BF2S Forums Israel and Palestine

Beduin wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Yes. Looks like you need to learn bit about this whole "peace process" thing.

"The Secretary-General reiterates that settlement activity in East Jerusalem and the remainder of the West Bank is contrary to international law," the UN statement said, adding such activity "must cease."

UN chief: East Jerusalem settlement plans are unacceptable
haaretz.com Published 15.10.11

Teach me feos, how the fuck can the Palestinians sit at the negotiating table with israel that urges its poorest citizens to take over more of Palestinian lands by tempting them with economical benefits and religious beliefs?
Do you know what those settlements mean for the Palestinian people living in those areas?

FEOS wrote:

the Israelis offering to stop the settlements and give back land in exchange for peace and recognition of their right to exist--and the Pals think it's not worth the trade

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

The last bit is entirely true.

A two state solution, one of which is populated exclusively by jews, is nothing like sharing the land - which was the original basis on which Israel was allowed to form.

Look at facts, Dilbert. Currently, non-Jews live in Israel and participate in Israeli life. There are even members of the Knesset who are non-Jews (granted, not many). On the other hand, the PA has baldly stated that there would be no Jews in their state.

And the Israelis have stated very clearly that if a two-state deal is reached or imposed those non-Israelis would have to GTFO immediately.
So on the one hand Arabs who have lived on the 'Israeli' side of the border for 100+ generations would be forcibly removed without compensation, on the other hand the Palestinians would decline to let jews who have never had a presence there migrate into Palestine (just as Israelis don't allow Arabs to migrate into 'Israel' at present).
Not sure how you believe the Israelis are being even handed here.

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

If you look closely you'll see the Israelis have also walked away from a two state solution, as the version on offer - where Arab-Israelis get to stay and refugees have the right of return - is not to their mono-racial liking.

Who has offered it and who has walked away? Israel has offered it (with nearly zero preconditions) and the PA has walked away...repeatedly.

The Palestinians have made counter-offers, typically agreeing to a two-state solution, minus the illegal settlements or plus right of return - the Israelis have walked away from that. Both sides have walked away from deals, not just the Palestinians.

A two state solution, with the Israelis retaining the land they're illegally squatting on is not a reasonable deal according to any impartial observer.

Bottom line is both sides attended talks, both sides put forward proposals, both sides rejected them and walked away, yet you pin the blame on the Palestinians.

Last edited by rdx-fx (2011-10-16 11:43:17)

Beduin wrote:

Am talking about camp david 00, that you were referring to as an example

Shocking wrote:

Beduin wrote:

do a research...

stupid propaganda posters.... "eluded Israeli control", that line is hilarious. Yes! They're out to oppress the poor arab victims... who did nothing to aggravate the situation, nop nothing at all. It's the dirty jews' fault. "Do a research" and stop being a bunch of ignorant, hateful cunts. Learn -your place- in this conflict. That's on the sideline. Assholes of foreign countries campaigning for a particular side in the Israeli/Palestine conflict have done nothing but worsen the problem.

And for what? It's as if this entire deplorable situation is some sort of morbid entertainment for you people. Cheering for which side "deserves more", cheering on families getting driven from their homes or worse yet, killed. While you don't even know the circumstances, you don't know the people and you sure as hell aren't involved in the conflict either personally or via the collective you live in. Yet "judging" people who live thousands of miles away embroiled in a civil war of sorts with a shitload of grey area in which, after 60 years of fighting, both parties have a rightful claim to the lands they inhabit.

I fucking hate these Israel/Palestine threads. If you care so much about "the cause" of the Palestinians go join Hamas and get involved, if you're not planning to do so then shut your trap. It's not your place to say shit or to decide what's "fair". Especially you Dilbert.... comparing Gaza to the Warsaw ghetto, that's the sort of asinine bullshit I can't stand.

FEOS wrote:

You're mixing the burden of the argument now. At issue was the fact that the Israelis have allowed non-Jewish members of their society to live there and participate. The Pals have stated they will not. Once the Pals have their own nation, the ones living in Israel can either stay and claim Israeli citizenship, or they can move to Palestine. It's pretty straightforward.

No. I pinned the blame on the Palestinians for a specific issue, not for the entirety of the breakdown.

In the talks I referenced, (Camp David, IIRC), Israel is the only side that brought anything to the table. All the PA bought was walking away.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-10-17 02:01:14)

FEOS wrote:

Based on the assumption they would move to Palestine...

The Israeli response as stated by Shlomo Ben-Ami, then Israel's Minister of Foreign Relations who participated in the talks, was "we can't accept the demand for a return to the borders of June 1967 as a pre-condition for the negotiation."

Netanyahu:"I do not know if the near future would have allowed us to achieve a better deal, or a deal at all, since it is very likely that this window of opportunity created in these circumstances would have finally closed, and we wouldn't have freed Gilad at all," he added.

Abu Obeida, spokesperson for Hamas' military wing confirmed Tuesday the prisoner exchange deal between Hamas and Israel to secure the release of Gilad Shalit.
According to Obeida, the deal that was reached is different from previous proposals, as it is the first one to take place "according to Hamas' terms", and will secure the release of Israeli Arab prisoners in both Jerusalem and Israel who are serving life sentences.

If captive Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit is freed in the prisoner-exchange deal with Hamas that prompted an emergency Israeli Cabinet session, it will raise two immediate questions: Which side finally acceded to the other's demands after years of fruitless negotiations since Shalit was captured in a June 2006 raid along the Israel-Gaza border? And what took so long to get here?

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu offered some hints about the first issue in a hastily called news conference shortly before going into the Cabinet meeting late at night on Oct. 11.

This deal, he suggested, was the best Israel was going to get, so if Israel was ever going to recover Shalit, it had to happen now.

"With everything that is happening in Egypt and the region, I don't know if the future would have allowed us to get a better deal - or any deal at all for that matter," Netanyahu said on Israeli television. "The window appeared following fears that collapsing Mideast regimes and the rise of extremist forces would make Gilad Shalit's return impossible."

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-10-17 04:52:58)

rdx-fx wrote:

cdailey2142 wrote:

I say we just let them fight it out and the winner takes all. Why should we give a rats ass who get's this shitty little piece of land! Don't we have bigger fish to fry in the world?

We have. 
Twice.
Palestinians keep wanting a do-over.

Personally, I'd rather see Saudi Arabia and Iran deal with each other directly.

Shocking wrote:

stupid propaganda posters.... "eluded Israeli control", that line is hilarious. Yes! They're out to oppress the poor arab victims... who did nothing to aggravate the situation, nop nothing at all. It's the dirty jews' fault. "Do a research" and stop being a bunch of ignorant, hateful cunts. Learn -your place- in this conflict. That's on the sideline. Assholes of foreign countries campaigning for a particular side in the Israeli/Palestine conflict have done nothing but worsen the problem.

And for what? It's as if this entire deplorable situation is some sort of morbid entertainment for you people. Cheering for which side "deserves more", cheering on families getting driven from their homes or worse yet, killed. While you don't even know the circumstances, you don't know the people and you sure as hell aren't involved in the conflict either personally or via the collective you live in. Yet "judging" people who live thousands of miles away embroiled in a civil war of sorts with a shitload of grey area in which, after 60 years of fighting, both parties have a rightful claim to the lands they inhabit.

I fucking hate these Israel/Palestine threads. If you care so much about "the cause" of the Palestinians go join Hamas and get involved, if you're not planning to do so then shut your trap. It's not your place to say shit or to decide what's "fair". Especially you Dilbert.... comparing Gaza to the Warsaw ghetto, that's the sort of asinine bullshit I can't stand.