mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|7067|d
A far-right Dutch politician will attempt to defy a government ban on his entering Britain today, amid a diplomatic row over his right to visit.

Geert Wilders, an anti-Islamist, will fly in to Heathrow to attend a screening of his film Fitna at the House of Lords hosted by the UKIP peer Lord Pearson of Rannoch.

The authorities would have to prevent him physically, he said. “I’ll see what happens at the border. Let them put me in handcuffs.”

The film features verses from the Koran with images of terrorist attacks in New York, London and Madrid and calls on Muslims to remove “hate-preaching” verses from the text. Lord Pearson said that the screening would go ahead with or without Mr Wilders.

The Home Office decision to refuse Mr Wilders entry on account of his views provoked Maxime Verhagen, the Dutch Foreign Affairs Minister, to call David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, to protest at the decision.

“The fact that a Dutch parliamentarian is refused entry to another EU country is highly regrettable,” Mr Verhagen said. He revealed his conversation with Mr Miliband via a posting on his Twitter website.

Mr Wilders, 45, is being denied entry under an EU law that allows member states to turn away individuals from other member states if they are deemed to constitute a threat to public policy, security or health. Since 2005, 270 people have been excluded on suspicion of being a threat to national security or fostering extremism, including 79 “preachers of hate”. Muslims including Lord Ahmed support the Government’s decision to deny Mr Wilders entry. A spokesman for the House of Lords declined to comment on the allegation.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/p … 712737.ece


Heard about this a day or two ago on "the wright stuff"  (UK TV). Considering 79 people have been banned for the same reasons, i think he should stay banned also.

Personally I am still surprised his film got an audience in the House of Lords, with or without him being there. WTF do people in the house want to debate about in relation to the film's content....Is Islam related to terrorism ? Should the Muslims change the Quran ? come on, gimme a fukin break.

History on the Vid itself;
The exact nature of Fitna's release had been uncertain up until its official launch. This was due to concerns of the legality of its content and anticipated acts of terrorism. The Dutch press centre Nieuwspoort offered to release the film, on the condition that Wilders would pay for the increased security required during the press conference and the weeks after it. Wilders declined to do so, citing prohibitive costs.

Having failed to successfully negotiate a transmission of the film with any Dutch television station, Wilders created a website, www.fitnathemovie.com, on March 5, 2008 with the intention of releasing the film. However, this was subsequently suspended (see below).

On March 22, the Dutch Muslim Broadcasting Association (NMO) offered to air the film, on the proviso that it could be previewed for any possible illegal material and that Wilders would take part in a debate with proponents and opponents afterwards. Wilders declined, quoted as saying "No way, NMO."

Wilders released the film on March 27, 2008 on the video website Liveleak.[15] The following day, Liveleak removed the film from their servers after receiving threats which they described as being "of a very serious nature".The film soon appeared on various BitTorrent and video sharing websites.

Liveleak reinstated Fitna on March 30, after security upgrades offering increased protection to its staff had been implemented.Soon after, Wilders withdrew the film[21] to make some minor edits, such as removing the copyrighted Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons and the photograph of Salah Edin, a rapper wrongly identified as Mohammed Bouyeri, in response to lawsuits.Kurt Westergaard, the cartoonist, was pleased with the news and believed the lawsuit would be dropped.
A revised edition, containing a new cartoon in place of the contentious one, and a corrected picture of Bouyeri, was released on Liveleak on April 6.
Anywhoz here's the vid:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=216_1207467783

And here a counter vid to fair things up:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=70a_1207232770


Re the actual vid. Seen it all before.

Re the counter vid. Lul at using that vid from News of the World .
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7065

i find it sad the brits ban this guy yet allow hate speech by muslims in mosques.  and last time i checked wilders didnt bomb their subway, muslims who practice islam did.  sad sad state of affairs when the whole would seems bent on appeasing one group and one group only.
mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|7067|d

usmarine wrote:

i find it sad the brits ban this guy yet allow hate speech by muslims in mosques.
I assume you are talking about the following dudes:
https://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/05_01/10hamzaES_468x350.jpg

https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2007/05/25/PREACHER.jpg
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6924|London, England
Isn't that black guy a yank, ban all americans

Personally, if other people have been banned for similar things (I'm sure of which, alot are not only Islam related) then it makes sense to do the same for this guy, politician or not.

i find it sad the brits ban this guy yet allow hate speech by muslims in mosques.  and last time i checked wilders didnt bomb their subway, muslims who practice islam did.  sad sad state of affairs when the whole would seems bent on appeasing one group and one group only.
I agree with you about the mosque things, although I think we're starting to sort them out now. I think. But if we're banning this guy under a law in which alot of other people have been banned because of, and like I said, not just for Islam related things, then it only makes sense to make this guy apply to the same law, it just happens to be that this guy is an MP and the religion in question is Islam, so some people are getting riled up and presumably want this guy to receive special treatment.

