The Vatican is pretty much a money-making empire.CameronPoe wrote:
I thought the modern enlightened world had moved beyond that. I guess the Vatican doesn't really fit that bill though granted. If a majority of a nation want to be ruled theocratically then having a religion-based state is their prerogative but we live in pluralist representative democracies. I guess I fell into the trap of regarding the Vatican as a 'western institution' which of course couldn't be further from the truth.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Politics is inseparable from religion. When a belief system essentially dictates your perspective on life, it is impossible to remove it from your idea of social implementation.
In western civilisation the norm is to rule secularly and pluralistically and that religion is on your own time.
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Were you raised Catholic by any chance?Flaming_Maniac wrote:
The Pope is religion for Catholics. It's his duty to define right and wrong, to shepherd his herd.Turquoise wrote:
True, but there's a difference between letting religion guide your stances on politcal issues and using religion to promote your stances.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Politics is inseparable from religion. When a belief system essentially dictates your perspective on life, it is impossible to remove it from your idea of social implementation.
Just Cameron and the BBC.Turquoise wrote:
I'm just surprised that any educated person would put much stock in the declarations of a figurehead.
And the millions of adherents of particular religions that blindly follow the lead of these massively influential geriatric dinosaur throw-backs to a bygone era. Which is kind of my point.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Just Cameron and the BBC.Turquoise wrote:
I'm just surprised that any educated person would put much stock in the declarations of a figurehead.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-05-13 16:07:18)
Not entirely, I think you fell into the trap of regarding to much of the world as abstract "western". Religion, especially in mediterenean and eastern european countries, is just much more imbedded in everyday society. On the one hand this means they are much more secular, as it functions more as culture than as religion as a pure set of beliefs, on the other hand religion does pop up at every corner. When you attend a church service in a monastery on mount Parnassos, you expect it to be rather, well strict. It is not, it is much more open than any Catholic or protestant service I've witnessed. People come and go, do the occasional smarttalk, though service continues for hours. You can walk in as an outsider and some old lady will show you around a bit, priest won't even give you a look when you join for communion.CameronPoe wrote:
I guess I fell into the trap of regarding the Vatican as a 'western institution' which of course couldn't be further from the truth.
Israel has a poor deivision between synagoge and state, Imperial Russia more or less = Byzantium 2.0 and Federal Russia = 3.0 beta, in Greece the ecclesiastical clergy are the government on regional scale (marriages, births, all are officially registered by bishops) and while we in Holand officially have a clear division between church and state, our crownprince was not allowed to marry his current wife unless his children were raised according to his Calvinist religion, which I think would be something fully left to the child's parents if there was a true dvision between church and state.
That said, I think Benedict is fail. Throughout history there have been good and bad popes; John Paul was a good one, also making the first steps towards modernization, and I'm inclined to see this one as a very bad one and that is not just because he is a Nazi. We should be happy the pope does no longer have as much influence as in say the 1300's.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/72988/the-dai … ?c=187:431
Sorry international folks..
but you should really know how to get around it by now
Sorry international folks..
but you should really know how to get around it by now
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Lots of "purpose" for the vatican in the USA then? LOL AM I RITE?!!!Turquoise wrote:
The Pope served more of a purpose when the average person was grossly uneducated and illiterate. .
Politicians manipulate the masses. Religion manipulates the masses. I guess religious figures should be free to make political statements, since much of the same stuff is discussed by politicians.CameronPoe wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8047134.stm
Despite the very proper and agreeable sentiments of what the Pope is calling for here I find it to be a little off for religious figures to be making political statements. Should religious figures not just stick to spirituality and morality and leave politics out? What say you?
I would be mortified if religious leaders abandoned their principles and stayed away from political oddities like abortion.
pope is a nazi
I think religious leaders should be allowed to voice their views on political issues, but they should not try to play a political leadership role.
The State should not play a role in the religion such as setting up a state church.
The State should not play a role in the religion such as setting up a state church.
Seperation of Church and State
He's also a head of state.CameronPoe wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8047134.stm
Despite the very proper and agreeable sentiments of what the Pope is calling for here I find it to be a little off for religious figures to be making political statements. Should religious figures not just stick to spirituality and morality and leave politics out? What say you?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/fall98/original.htmlNarupug wrote:
Seperation of Church and State
Section 3 explains the intent of "Separation of Church & State"
A 'state' I walked across in 20 minutes. It's not similar to any other state in the world - it's effectively a plaza around which priests and cardinals reside. But you're technically correct.FEOS wrote:
He's also a head of state.CameronPoe wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8047134.stm
Despite the very proper and agreeable sentiments of what the Pope is calling for here I find it to be a little off for religious figures to be making political statements. Should religious figures not just stick to spirituality and morality and leave politics out? What say you?
Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-05-15 10:41:06)
It's also one hell of a tax haven.CameronPoe wrote:
A 'state' I walked across in 20 minutes. It's not similar to any other state in the world - it's effectively a plaza around which priests and cardinals reside. But you're technically correct.FEOS wrote:
He's also a head of state.CameronPoe wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8047134.stm
Despite the very proper and agreeable sentiments of what the Pope is calling for here I find it to be a little off for religious figures to be making political statements. Should religious figures not just stick to spirituality and morality and leave politics out? What say you?
Your impression of size (thankfully) does not define a state.CameronPoe wrote:
A 'state' I walked across in 20 minutes. It's not similar to any other state in the world - it's effectively a plaza around which priests and cardinals reside. But you're technically correct.FEOS wrote:
He's also a head of state.CameronPoe wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8047134.stm
Despite the very proper and agreeable sentiments of what the Pope is calling for here I find it to be a little off for religious figures to be making political statements. Should religious figures not just stick to spirituality and morality and leave politics out? What say you?
There's no "technically" about it.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
I say anyone can voice their opinion on political issues. Obviously, if the people listening are Catholic they will pay attention and follow the Popes wishes if they can. If they are not Catholic, then they won't. So who cares.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
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