Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5556

Samuel Kunz, 88, allegedly served Hitler's Third Reich in the Belzec camp in occupied Poland during World War Two.

He is number three on a most wanted list of ex Nazis.

Kunz was charged after prosecutors said he served as a guard from January 1942 to July 1943 where it is claimed he helped exterminate Jews.

He is also accused of the shooting a total of ten Jews in two other incidents.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne … z0uzVfYWx4

I'm sorry but am I the only one who thinks that a lowly prison guard should not be held legally or morally responsible for the deaths of the Jewish people at the camp he was guarding? Even if he had not worked as a guard there, someone else would have and the Jews would have still been killed so you can't really blame him for it. He didn't plan or order the Holocaust.

Kunz, whose family is German, was born in August 1921 on Russia's Volga River and joined the Red Army, claims Klaus Hillenbrand, a German expert who has written several books on the Nazi period.

But during World War Two he was captured by the Germans and given the choice of either staying at a prisoner of war camp or cooperating with the Nazis, said Hillenbrand.
He wasn't even a full hard line Nazi party supporter, he was just a kid in his early 20's who didn't want to rot away in a POW camp after getting drafted into the Red Army. I can't help finding this case to be a complete waste of time and resources to be honest.
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5229|foggy bottom
poor nazi
Tu Stultus Es
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6441
this is what happens when you let pro-israel, zionist, revanchist lobby groups, politicians and public sentiment interfere with the due course to a fair trial and for justice to be fairly and reasonably administered. results that are made to please a political or social group, or to appease a majority of people with the example being made of one unlucky individual. undoubtedly a shit decision but... i guess it keeps the public happy. there's also a consideration in judicial precedent to consider the 'public good and utility' of a court-case decision: relying on utilitarian principles to consider how a judgement would effect every-day public life and opinion, the judge could have arrived at the conclusion that giving a nazi a modest sentence would cause great public upset.

pretty hard to defend, though.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina
Yeah...  I'm not defending what he did, but I think 99% of us would have done the same in his position.
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6551|the dank(super) side of Oregon
it was pretty common back then for conscripts to bounce from one army to another to stay alive. 

https://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q82/mechanix202/japanese_dday.jpg

this Korean kid was pressed into the Japanese army, then captured and impressed by the Soviets, then the Germans and was captured by allied forces During D-Day.

it sounds like this guy ended up in the wrong place.  Unless there's evidence that he was Josef Mengela's right hand man, just let it go.

Last edited by Reciprocity (2010-07-28 23:44:34)

krazed
Admiral of the Bathtub
+619|6750|Great Brown North
i have a question

what would have happened to the guard/guards family if he refused the position?
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6677|67.222.138.85
It's real fuckin easy to defend, being a member of a political party is not illegal and following military orders does not make you legally responsible for what you are doing.
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6780|Nårvei

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

It's real fuckin easy to defend, being a member of a political party is not illegal and following military orders does not make you legally responsible for what you are doing.
Are you serious?
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5208|Cleveland, Ohio

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

and following military orders does not make you legally responsible for what you are doing.
erm.......no
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6780|Nårvei

@OP.

Many German soldiers volunteered for guard duty, many German soldiers was more than willing to do what they did ... so to plainly dismiss this guy's involvement is stupidity ... likewise to judge him without a trial ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX

krazed wrote:

i have a question

what would have happened to the guard/guards family if he refused the position?

OP wrote:

But during World War Two he was captured by the Germans and given the choice of either staying at a prisoner of war camp or cooperating with the Nazis
Being a Russian POW in the hands of the Germans was virtually a death sentence.

His choice was work for the Nazis or face probable death.
Unless he was a Nazi cheerleader and not just a guard then I'd say forget it at this point. If he did go above and beyond his minimum duty then fine, prosecute him.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-07-29 01:17:38)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

eleven bravo wrote:

poor nazi
Was he a Nazi, or did he just work for them? At this point, isn't it a bit goofy to waste resources on this crap? Is Israel going to hunt down their descendants next?
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6687
Guard duty in a death camp aint exactly the same as being in the army... You gotta volunteer for that shit and even pass an ideological test afaik.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
max
Vela Incident
+1,652|6538|NYC / Hamburg

