Are they one in the same anymore? I think not. Am I wrong?
China's government, yes. China's people, no.
Communism can be defined as a system of government in addition to an economic structure.
China has a Communist government but a mostly capitalistic economy.
China has a Communist government but a mostly capitalistic economy.
No, you are not.
The are a quasi form of it, global and capitalistic in nature, intertwined with foreign bankers and nations.
There too, there is a power elite and class warfare.
The are a quasi form of it, global and capitalistic in nature, intertwined with foreign bankers and nations.
There too, there is a power elite and class warfare.
The classic failure of communism, it doesn't really work that well unless the whole world is communist, thus forcing you to adopt capitalist ideals.
They are not communist. There hasn't been a truly communist government ever imo.
They are a totalitarian continuation of the old dynastic empires of China replaced by a politburo and the party.
They are a totalitarian continuation of the old dynastic empires of China replaced by a politburo and the party.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Aren't they a Capitalist Dictatorship?
They aint communist.
Deng Xiao ping changed their direction when he said “To get rich is glorious.”
They have been trying to do that ever since..... With a good deal of success.
Deng Xiao ping changed their direction when he said “To get rich is glorious.”
They have been trying to do that ever since..... With a good deal of success.
That's a very succint way of putting it.They are a totalitarian continuation of the old dynastic empires of China replaced by a politburo and the party.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
That.Flecco wrote:
They are not communist. There hasn't been a truly communist government ever imo.
They are a totalitarian continuation of the old dynastic empires of China replaced by a politburo and the party.
ƒ³
They are more akin to Nazi Germany from an economic perspective. Totalitarian command spiced up with a bit of free marketry.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-07-07 09:35:13)
What do you lot mean by Communist government, you don't have to be a single party totalitarian state dictatorship or whatever to be communist. There's a few examples of democratically elected Communist parties out there. It happens believe it or not
They're still symbolically a Commie state, words like People's Republic and CCP etc.. and there's still lots and lots of state owned companies there. Including lots of state owned media. Seems like there's still alot of commie stuff in the country, or at least heavy socialism... it's gonna be awhile before mainland China becomes like Hong Kong or Macau in terms of ...how shit is?
They're still symbolically a Commie state, words like People's Republic and CCP etc.. and there's still lots and lots of state owned companies there. Including lots of state owned media. Seems like there's still alot of commie stuff in the country, or at least heavy socialism... it's gonna be awhile before mainland China becomes like Hong Kong or Macau in terms of ...how shit is?
I've been to mainland China and I've been to Hong Kong. In the cities there is not a blind bit of difference between the two. Countryside is another matter.Mekstizzle wrote:
What do you lot mean by Communist government, you don't have to be a single party totalitarian state dictatorship or whatever to be communist. There's a few examples of democratically elected Communist parties out there. It happens believe it or not
They're still symbolically a Commie state, words like People's Republic and CCP etc.. and there's still lots and lots of state owned companies there. Including lots of state owned media. Seems like there's still alot of commie stuff in the country, or at least heavy socialism... it's gonna be awhile before mainland China becomes like Hong Kong or Macau in terms of ...how shit is?
No, it can't.Turquoise wrote:
Communism can be defined as a system of government in addition to an economic structure.
I meant in the way the laws are and stuff, like how HK is still a special region that isn't quite the same as the rest of proper commie China. I dunno, since HK's independence it's not been fully integrated into China, it's still different, if you get meCameronPoe wrote:
I've been to mainland China and I've been to Hong Kong. In the cities there is not a blind bit of difference between the two. Countryside is another matter.Mekstizzle wrote:
What do you lot mean by Communist government, you don't have to be a single party totalitarian state dictatorship or whatever to be communist. There's a few examples of democratically elected Communist parties out there. It happens believe it or not
They're still symbolically a Commie state, words like People's Republic and CCP etc.. and there's still lots and lots of state owned companies there. Including lots of state owned media. Seems like there's still alot of commie stuff in the country, or at least heavy socialism... it's gonna be awhile before mainland China becomes like Hong Kong or Macau in terms of ...how shit is?
They still have their own autonmous government and laws and systems etc.. and their capitalist developed economy is different to the rest of China
Last edited by Mekstizzle (2009-07-07 11:28:30)
Currently reading some very, very light Chinese history. Interesting, to say the least. Especially the bribes and brides policies.Spark wrote:
That's a very succint way of putting it.They are a totalitarian continuation of the old dynastic empires of China replaced by a politburo and the party.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
There are some differences but not really any economic/consumerist/infrastructural ones as far as I could see. The most striking differences are that free speech is permitted in HK and the place is spotless. There were Tiananmen Square massacre and anti-Mao placard holding protesters at HK ferry terminal for instance and no police imposing on them. HK is no democracy though - it's party preference Donald Tsang at the helm with suffrage incredibly limited (as it was under the Brits too it should be added).Mekstizzle wrote:
I meant in the way the laws are and stuff, like how HK is still a special region that isn't quite the same as the rest of proper commie China. I dunno, since HK's independence it's not been fully integrated into China, it's still different, if you get me
They still have their own autonmous government and laws and systems etc.. and their capitalist developed economy is different to the rest of China
Yes, it can. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CommunismFlaming_Maniac wrote:
No, it can't.Turquoise wrote:
Communism can be defined as a system of government in addition to an economic structure.
