BF2S Forums Interview with the Vampire

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

I remember it like this. When 9-11 happened, myself and everyone I knew blamed one group, who later told the world that they did it and every since our government has been rounding them up except for the leaders. I never heard from anyone who thought or believed that Saddam was behind or involved with 9-11.

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

Please remember why we fought Saddam.....he invaded Kuwait!!!!!!!

Bush did say that saddam had links to al-qaeda. The whole US administration were all about saddam harboring terrorists, and financing them.
Kuwait was not a big deal back then. I really cant see how kuwait has something to do with the invasion of iraq 2003.

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

The US liberated Kuwait ....No fly zones were set up

yeah, but the US did allow saddam to use his choppers and jets to bomb the shia-rise back to stone age?

usmarine wrote:

Beduin wrote:

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

I remember it like this. When 9-11 happened, myself and everyone I knew blamed one group, who later told the world that they did it and every since our government has been rounding them up except for the leaders. I never heard from anyone who thought or believed that Saddam was behind or involved with 9-11.

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

Please remember why we fought Saddam.....he invaded Kuwait!!!!!!!

Bush did say that saddam had links to al-qaeda. The whole US administration were all about saddam harboring terrorists, and financing them.
Kuwait was not a big deal back then. I really cant see how kuwait has something to do with the invasion of iraq 2003.

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

The US liberated Kuwait ....No fly zones were set up

yeah, but the US did allow saddam to use his choppers and jets to bomb the shia-rise back to stone age?

you people seem to forget what the iraqis in the INC said.

Nope

They fucked you americans.

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

Yes, some other idiotic politicians tried to tie the two...even many democrats and don't forget the campaign rhetoric that Gore and the democratic party was spewing that Bush was too soft on Saddam and spewing the same rhetoric about Saddam and WMD. Remember that?? Let's also not forget the dozens of international intelligence agencies who thought the same.  The international community was just as much to blame as Bush or anyone else.

Which intelligence agencies?

As far as I've ever been able to tell, no intelligence agencies saw any sort of link between Saddam and Al Qaeda. There are very clear reports that are now declassified from the Pentagon and from the CIA, both in 2002 that were extremely clear that there was no link.

The JIC got in a lot of trouble for fabricating evidence (though eventually got cleared and the BBC were the ones to get in trouble for breaking the story), after they plagiarised a students university coursework and used it as an intelligence report. The PM made and then retracted several statements about Saddam having WMDs, most notably the 45 minute claim.

Hans Blix, the chief weapons inspector, said it was "highly unlikely" Saddam had any WMDs remaining and accused the US and UK governments of dramatising the threat.

So the US intelligence agencies had evidence there was no link between Al Qaeda and Saddam, yet the administration told the public the opposite (and according to polls, 30-50% believed them) and kept asking the inteligence agencies to provide them with evidence of the link. The British intelligence agencies made up evidence, made spurious claims proven to be untrue before the war began and the person who leaked all the information committed suicide under suspicious circumstances - though of course the following inquiry cleared anyone (except the BBC, the reporter lost his job, as did the DG) of any wrong doing. UN officials allege that they were bugged, they presume by the US over the period of build up to the war.

It's all far too suspicious to just come out and say the intelligence agencies said it - because there is clear evidence that the British and American governments were telling the intelligence agencies what to put in the reports. No other intelligence agencies seemed to agree. The UN opposed the war utterly. The weapons inspections teams opposed the war. Virtually every country around the world opposed the war. How can you blame it on the international community when the blame so obviously lies solely with the US and UK.

Bertster7 wrote:

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

Yes, some other idiotic politicians tried to tie the two...even many democrats and don't forget the campaign rhetoric that Gore and the democratic party was spewing that Bush was too soft on Saddam and spewing the same rhetoric about Saddam and WMD. Remember that?? Let's also not forget the dozens of international intelligence agencies who thought the same.  The international community was just as much to blame as Bush or anyone else.

Which intelligence agencies?

As far as I've ever been able to tell, no intelligence agencies saw any sort of link between Saddam and Al Qaeda. There are very clear reports that are now declassified from the Pentagon and from the CIA, both in 2002 that were extremely clear that there was no link.

The JIC got in a lot of trouble for fabricating evidence (though eventually got cleared and the BBC were the ones to get in trouble for breaking the story), after they plagiarised a students university coursework and used it as an intelligence report. The PM made and then retracted several statements about Saddam having WMDs, most notably the 45 minute claim.

Hans Blix, the chief weapons inspector, said it was "highly unlikely" Saddam had any WMDs remaining and accused the US and UK governments of dramatising the threat.