Just let it go. You're not prosecuting the soviets that raped and killed their way through the civilian population or the Allies responsible for the bombing campaigns against civilians or shooting of surrendered prisoners. Time to pardon everyone and move on.
once upon a midnight dreary, while i pron surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of ' hot  xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, " give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6591|London, England
Don't expect to see Germans in courts for killing all sorts of other people. Gays/Roma/Disabled people etc...  nope, only Jews

Most people aren't even aware of the non-Jew atrocities
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6490|Πάϊ

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

following military orders does not make you legally responsible for what you are doing.
lol
ƒ³
krazed
Admiral of the Bathtub
+619|6750|Great Brown North

max wrote:

Just let it go. You're not prosecuting the soviets that raped and killed their way through the civilian population or the Allies responsible for the bombing campaigns against civilians or shooting of surrendered prisoners. Time to pardon everyone and move on.
but we're the good guys
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6490|Πάϊ

max wrote:

Just let it go. You're not prosecuting the soviets that raped and killed their way through the civilian population or the Allies responsible for the bombing campaigns against civilians or shooting of surrendered prisoners. Time to pardon everyone and move on.
Maybe this is a bit one-sided, I don't know. But 60 years is such a short amount of time considering what happened.



btw just finished reading "The Third Reich At War" by Richard J. Evans - if anyone's interested in a detailed account of what the Germans did during the war, that's the book to go for.
ƒ³
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6622|USA

Macbeth wrote:

Samuel Kunz, 88, allegedly served Hitler's Third Reich in the Belzec camp in occupied Poland during World War Two.

He is number three on a most wanted list of ex Nazis.

Kunz was charged after prosecutors said he served as a guard from January 1942 to July 1943 where it is claimed he helped exterminate Jews.

He is also accused of the shooting a total of ten Jews in two other incidents.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne … z0uzVfYWx4

I'm sorry but am I the only one who thinks that a lowly prison guard should not be held legally or morally responsible for the deaths of the Jewish people at the camp he was guarding? Even if he had not worked as a guard there, someone else would have and the Jews would have still been killed so you can't really blame him for it. He didn't plan or order the Holocaust.

Kunz, whose family is German, was born in August 1921 on Russia's Volga River and joined the Red Army, claims Klaus Hillenbrand, a German expert who has written several books on the Nazi period.

But during World War Two he was captured by the Germans and given the choice of either staying at a prisoner of war camp or cooperating with the Nazis, said Hillenbrand.
He wasn't even a full hard line Nazi party supporter, he was just a kid in his early 20's who didn't want to rot away in a POW camp after getting drafted into the Red Army. I can't help finding this case to be a complete waste of time and resources to be honest.
Was he GUARDING prisoners, or was he KILLING prisoners? If he was killing them then he is guilty.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

Mekstizzle wrote:

Don't expect to see Germans in courts for killing all sorts of other people. Gays/Roma/Disabled people etc...  nope, only Jews

Most people aren't even aware of the non-Jew atrocities
No kidding...  They've definitely hijacked the issue...  especially in America.  Some of our history courses would make you think only Jews were killed by the Nazies.
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5229|foggy bottom
poor guy who worked as a death camp guard who worked for the nazis
Tu Stultus Es
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5229|foggy bottom

Turquoise wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

Don't expect to see Germans in courts for killing all sorts of other people. Gays/Roma/Disabled people etc...  nope, only Jews

Most people aren't even aware of the non-Jew atrocities
No kidding...  They've definitely hijacked the issue...  especially in America.  Some of our history courses would make you think only Jews were killed by the Nazies.
sounds like a cackylacky education
Tu Stultus Es
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6439

Turquoise wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

Don't expect to see Germans in courts for killing all sorts of other people. Gays/Roma/Disabled people etc...  nope, only Jews

Most people aren't even aware of the non-Jew atrocities
No kidding...  They've definitely hijacked the issue...  especially in America.  Some of our history courses would make you think only Jews were killed by the Nazies.
Yeah, but if people knew that the Socialist and Communist parties were the first groups sent to Dachau, then it look silly for people to say that Obama is both a Nazi and a Marxist.
cdailey2142
Flesh Peddler
+14|5033
If he was just a guard and had to take orders from Nazi officers he should not be the one held accountable.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

eleven bravo wrote:

poor guy who worked as a death camp guard who worked for the nazis
We're not 47th in education for nothing...  lol

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