"In political science, the term "communism" is sometimes used to refer to communist states, a form of government in which the state operates under a one-party system and declares allegiance to Marxism-Leninism or a derivative thereof, even if the party does not actually claim that it has already reached communism."
To be more specific, China is a communist state.
Doesn't Hong Kong govern itself to some extent? I mean more than other Chinese provinces.
For the most part, yes.M.O.A.B wrote:
Doesn't Hong Kong govern itself to some extent? I mean more than other Chinese provinces.
To be correct, that would quote would state: "In political science, the term "communism" is sometimes incorrectly used to refer to communist states..."Turquoise wrote:
Yes, it can. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CommunismFlaming_Maniac wrote:
No, it can't.Turquoise wrote:
Communism can be defined as a system of government in addition to an economic structure.
"In political science, the term "communism" is sometimes used to refer to communist states, a form of government in which the state operates under a one-party system and declares allegiance to Marxism-Leninism or a derivative thereof, even if the party does not actually claim that it has already reached communism."
To be more specific, China is a communist state.
A communist state has nothing to do with communism. It is almost always quite the opposite.
Yeah just like the layperson refers to the US as a hybrid capitalist/socialist economy and democratic republic, not a capitalist democracy. Just like the terms 'liberal' and 'conservative' are used correctly every time by every member of the public. There is such thing as common usage. It's kind of pedantic to pick apart place holders, don't you think?Flaming_Maniac wrote:
To be correct, that would quote would state: "In political science, the term "communism" is sometimes incorrectly used to refer to communist states..."Turquoise wrote:
Yes, it can. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CommunismFlaming_Maniac wrote:
No, it can't.
"In political science, the term "communism" is sometimes used to refer to communist states, a form of government in which the state operates under a one-party system and declares allegiance to Marxism-Leninism or a derivative thereof, even if the party does not actually claim that it has already reached communism."
To be more specific, China is a communist state.
A communist state has nothing to do with communism. It is almost always quite the opposite.
Then again, this debate is kind of, "what constitutes 'communism' as commonly defined?" Well FM, according to you there is one absolute term, end of. I think you should go around correcting each person one by one until the whole world understands.
That being said, China never really was communist. Ascribing an adherence to Marxist/Leninist ideals to foment a populist uprising, while at the same time creating a strong centralized authoritarian one-party government doesn't automatically make you a communist regime, and it never really has. We in the west tend to ascribe the term "communist state" to regimes created after WW2 as some sort of emotive reaction to vilify an alternative structure of government (albeit a poorly derived government).
There is a big fucking difference between calling something that is primarily capitalist capitalist for the sake of simplicity and making the utterly incorrect and confusing statement that a government is communist.
For example, before you go off with your shit about how it's a pointless difference that doesn't matter in the grand scheme, of things, and how everything I say and do is an exercise in futility, I give you a post in this very thread. A post that is the most worthwhile thing that could ever happen in BF2S.
Another:
These posts don't make any sense because of an extreme discrepancy in the definition of the most important word we're talking about. You can't have a debate when the terms are being so grossly misused.
If you want to call the Soviets communist during a discussion of WWII tactics, fine. When we are talking extremely specifically about communism and forms of government, the difference is paramount.
So I say again, with the same respect and kindness as before, fuck off Ken.
For example, before you go off with your shit about how it's a pointless difference that doesn't matter in the grand scheme, of things, and how everything I say and do is an exercise in futility, I give you a post in this very thread. A post that is the most worthwhile thing that could ever happen in BF2S.
This doesn't make any sense.{M5}Sniper3 wrote:
China's government, yes. China's people, no.
Another:
Of course there hasn't a communist government does not exist.Flecco wrote:
There hasn't been a truly communist government ever imo.
These posts don't make any sense because of an extreme discrepancy in the definition of the most important word we're talking about. You can't have a debate when the terms are being so grossly misused.
If you want to call the Soviets communist during a discussion of WWII tactics, fine. When we are talking extremely specifically about communism and forms of government, the difference is paramount.
So I say again, with the same respect and kindness as before, fuck off Ken.
Oh come off it, Flaming. Everytime you get in one of these bullshit rants, you just make yourself look like an ass.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
There is a big fucking difference between calling something that is primarily capitalist capitalist for the sake of simplicity and making the utterly incorrect and confusing statement that a government is communist.
For example, before you go off with your shit about how it's a pointless difference that doesn't matter in the grand scheme, of things, and how everything I say and do is an exercise in futility, I give you a post in this very thread. A post that is the most worthwhile thing that could ever happen in BF2S.This doesn't make any sense.{M5}Sniper3 wrote:
China's government, yes. China's people, no.
Another:Of course there hasn't a communist government does not exist.Flecco wrote:
There hasn't been a truly communist government ever imo.
These posts don't make any sense because of an extreme discrepancy in the most important word we're talking about. You can't have a debate when the terms are being so grossly misused.
If you want to call the Soviets communist during a discussion of WWII tactics, fine. When we are talking extremely specifically about communism and forms of government, the difference is paramount.
So I say again, with the same respect and kindness as before, fuck off Ken.
Save your anal retentiveness for something less semantic.
k, you kids have fun answering whether China is communist or not while fucking up the definition of communism. It facilitates good dialogue while promoting understanding.