Wow, there's a lot of blindness I'm gonna have to reply to in this thread. Before I do, however, I would like to say the following: I am not a noob when it comes to planes. I am close to it, but not a noob. Seeing as I am damn near a noob and yet can own with a jet/plane, that alone is Evidence #1. Yes, my case is against jets. As they are currently, they are the largest imbalance in the game. Somebody else already said why - it's because if your team doesn't have any good jet flyers and the enemy has one that is, the enemy jet is literally unstoppable. For the time being, aircraft counter-measures are useless against planes and jets.
Here's a sad fact: the MEC/China FAV is the most effective anti-air weapon, especially against helicopters (gasp! I took the time to type 'helicopters'!). Anti-Aircraft Missiles are quite literally useless - their lock-on capabilities are non-existent. If a friendly flies closer to you than the enemy you have already "locked on" to, the missiles will hit the friendly.
Think about how slow a helicopter moves, in comparison with jets. Now if it's quite difficult to shoot down ever helicopters with missiles, don't you think that jets going 800km/h are going to be considerably harder? Especially when after-burning up to over 1000km/h?
The Phalaynx on the Essex is crap versus helicopters. I'd say it's great versus planes since it takes so few shots to kill one. BUT - the Phalaynx's armor is equivalent to that of a box of cereal, and any intelligent pilot (including helicopter pilots) immediately goes for the Phalaynx. Since the ship can't move, it's always right where the pilot is expecting it to be, and they can line up before it's even in view. The person in the AA has to watch not only 360-degrees on the horizontal plane, but on the vertical as well, since they never know where a plane will come from. (Two things that would make more sense: The Phalaynx ought to have it's own wide-area radar. Why it doesn't is beyond me. Second, the Phalaynx, in real life, is FULLY AUTOMATED! No human intervention required in most cases!)
Now, back to missiles. If a stationary ground AA site launches two missiles at a plane, all the pilot has to do to avoid them is make a sharp turn - the flares are not even needed. (EA has said this will be not necessarily "fixed" as it should, but the lock-on "improved" in version 1.2)
Don't even bother with mobile AA - I think I've seen maybe 5 aircraft (including helicopters) get shot down with those in my 200+ hrs of playing. They have no armor, the guns suck, and the missiles are the same.
However, I have managed to bring repeat offenders by shooting down helicopters with an FAV. I'll generally kill them before they kill me, even when they see me when I see them! I've even shot down a couple planes with FAVs! Why they make better AA than anything else in the game is beyond me...
Now, on to individual replies.
stryyker- "with tanks and transport, all you do is point and click, and kills appear, a monkey with half its frontal lobe can do that"
Wrong. I shouldn't have to explain why, but I will.
With any ground vehicle, you must be on the lookout for: a) Other vehicles APC and larger, b) TOW/HJ-8 sites, c) AT Infantry, d) AT Mines, e) C4 clusters, and getting away from Spec Ops who are too close to the vehicle, f) aircraft (planes/helos), and g) artillery strikes (albeit these rarely kill tanks or APCs, but it is at least likely.
With a jet or plane, you only have to be aware of: a) other planes, b) AA missiles. The latter can be easily avoided - THAT is what takes a monkey with half a frontal lobe.
BladeRunner - "The vehicles piss me off, but it seems if you waste someone with any weapon in BF2 they stick the noob label on it. Batter them with a 203 and it's a noob tube. Batter them sith a sponge and it would become the noob sponge."
Sidetrack: Yes, people would put "n00b" on anything if it pisses them off. I've been called a noob for knifing people while they were trying to shoot me. Go figure. Anyhow, it's just a matter of skill requirement. The GLs do take some, but minimal. They are probably the "noobiest" weapon on foot.
Mason4Assassin444 - "Jets take NO skill."
I'm sorry to say, that even as anti-jet as I am, you are wrong. They take some skill - just the least amount of anything in the game besides calling an artillery strike (To All: Which also takes skill, believe it or not. If you don't know why, then you can truly be called a "n00b".)
=[4th]=SlayThem - "There's THREE different spawns for the USMC in Wake Island. Each spawn has a way of getting to the mainland. Nice try."
Two of which are on the Essex, effectively making it one. Boats are likely to become jet cannon fodder, and anything on deck is likely to become a heap of twisted metal as soon as it spawns. The third (the island spawn), shouldn't be called a spawn point. It's only there to repair the artillery. On top of everything else, that little island is almost always camped by people in FAVs or Type 98s on the mainland. Getting a boat off of it is next to impossible as a result of TWO imballances; mainland defense, and aircraft. You can claim that all you have to do to take care of people in FAVs is to snipe them. That's all fine and dandy, provided you can cap a point with your bolt-action while forty-six launched grenades land around you. If there's a tank camping you, then you have no recourse. You'll run out of AT missiles in most cases before being able to destroy such a ranged target. Nice try.