So the US intelligence agencies had evidence there was no link between Al Qaeda and Saddam, yet the administration told the public the opposite (and according to polls, 30-50% believed them) and kept asking the inteligence agencies to provide them with evidence of the link. The British intelligence agencies made up evidence, made spurious claims proven to be untrue before the war began and the person who leaked all the information committed suicide under suspicious circumstances - though of course the following inquiry cleared anyone (except the BBC, the reporter lost his job, as did the DG) of any wrong doing. UN officials allege that they were bugged, they presume by the US over the period of build up to the war.

It's all far too suspicious to just come out and say the intelligence agencies said it - because there is clear evidence that the British and American governments were telling the intelligence agencies what to put in the reports. No other intelligence agencies seemed to agree. The UN opposed the war utterly. The weapons inspections teams opposed the war. Virtually every country around the world opposed the war. How can you blame it on the international community when the blame so obviously lies solely with the US and UK.

Actually, I am speaking of WMD and yes many agencies were fooled and believed he had WMD and he did actually use those types of weapons against his neighbors and his own people (yes, other countries sold this stuff to him, including the US). I am not talking about intelligence as far as a link to Al-Qaeda. That was a stretch made later by politicians on BOTH sides of the aisle.  There were two gulf wars, liberation of Kuwait and then the attack because Saddam refused to cooperate with UN resolutions for years. Some politicians and agencies believed that weapons could get into the wrong hands if they were sold or technology was given to terrorists. Even Saddam himself in the OP news item said that he WANTED other countries to believe how powerful he MIGHT be to the detriment of his own country and he did everything he could to keep the veil of secrecy up and gave people the thought that he was hiding something.

I know Saddam was not friendly with Al-Qaeda but when people have a common enemy, sometimes they will cooperate. The North Korean situation is very similar except North Korea isn't afraid to talk trash and back it up with proof that they have those types of weapons. North Korea's main industry is selling weapons, selling the technology..etc.  Do you think they care who buys it?

By the way, Saddam was speaking to people who had captured him. Do you think he is going to sit there and not paint rosey pictures on his behalf. I find it funny that now we are taking his word as gospel and truth. Who really knows what he is saying is true, he was a prisoner trying to save his own butt....look trials after WW2....most pointed blame every where else except themselves. Why would Saddam be any different in the same situation.

I don't disagree with many things said in this post...I just find it funny and hypocritical when people in these forums claim to have known all along what was happening. Politicians, intelligence agencies, leaders..etc, etc. were confused and mislead. Yes, some knew more than the rest but it was a huge debate and history has already been made. I find it hilarious that now, guys in BF2 forum claim to have known all the answers long ago and can say "I told you so" when they didn't know shit...especially because Saddam said so. If you knew so much....then you guys should run for office and save the world because you should all know about the North Korean situation, clearly what is going to happen and when. Better start campaigning so you can fix it. Somehow, you guys have access to all this information, agencies, photos, briefs, taps, spies etc.....what are you waiting for....tell Obama what to do.

CameronPoe wrote:

So the details of FBI interviews with Saddam following his capture have been released and it transpires that:

- Saddam didn't readmit weapons inspectors until so late in the day because he didn't want Iran to know how militarily weak Iraq had become. "By God, if I had such weapons, I would have used them in the fight against the United States."

- Saddam described Osama as a 'zealot' with whom he had no links and with whom he had never co-operated.

So what do ye all think of these interesting insights?

Okay, so let's pull out and give the country back to Saddam-  Oh, we killed him?  Oops, my bad.  Mia culpa and all of that.

Okay, you want people (who, exactly?  Those of us who ordered the invasion?) to admit that the US invaded Iraq for reasons now proven to be false?  I am sure that has never happened before- oh, wait;  the Spanish/American war (and that is just pulled from my head).  I am sure that if you look back over the history of warfare, invasion for trumped up reasons has to have happened a whole hell of a lot.  It seems to be a politician's favortie tactic.  I mean, fighting for nearly a decade in Europe because a prince got assassinated?

The point is, what do you think the US is doing in Iraq at this point?  For the last few years, the point of operations in Iraq was to form a stable nation and government so we can get out.  Sure, we could have just smashed the machine and pulled out, but that would be irresponsible of us (enter people taking this sentance out of context and joking about how invading them must have been responsible here).  We smashed the machine, and we need to rebuild it into some semblance of order before we leave.  To do otherwise would be prolonging the suffering of the people in the area as various factions would fight to gain control. 

