgets of entire countries. That to develop technology that is completely unnessecary and to counter threats that do not exist (now or for the coming 20 years), or give aid to US troops (cooks, laundry service, water.. even mercenaries) while the US armed forces are supposed to be capable of doing all these tasks completely by themselves.

To make matters worse, the defense contractors actually seem to have the audacity to press the government to increase defense funding -even further- as this would apparantly endanger US projects, security (lol) or jobs.

http://www.lipmantimes.com/?p=20153

The cost of all overseas activities is not even a quarter of the current defense budget. While its cost has been mostly consistent, the DoD budget has almost doubled in the last decade. I cannot understand why on earth this would happen. I would say that the current trend in the US has actually become a threat to global security, and it seems to have been formed into an artificial lifeline for jobs within the US - ultimately being unsustainable.
inane little opines
Beduin
Compensation of Reactive Power in the grid
+510|5759|شمال
lol...saudi
الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5366|London, England
The tail wagging the dog. Those defense contractors are populated by former military officers who parachute into cushy six figure salaries after serving in the military. They push for spending increases in Congress, in the Pentagon, and they couch jump on news channels. They get their buddies in the military to scratch their back with the understanding that when it comes for that Pentagon clown to retire, he'll also have a nice job to parachute into. The military is bloated not because of any real need, but because the defense industry spends billions every year to convince Americans that bogeymen lurk under every bush and that we need such a big military to defend ourselves.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6008|...
So what's keeping politicians, who ultimately have the last word, from saying "no" to all the contractors? Simply through fear mongering?

Even so, defense contractors expenditure accounts for only 5-10% of the entire defense budget. Your navy alone is larger than that of the 13 next largest combined, 11 of which being US allies.

Where is this defense spending craze going to lead? I'd assume that to justify such a ridiculously large budget the US needs to feed itself with more overseas activities annually. Furthermore, the defense contractors within the US have become so large that they're now aggressively pursuing deals in foreign countries using the same rhetoric, and, because they can - putting up a forest of their own experts in front of any competition.
inane little opines
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5366|London, England
Well, jobs and campaign donations mostly. There's a very good reason that most of the defense industry is located in red states. Republicans will never agree to defense spending cuts and will always push for increases. Has very little to do with anything but politics. Reagan is the deity and he increased defense spending while cutting taxes so guess what (R)s want to do...

Also, it's the nature of any department in government to expand over time. Ego within the bureaucracy plays its role. So does the quest for raw power.

Last edited by Jay (2011-04-22 12:05:29)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5594

Jay wrote:

The tail wagging the dog. Those defense contractors are populated by former military officers who parachute into cushy six figure salaries after serving in the military. They push for spending increases in Congress, in the Pentagon, and they couch jump on news channels. They get their buddies in the military to scratch their back with the understanding that when it comes for that Pentagon clown to retire, he'll also have a nice job to parachute into. The military is bloated not because of any real need, but because the defense industry spends billions every year to convince Americans that bogeymen lurk under every bush and that we need such a big military to defend ourselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY
To be fair, you can't complain about military bloat if you got through school on a GI bill.
Blue Herring
Member
+13|4813
We should certainly cut down on our actual army(Infantry and all that jazz), however, I disagree with the notion of across the board Defense spending cuts. I think I've already made my point in another thread. The DoD contributes a lot more than just foot soldiers to stomp sandcastles in the middle-east. And, when you cut DoD blindly, the actually useful programs(and ones genuinely necessary to defense) get cut first since their impact isn't quite as apparent. After all, castle walls don't seem that important until an army is at your doorstep.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5366|London, England

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

The tail wagging the dog. Those defense contractors are populated by former military officers who parachute into cushy six figure salaries after serving in the military. They push for spending increases in Congress, in the Pentagon, and they couch jump on news channels. They get their buddies in the military to scratch their back with the understanding that when it comes for that Pentagon clown to retire, he'll also have a nice job to parachute into. The military is bloated not because of any real need, but because the defense industry spends billions every year to convince Americans that bogeymen lurk under every bush and that we need such a big military to defend ourselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY
To be fair, you can't complain about military bloat if you got through school on a GI bill.
You're going to be a moron now too? Jump on the bandwagon.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6008|...