Mason4Assassin444 - I won't quote, I'll just say this - AT missiles should easily take out Humvees (kudos to anyone who can actually identify the word "humvee" properly without having to look it up), as well as Vodniks and NJ2016s. Realisticly, though, they should take down helicopters in one shot, too. That's probably why they don't take out Hummers in one shot. I also agree that shoulder-fired stingers should definitely be available. If not as part of a pack, at least as a kit you can pick up from some location on the map (several locations, anyhow).
Hyper - "flying commander...you should be shot"
Notice how nobody else is playing on that server. It's likely he was by himself, and the flag capture bar appeared, but wouldn't move from either side. Considering the number of AA emplacements and enemy aircraft on Oman, capping a flag is impossilbe as long as not all of the other 31 players are jars of Miracle Whip.
I2elik - "I get quite annoyed by players saying the US is at a disadvantage, for one thing, they get 2 F-35's, a Black hawk, 3 spawn points, a Cobra Attack Heli, and alot of boats, now if I hear one more prick say that they're at a disadvantage, I'll snap."
Well, then I hope you're made like a Goody comb, because the USMC is at a disadvantage on Wake. All counter-arguments: the Chinese get 2 J-10s (smaller than an X35 and white, so they blend in with the sky better), a Z-8 transport chopper, 5 spawn points, a Z-10 attack helicopter (which, both the Z-10 and Mi-28 are far superior to the Cobra in armament), don't get boats, but they have no need and they're useless anyhow, and they get tanks to begin with. On a logical scale, all of those counter-arguments effectively destroyed your post; however, I do believe the imbalance to be minimal - I frequently see the USMC winning on that map.
phynfrhwk - "Ive found that even a boat can get to where you need it to go with two j-10s coming after you."
This is obviously a rare instance, and in that, you were being chased by pilots with no skill. It only takes ONE shot from a plane to kill the people in a boat.
Now, all arguments aside for the time being, I should point out the following: the next patch (v1.2) is due in the month, and it will do these very important things:
1) Lower the hitpoints of all aircraft.
2) Make missile lock-ons better.
Ok, one more argument - all of you that say that the planes are not an imbalance, you have just been smited by the gods (ok, so EA hasn't bought the title to Heaven yet, sue me). If the developer agrees with the rest of us, you are wrong.
Then again, it's a game, so every viewpoint is always an opinion. Plus, the jets don't kill the game so bad that we've all stopped playing it, so it hasn't gotten (or wasn't to begin with) too bad. It's like Counter-Strike - people have been playing it for over seven years, and they've been bitching about it even longer... but they're still playing.
(I can't help but continually think "Arguing about BF2 is like the special olympics... even if you win, you're still retarded"... and yes, I include myself in that.)
EDIT: Holy hell, I didn't realize I had typed up that much... my post just BECAME page 3 unto itself... o.0
Here's a sad fact: the MEC/China FAV is the most effective anti-air weapon, especially against helicopters (gasp! I took the time to type 'helicopters'!). Anti-Aircraft Missiles are quite literally useless - their lock-on capabilities are non-existent. If a friendly flies closer to you than the enemy you have already "locked on" to, the missiles will hit the friendly.
Think about how slow a helicopter moves, in comparison with jets. Now if it's quite difficult to shoot down ever helicopters with missiles, don't you think that jets going 800km/h are going to be considerably harder? Especially when after-burning up to over 1000km/h?
The Phalaynx on the Essex is crap versus helicopters. I'd say it's great versus planes since it takes so few shots to kill one. BUT - the Phalaynx's armor is equivalent to that of a box of cereal, and any intelligent pilot (including helicopter pilots) immediately goes for the Phalaynx. Since the ship can't move, it's always right where the pilot is expecting it to be, and they can line up before it's even in view. The person in the AA has to watch not only 360-degrees on the horizontal plane, but on the vertical as well, since they never know where a plane will come from. (Two things that would make more sense: The Phalaynx ought to have it's own wide-area radar. Why it doesn't is beyond me. Second, the Phalaynx, in real life, is FULLY AUTOMATED! No human intervention required in most cases!)
Now, back to missiles. If a stationary ground AA site launches two missiles at a plane, all the pilot has to do to avoid them is make a sharp turn - the flares are not even needed. (EA has said this will be not necessarily "fixed" as it should, but the lock-on "improved" in version 1.2)
Don't even bother with mobile AA - I think I've seen maybe 5 aircraft (including helicopters) get shot down with those in my 200+ hrs of playing. They have no armor, the guns suck, and the missiles are the same.
However, I have managed to bring repeat offenders by shooting down helicopters with an FAV. I'll generally kill them before they kill me, even when they see me when I see them! I've even shot down a couple planes with FAVs! Why they make better AA than anything else in the game is beyond me...
Now, on to individual replies.
stryyker- "with tanks and transport, all you do is point and click, and kills appear, a monkey with half its frontal lobe can do that"
Wrong. I shouldn't have to explain why, but I will.