Take the US for example, they've banned lots of people from not entering their country due to religous reasons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio … ct_of_1998) and it wasn't just for Islam related things
Beduin
Compensation of Reactive Power in the grid
+510|6053|شمال

usmarine wrote:

...yet allow hate speech by muslims in mosques....blabla.
You're not exactly Mr. Current Affairs...Where have you been the last, say 4-5 years?
الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6803|so randum
lolbai

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7885918.stm

plus the guy was invited over by someone from ukip ffs
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6924|London, England

usmarine wrote:

i find it sad the brits ban this guy yet allow hate speech by muslims in mosques.  and last time i checked wilders didnt bomb their subway, muslims who practice islam did.  sad sad state of affairs when the whole would seems bent on appeasing one group and one group only.
We're not appeasing anyone: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7695317.stm

Some people only ever like to look at the things the way they want to see it, they want to see it as everything the UK/Europe/The World does as appeasement for Islam yet refuse to look at the things we do to crazy Muslims (like ban them, or bomb them) because it doesn't fit their sense of ideology that the Muslims r takin ova da werld. Some of these fucking eggheads can't even look at things in a balanced way what's the point

Frankly it pisses me off when people throw around the appeasement word, we don't fucking have people getting killed and maimed everyday in Afghanistan for no reason, it seems like some people will call everything short of genocide as appeasement, they need to calm down

Last edited by Mekstizzle (2009-02-12 08:32:49)

rammunition
Fully Loaded
+143|6165
As above, it also pisses me off when great Britain is accussed of appeasement.


The link above also mentioned the 200+ people who were also kicked out due to similar reasons to the dutch guy, where was the accusations then??,

You can always rwly in certain humans from certain countries to jump to conclutoons without looking at facts
rdx-fx
...
+955|6895

rammunition wrote:

You can always rwly in certain humans from certain countries to jump to conclutoons without looking at facts
So, to be clear, which humans from which certain countries are you referring to?

I see that statement directly above your signature with statements like "Fuck the USA" and "Yankee go Home", and I think perhaps I may inadvertently misconstrue your statement.  Lest I be accused of being the overly simplistic 'Ugly American', I'll politely ask for clarification rather than form any opinion based on my own comprehension of the statements.

or.. wait!  you're doing that new postmodern hipster 'ironic sarcasm' trick of saying one thing, implying reference to an ironic second thing, and thereby making a third point entirely, all  in one terse witty statement.

hrm.. no, that's not quite it.

Think i'll just go with the old-school analysis and simply state "Pot, meet Kettle"
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6859

usmarine wrote:

i find it sad the brits ban this guy yet allow hate speech by muslims in mosques.
lol - unfamiliar with the radical Finsbury Park preacher whose ass they shipped out to Lebanon permanently then I take it...
JahManRed
wank
+646|6931|IRELAND

A representative from the Islamic council was on the news saying "let him in" He said that just as debate is needed about why Muslims used the Koran to justify blowing themselves and others up, debate is also needed on this film and its maker.
rdx-fx
...
+955|6895

JahManRed wrote:

A representative from the Islamic council was on the news saying "let him in" He said that just as debate is needed about why Muslims used the Koran to justify blowing themselves and others up, debate is also needed on this film and its maker.
A little more of this would be a good start.
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|6974|UK
Wilders can go fuck himself.  And stay out cunt face.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6708|North Carolina
Well, it would appear that the U.K. has entered the censorship race against Australia and the Netherlands.

They seem to have quite an edge here, considering they've managed to ban a foreign diplomat because of his views and just proposed imprisoning one of their own diplomats for saying something anti-Semitic.

Europeans really do have a different definition of the freedom of speech, don't they?...
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6924|London, England
Upon further reading on Dutchie and his film, I'd like the Muslim community to actually try and address his points rather than go and start roiting and threatening with terrorism. I mean, this is a mofuckin civilised society here, bitches, if you think this guy is wrong, then you go and tell the world he is wrong with your evidence and lay out your side of the story like he has his, that's what pisses me off about Muslims. Instead of defending their religion via peaceful means and using their academic knowledge and brains, they instead go and start protesting and rioting and getting offended.

This guy says various acts of terrorism is justified in the Koran and provides evidence I assume, he also probably states some of the atrocities that Muhammad committed (atrocities - debatable, I think so, you may not, go ahead and argue that with me instead of flaming and rioting) and frankly, I'd like to see the rational Muslim response rather than the idiotic common one you see from them
mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|7067|d

Mekstizzle wrote:

Upon further reading on Dutchie and his film, I'd like the Muslim community to actually try and address his points rather than go and start roiting and threatening with terrorism. I mean, this is a mofuckin civilised society here, bitches, if you think this guy is wrong, then you go and tell the world he is wrong with your evidence and lay out your side of the story like he has his, that's what pisses me off about Muslims. Instead of defending their religion via peaceful means and using their academic knowledge and brains, they instead go and start protesting and rioting and getting offended.

This guy says various acts of terrorism is justified in the Koran and provides evidence I assume, he also probably states some of the atrocities that Muhammad committed (atrocities - debatable, I think so, you may not, go ahead and argue that with me instead of flaming and rioting) and frankly, I'd like to see the rational Muslim response rather than the idiotic common one you see from them
I missed the rioting and threatening part. Any who;

A spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain described Wilders as "an open and relentless preacher of hate".