Blue Herring wrote:

We should certainly cut down on our actual army(Infantry and all that jazz), however, I disagree with the notion of across the board Defense spending cuts. I think I've already made my point in another thread. The DoD contributes a lot more than just foot soldiers to stomp sandcastles in the middle-east. And, when you cut DoD blindly, the actually useful programs(and ones genuinely necessary to defense) get cut first since their impact isn't quite as apparent. After all, castle walls don't seem that important until an army is at your doorstep.
You can start with the defense contractors, I believe their combined government support amounts up to some 30-40 bln USD (comparable to the entire defense expenditure of say, Italy or Germany).

And I suppose they do, but does that (rather limited) support justify a budget that is almost 50% of that of the rest of the world combined? Defense is supposed to be ultimately there to provide security for a nation. You're in Afghanistan, Iraq, provided more than half the firepower in Libya, got a carrier group up in Japan and about 10 more randomly floating around. + about 3000 jets and god knows how much other military hardware & personnel.
inane little opines
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5594

Jay wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

The tail wagging the dog. Those defense contractors are populated by former military officers who parachute into cushy six figure salaries after serving in the military. They push for spending increases in Congress, in the Pentagon, and they couch jump on news channels. They get their buddies in the military to scratch their back with the understanding that when it comes for that Pentagon clown to retire, he'll also have a nice job to parachute into. The military is bloated not because of any real need, but because the defense industry spends billions every year to convince Americans that bogeymen lurk under every bush and that we need such a big military to defend ourselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY
To be fair, you can't complain about military bloat if you got through school on a GI bill.
You're going to be a moron now too? Jump on the bandwagon.
That really hurts my feelings.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5366|London, England

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

Macbeth wrote:


To be fair, you can't complain about military bloat if you got through school on a GI bill.
You're going to be a moron now too? Jump on the bandwagon.
That really hurts my feelings.
The man of steel? The guy that likes stomping on cats? You have feelings?

\_/

Go find a thread where you can proclaim the merits of a community college education.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5594

Jay wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:


You're going to be a moron now too? Jump on the bandwagon.
That really hurts my feelings.
The man of steel? The guy that likes stomping on cats? You have feelings?

\_/

Go find a thread where you can proclaim the merits of a community college education.
For the past few months you were highfiving me in threads, sending me karma messages\comments, and joking around with me in PMs and now this?
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6388|MN
I guess he calls someone an idiot if they act like one, even if they agreed in the past.  Seems a fair statement in this case to be honest.

Should I not be able to complain about government bloat if I receive a tax credit on adoptions?

Last edited by LividBovine (2011-04-22 12:30:54)

"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5366|London, England

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

That really hurts my feelings.
The man of steel? The guy that likes stomping on cats? You have feelings?

\_/

Go find a thread where you can proclaim the merits of a community college education.
For the past few months you were highfiving me in threads, sending me karma messages\comments, and joking around with me in PMs and now this?
But you seemed like you wanted the same treatment that lowing and dilbert get. You even made the same argument as them.

You've been disparaging the military for the last couple of months. I would love to hear you make those comments in real life to vets.

Last edited by Jay (2011-04-22 12:31:51)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5594

What argument? I'm still stuck at work and am on my cellphone and went to this thread first...

When have I talked shit about the military? And no Bovine, that's fine since by adopting you're alieving (sic) some stress on the social net but when you drop out of community college, and then join the military to get a free ride through college then you can't complain about bloat since you are part of the bloat...
Anyway did you go through adopting that African American child?
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5366|London, England

Macbeth wrote:

What argument? I'm still stuck at work and am on my cellphone and went to this thread first...

When have I talked shit about the military? And no Bovine, that's fine since by adopting you're alieving (sic) some stress on the social net but when you drop out of community college, and then join the military to get a free ride through college then you can't complain about bloat since you are part of the bloat...
Anyway did you go through adopting that African American child?
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 1#p3513171
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6388|MN

Macbeth wrote:

What argument? I'm still stuck at work and am on my cellphone and went to this thread first...

When have I talked shit about the military? And no Bovine, that's fine since by adopting you're alieving (sic) some stress on the social net but when you drop out of community college, and then join the military to get a free ride through college then you can't complain about bloat since you are part of the bloat...
Anyway did you go through adopting that African American child?
No African American.  Leaving in August for 2 more from China.