With any ground vehicle, you must be on the lookout for: a) Other vehicles APC and larger, b) TOW/HJ-8 sites, c) AT Infantry, d) AT Mines, e) C4 clusters, and getting away from Spec Ops who are too close to the vehicle, f) aircraft (planes/helos), and g) artillery strikes (albeit these rarely kill tanks or APCs, but it is at least likely.
With a jet or plane, you only have to be aware of: a) other planes, b) AA missiles. The latter can be easily avoided - THAT is what takes a monkey with half a frontal lobe.
BladeRunner - "The vehicles piss me off, but it seems if you waste someone with any weapon in BF2 they stick the noob label on it. Batter them with a 203 and it's a noob tube. Batter them sith a sponge and it would become the noob sponge."
Sidetrack: Yes, people would put "n00b" on anything if it pisses them off. I've been called a noob for knifing people while they were trying to shoot me. Go figure. Anyhow, it's just a matter of skill requirement. The GLs do take some, but minimal. They are probably the "noobiest" weapon on foot.
Mason4Assassin444 - "Jets take NO skill."
I'm sorry to say, that even as anti-jet as I am, you are wrong. They take some skill - just the least amount of anything in the game besides calling an artillery strike (To All: Which also takes skill, believe it or not. If you don't know why, then you can truly be called a "n00b".)
=[4th]=SlayThem - "There's THREE different spawns for the USMC in Wake Island. Each spawn has a way of getting to the mainland. Nice try."
Two of which are on the Essex, effectively making it one. Boats are likely to become jet cannon fodder, and anything on deck is likely to become a heap of twisted metal as soon as it spawns. The third (the island spawn), shouldn't be called a spawn point. It's only there to repair the artillery. On top of everything else, that little island is almost always camped by people in FAVs or Type 98s on the mainland. Getting a boat off of it is next to impossible as a result of TWO imballances; mainland defense, and aircraft. You can claim that all you have to do to take care of people in FAVs is to snipe them. That's all fine and dandy, provided you can cap a point with your bolt-action while forty-six launched grenades land around you. If there's a tank camping you, then you have no recourse. You'll run out of AT missiles in most cases before being able to destroy such a ranged target. Nice try.
Mason4Assassin444 - I won't quote, I'll just say this - AT missiles should easily take out Humvees (kudos to anyone who can actually identify the word "humvee" properly without having to look it up), as well as Vodniks and NJ2016s. Realisticly, though, they should take down helicopters in one shot, too. That's probably why they don't take out Hummers in one shot. I also agree that shoulder-fired stingers should definitely be available. If not as part of a pack, at least as a kit you can pick up from some location on the map (several locations, anyhow).
Hyper - "flying commander...you should be shot"
Notice how nobody else is playing on that server. It's likely he was by himself, and the flag capture bar appeared, but wouldn't move from either side. Considering the number of AA emplacements and enemy aircraft on Oman, capping a flag is impossilbe as long as not all of the other 31 players are jars of Miracle Whip.
I2elik - "I get quite annoyed by players saying the US is at a disadvantage, for one thing, they get 2 F-35's, a Black hawk, 3 spawn points, a Cobra Attack Heli, and alot of boats, now if I hear one more prick say that they're at a disadvantage, I'll snap."
Well, then I hope you're made like a Goody comb, because the USMC is at a disadvantage on Wake. All counter-arguments: the Chinese get 2 J-10s (smaller than an X35 and white, so they blend in with the sky better), a Z-8 transport chopper, 5 spawn points, a Z-10 attack helicopter (which, both the Z-10 and Mi-28 are far superior to the Cobra in armament), don't get boats, but they have no need and they're useless anyhow, and they get tanks to begin with. On a logical scale, all of those counter-arguments effectively destroyed your post; however, I do believe the imbalance to be minimal - I frequently see the USMC winning on that map.
phynfrhwk - "Ive found that even a boat can get to where you need it to go with two j-10s coming after you."
This is obviously a rare instance, and in that, you were being chased by pilots with no skill. It only takes ONE shot from a plane to kill the people in a boat.
Now, all arguments aside for the time being, I should point out the following: the next patch (v1.2) is due in the month, and it will do these very important things:
1) Lower the hitpoints of all aircraft.
2) Make missile lock-ons better.
Ok, one more argument - all of you that say that the planes are not an imbalance, you have just been smited by the gods (ok, so EA hasn't bought the title to Heaven yet, sue me). If the developer agrees with the rest of us, you are wrong.
Then again, it's a game, so every viewpoint is always an opinion. Plus, the jets don't kill the game so bad that we've all stopped playing it, so it hasn't gotten (or wasn't to begin with) too bad. It's like Counter-Strike - people have been playing it for over seven years, and they've been bitching about it even longer... but they're still playing.
(I can't help but continually think "Arguing about BF2 is like the special olympics... even if you win, you're still retarded"... and yes, I include myself in that.)
EDIT: Holy hell, I didn't realize I had typed up that much... my post just BECAME page 3 unto itself... o.0
Last edited by =VEN= Squirrel (2006-02-01 17:21:54)