"We have no problem with the challenge of criticisms to our faith, but the film that will be screened by Lord Pearson and Baroness Cox is nothing less than a cheap and tacky attempt to whip up hysteria against Muslims," he said.
ALSO

On March 22, the Dutch Muslim Broadcasting Association (NMO) offered to air the film, on the proviso that it could be previewed for any possible illegal material and that Wilders would take part in a debate with proponents and opponents afterwards.[12][13] Wilders declined, quoted as saying "No way, NMO."[14]
I don't think there is anything wrong with debate, BUT lets face it. This film is blatantly bollocks.
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7019

Mekstizzle wrote:

Isn't that black guy a yank, ban all americans

Personally, if other people have been banned for similar things (I'm sure of which, alot are not only Islam related) then it makes sense to do the same for this guy, politician or not.

i find it sad the brits ban this guy yet allow hate speech by muslims in mosques.  and last time i checked wilders didnt bomb their subway, muslims who practice islam did.  sad sad state of affairs when the whole would seems bent on appeasing one group and one group only.
I agree with you about the mosque things, although I think we're starting to sort them out now. I think. But if we're banning this guy under a law in which alot of other people have been banned because of, and like I said, not just for Islam related things, then it only makes sense to make this guy apply to the same law, it just happens to be that this guy is an MP and the religion in question is Islam, so some people are getting riled up and presumably want this guy to receive special treatment.

Take the US for example, they've banned lots of people from not entering their country due to religous reasons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio … ct_of_1998) and it wasn't just for Islam related things
holy shit you're right... that's Eddie Murphy... he used to be a comedian here...lol

and you guys can try to explain it all away... but there is hypocrisy... In the US we have a lot of muslims that are very nice people and just want to live in peace... you guys have quite a few nut jobs that you keep dismissing as no big deal... if they are no big deal... then say that this dutch guy is no big deal...

Last edited by [TUF]Catbox (2009-02-13 02:15:57)

Love is the answer
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6859
What a stupid move by Britain. It's just foisted more media focus on that attention-seeking idiot. They don't stop holocaust deniers at the gates, why him?
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6885|SE London

mafia996630 wrote:

usmarine wrote:

i find it sad the brits ban this guy yet allow hate speech by muslims in mosques.
I assume you are talking about the following dudes:
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/0 … 68x350.jpg

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Gua … EACHER.jpg
Haven't they both been locked up?

In part for hate speech in mosques....
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6708|North Carolina

Bertster7 wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:

usmarine wrote:

i find it sad the brits ban this guy yet allow hate speech by muslims in mosques.
I assume you are talking about the following dudes:
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/0 … 68x350.jpg

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Gua … EACHER.jpg
Haven't they both been locked up?

In part for hate speech in mosques....
So let me get this straight...  the solution to hate speech is arresting people.  I think Islamic extremists and people like Wilders are scumbags, but what have they done to garner bans or prosecution?

You guys are really going down a slippery slope right now.
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6841|Long Island, New York

Turquoise wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Haven't they both been locked up?

In part for hate speech in mosques....
So let me get this straight...  the solution to hate speech is arresting people.  I think Islamic extremists and people like Wilders are scumbags, but what have they done to garner bans or prosecution?

You guys are really going down a slippery slope right now.
Seriously...I'm all for locking someone up for making criminal threats or something, but just for talking shit? Pretty weak.
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6950
Banning people for their beliefs (as long as they aren't hurting anyone) is pretty fucking sad.
mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|7067|d

Bertster7 wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:

usmarine wrote:

i find it sad the brits ban this guy yet allow hate speech by muslims in mosques.
I assume you are talking about the following dudes:
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/0 … 68x350.jpg

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Gua … EACHER.jpg
Haven't they both been locked up?

In part for hate speech in mosques....
My point!
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6708|North Carolina
A much healthier way of dealing with hateful people is addressing them in person in an open debate.

It's pretty easy to show that Wilders is wrong to assume all Muslims are evil and to show that fanatical clerics are idiots, but to prosecute or ban them only legitimizes their message to certain people.

It's better to view extremists out in the open, because if you force them underground, they tend to do very bad things.  As long as they are able to speak freely, venting is usually the most they do.

In short, censorship of free speech is not the answer.  I just hope the U.K. doesn't have to learn this the hard way.  It looks like the Netherlands might very soon.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6885|SE London

Poseidon wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:


Haven't they both been locked up?

In part for hate speech in mosques....
So let me get this straight...  the solution to hate speech is arresting people.  I think Islamic extremists and people like Wilders are scumbags, but what have they done to garner bans or prosecution?

You guys are really going down a slippery slope right now.
Seriously...I'm all for locking someone up for making criminal threats or something, but just for talking shit? Pretty weak.
So you don't consider telling your followers to kill all non-Muslims is making criminal threats?

I don't know that much about the 2nd guy, but Abu Hamza is a nasty piece of work. Look him up.

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