In reality I am adding to the burden.  I am free and clear of taxes for years by adopting.  2 years ago I got more money back than I put in.  I took the tax credit, but think the government has too many of these types of breaks.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6660|USA

Jay wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:


The man of steel? The guy that likes stomping on cats? You have feelings?

\_/

Go find a thread where you can proclaim the merits of a community college education.
For the past few months you were highfiving me in threads, sending me karma messages\comments, and joking around with me in PMs and now this?
But you seemed like you wanted the same treatment that lowing and dilbert get. You even made the same argument as them.

You've been disparaging the military for the last couple of months. I would love to hear you make those comments in real life to vets.
What argument did he make that was "the same as them" Jay?
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6660|USA

LividBovine wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

What argument? I'm still stuck at work and am on my cellphone and went to this thread first...

When have I talked shit about the military? And no Bovine, that's fine since by adopting you're alieving (sic) some stress on the social net but when you drop out of community college, and then join the military to get a free ride through college then you can't complain about bloat since you are part of the bloat...
Anyway did you go through adopting that African American child?
No African American.  Leaving in August for 2 more from China.

In reality I am adding to the burden.  I am free and clear of taxes for years by adopting.  2 years ago I got more money back than I put in.  I took the tax credit, but think the government has too many of these types of breaks.
Why are you adopting from China and not from your own country? (A legit question not trying to pin you on anything, really curious).
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6388|MN

lowing wrote:

LividBovine wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

What argument? I'm still stuck at work and am on my cellphone and went to this thread first...

When have I talked shit about the military? And no Bovine, that's fine since by adopting you're alieving (sic) some stress on the social net but when you drop out of community college, and then join the military to get a free ride through college then you can't complain about bloat since you are part of the bloat...
Anyway did you go through adopting that African American child?
No African American.  Leaving in August for 2 more from China.

In reality I am adding to the burden.  I am free and clear of taxes for years by adopting.  2 years ago I got more money back than I put in.  I took the tax credit, but think the government has too many of these types of breaks.
Why are you adopting from China and not from your own country? (A legit question not trying to pin you on anything, really curious).
Old post, but still fairly accurate.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 5#p1629075
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6660|USA

LividBovine wrote:

lowing wrote:

LividBovine wrote:


No African American.  Leaving in August for 2 more from China.

In reality I am adding to the burden.  I am free and clear of taxes for years by adopting.  2 years ago I got more money back than I put in.  I took the tax credit, but think the government has too many of these types of breaks.
Why are you adopting from China and not from your own country? (A legit question not trying to pin you on anything, really curious).
Old post, but still fairly accurate.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 5#p1629075
"interference by the birth parents", never thought of that. I guess that only would be reason enough. Well it is a great thing you are doing, and as far as the tax issue goes. I am all for any tax breaks that comes along with giving a child a quality of life and a future. Congratulations!
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6723|US
Well, the US is the only superpower in the world.

There is a lot of structural inefficiency in the DoD, but it is usually the big-ticket items that get cut.  The US is committed globally, and feels the need to have military force available.  With our insistence on outmatching any potential foe, and our reluctance to sacrifice human lives, that gets really expensive.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6114|eXtreme to the maX
Apart from the military-industrial complex controlling the govt and funnelling taxes to themselves, the govt also uses the military as a de facto welfare alternative. If they didn't what real unemployment rate would the US have?

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-04-22 23:04:46)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6725
Just a relic of cold war arms race. But galt is right about mercs and shit... Either way the US economy is HUGE, that's why they can spend a lot on defense. Still mil spending is only 4.0% of GDP.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6660|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

Apart from the military-industrial complex controlling the govt and funnelling taxes to themselves, the govt also uses the military as a de facto welfare alternative. If they didn't what real unemployment rate would the US have?
yes if the pilots on the military did not fly jets for the military, they would be on the couch waiting for a govt. check for nothing.

If the captain of a nuclear sub was not in command he would be lying on a park bench covered up by a newspaper.

If the helicopter mechanic was not keeping helicopters airworthy,, he would be on the street corning cleaning windshields for spare change.

Dilbert, you have really really have no idea what it is to serve in the military or the opportunities that open up for you because of it. Do you really think that it is wrong for a person to find an avenue in life that gives them a chance to better themselves. THey are helping themselves and contributing, far more than you ever have done. So please stow the judgment on those that took on a challenge greater than you ever had the balls to try.

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