The funny thing is, all those people gallantly fighting the oppressors (the US, of course) have prolonged the US occupation of Iraq.  If they had stayed quiet, we would have left sooner.  They have been attacking the Iraqi infrastructure, so it would take more time to rebuild Iraq and trying to prove that the current Iraq government was incapable of protecting them (from who, exactly?).

I laugh at those who still say this was a war for oil.  The oil 'crisis' we had a couple years back should have proven the lie to that argument.  The US has spent billions and billions of dollars rebuilding Iraq, while taking nothing in return.  We have been trying to rebuild that which we had destroyed.  The 'Iraqi' insurgents, on the other hand,  have been destroying all they can and killing Iraqis who are trying to make the nation a peaceful and stable place. 

And yet we are still the bad guys of this piece.

@DeathBecomesYu: I for one never said I knew what was going to happen but the scenario as it happened left many of the guesses/predictions I and many others made very close to what went down ...

@imortal: It's the least you can do to mend what you broke ...

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

How does that help the current situation now or in other places in this world?

Start thinking different, change the way you look at the world, not black and white only... at least listen to your friends?

Last edited by Beduin (2009-07-03 13:37:10)

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

Varegg wrote:

@DeathBecomesYu: I for one never said I knew what was going to happen but the scenario as it happened left many of the guesses/predictions I and many others made very close to what went down ...

@imortal: It's the least you can do to mend what you broke ...

I could play that game too. Let us predict what might happen in North Korea, or all this spending by the government, or what might happen in Iran from now on. Of course, people can talk about what happens and be right sometimes. There are predictions about everything for good and bad results. But again, you nor I have seen or heard any of the things that officials saw back them that led many people to go to war or caused other countries to join in.

Like I said it is highly hypocritical to listen to the link in this OP and then claim they "knew it" because you are doing the exact same thing you claim others did back then. You listened to some words of a captured dictator and then took it as gospel...but when people back in the day listened to the evidence, pics, taps etc, etc...then everyone now screams that they shouldn't have taken that stuff at face value. You see?

It is pretty easy to jump on the bandwagon when it fits your agenda or beliefs. When I say "you" I mean people in general who jumped on the Saddam bandwagon in this thread. Saddam said so, so it must be true. oops...then stop screaming at people who believed the evidence back then.

Bottom line, it happened, it can not be redone. There is no "reset" button and honestly, we will have to wait and see what happens 20 years or so down the line to know the true effects of what was done, mistakenly or not. It is nonsense to sit here and try to prove to others that what you predicted is right or wrong...I don't care. Does it make you feel better just to be right? How does that help the current situation now or in other places in this world?

Of course there is no reset button, nobody ever claimed it was either ... the point is when we talk about the second gulf war it is that the US invaded without backing from the UN security council ... a backing you most likely would have gotten at some point, and with that backing the concent from a greater group of allies ...

If it makes me feel better to be right? ... of course it does ... what doesn't make me feel better is the dead troops wasted in Iraq because some powerhungry dipshit in the whitehouse wanted a war in his term of office and made the most outrages lies to make it happen ...

And nobody jumped on the Saddam bandwagon, that your second great mistake in that post ... to be very clear, nobody liked Saddam and nobody trusted anything he said ... we may be liberal but we're not idiots ...

Beduin wrote:

usmarine wrote:

Varegg wrote:

It's the least you can do to mend what you broke ...

please.  ask the kurds what they think.  they have now what was broken before we got there.

lolz... they have nothing. I remember the kurds were a bit hostile towards US when iran and turkey were bombing the crap out of them few months ago? are you talking about the the myth of kurdistan?

Yeah ... I think he means the kurds that Turkey have been fighting with US supplied weapons for God knows how long ...

Do Americans ever question why the ME hates you so much? ... it isn't that long ago you were friends with most of the arab world ...

Varegg wrote:

Do Americans ever question why the ME hates you so much?

no actually we do not care.

we came to the aid of kuwait and albanians.  but, thats just meh right?  pffft.  what a joke some of your comments are.

ya i know kuwait was just about oil.  i know i know.  uh huh.  save it.

Varegg wrote:

@DeathBecomesYu: I for one never said I knew what was going to happen but the scenario as it happened left many of the guesses/predictions I and many others made very close to what went down ...

@imortal: It's the least you can do to mend what you broke ...

I agree.  That is why I still support the troops being there.  It is our responsibility to get Iraq back on its feet.  However, we catch nothing but grief for doing exactly that.  Apparently, the world would rather us pull out now and watch the carnage that we suspect would then ensue.

usmarine wrote:

that article is crap.

you wont more articles?

lol albanians?  why?  cuz they were muslims being slaughtered?