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2008-09-05 05:38:34
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6114|eXtreme to the maX
Limit medical malpractice suits to a sensible level.
Cut medical pay - Doctors earn way too much - by training more of them.
Tax people by weight - fat people get ill much more often.

Plus you already spend 671bn on health so you're 'only' really looking for another 813bn
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2008-09-05 05:55:23
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6715|67.222.138.85

Dilbert_X wrote:

Cut medical pay - Doctors earn way too much - by training more of them.
How do you propose to do that? Can't just tell Mr. Marx we need more doctors.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Tax people by weight - fat people get ill much more often.
So why not just make everyone pay for their own health care and cut out the middleman? You can't socialize medicine and then so broadly discriminate.
2008-09-05 06:10:34
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6114|eXtreme to the maX
How do you propose to do that? Can't just tell Mr. Marx we need more doctors.
Duh - Train more of them, reduce the training costs, change the system.
So why not just make everyone pay for their own health care and cut out the middleman?
Because not all illnesses discriminate, anyway I was only being semi-serious.
Nevertheless fat people are a colossal burden on the system, tax sugar and fat the same as tobacco.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2008-09-05 06:16:26
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6715|67.222.138.85

Dilbert_X wrote:

How do you propose to do that? Can't just tell Mr. Marx we need more doctors.
Duh - Train more of them, reduce the training costs, change the system.
So you have no plan. You can just will it into being?

Dilbert_X wrote:

So why not just make everyone pay for their own health care and cut out the middleman?
Because not all illnesses discriminate, anyway I was only being semi-serious.
Nevertheless fat people are a colossal burden on the system, tax sugar and fat the same as tobacco.
lol
2008-09-05 06:25:07
GateKeeper{NL}
Member
+142|6377
Use the China system,

Exercise on the Localy red square, or the Neighbor watch is going after u.

the Party neighborhood is even going after people who sit too long @ there computer or console or whatever.
2008-09-05 09:43:30
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|6002|Truthistan

Miggle wrote:

Diesel_dyk wrote:

Did you know that when the US and Canada were negotiating the Free Trade agreement and NAFTA that the US was claiming that the Canadian health system gave Canada an unfair economic advantage and wanted Canada to get rid of it.

Universal health is more efficient and provides everyone with health care.

If Universal health care were implimented the losers would be insurance companies (who cares about those A$$holes), Wall street (no more health care stocks and who cares about those A$$holes), HMOs and some really greedy doctors who think of themselves as business men and not as healers (and who cares about those A$$holes)

The way I see it, the Republicans have always had a scorched earth policy against any group that supports democrats whether its unions or trial lawyers. And since insurance companies, wall street, HMOs and doctors have alligned themselves with the Republicans I could see some payback coming to those groups if the democrats get in both congress and the whitehouse.

Besides even big business like GM, Ford and other companies would like to have health care shifted to the government.
What happens to all those "A$$holes" jobs?
Some jobs should not exist in the first place

For example telemarketers... they are a scourge and an annoyance like a mosquito... those jobs simply should not exist.

now take a health insurance adjuster, perhaps a doctor whose job it is to deny claims of sick people and who gets bonuses based on the number of claims that are denied... not only are those people scum, they actually cause harm and kill people... those jobs should not exist. Better that those A$$holes sleep under a bridge with the homeless than to allow them to profit from causing people to suffer and die.
2008-09-05 09:54:16
PureFodder
Member
+225|6293

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Cut medical pay - Doctors earn way too much - by training more of them.
How do you propose to do that? Can't just tell Mr. Marx we need more doctors.
Allow foreign doctors to take tests in their own country to become fully qualified US doctors (medical ability AND language ability). Allow free market competition to do the rest.
2008-09-05 10:04:34
PureFodder
Member
+225|6293

Kmarion wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

What's worse?  A bureaucrat standing between you and your doctor?  Or a Profit seeking shareholder standing between you and your doctor?

Healthcare costs are the primary cause of bankruptcy in the richest nation in the world.  What's wrong with this picture?
Both are standing between you and your doctor. Europes bureaucracy does not compare with ours.. at all. Why in the hell would I put my health care in the hands of the worlds most inept and unproductive government in the world (federal debt, national debt, social security, etc)? If Europe can do it for them then have a ball. As a citizen of this country I can tell you that I have absolutely no confidence in Washington making this work.

Edit: I thought I was quoting PF .
But Medicare and medicaid have proven to be the least failing part of the US system. The US government has already proven itself to be superior to the private sector on this. The percentage admin costs of the private sector are 4 times larger than that of medicare.

The private medical industry is showing to be in far worse shape than social security.

I'd certainly agree with the people that say this isn't something that could be introduced tomorrow. It would need a long and well though out transition.
2008-09-05 10:16:59
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6609|132 and Bush

PureFodder wrote:

I'd certainly agree with the people that say this isn't something that could be introduced tomorrow. It would need a long and well though out transition.
Well at least we can agree there. A good portion of my reasoning is based on the fact that the we are fiscally bankrupt right now.

Have you read any news recently about Medicare/Medicaid? It's in horrible shape. http://news.google.com/news?q=medicaid& … amp;tab=wn
http://news.google.com/news?oe=utf-8&am … earch+News

Medicare and Medicaid are also administered by the state. On a national level the situation would be even more dire.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-09-05 11:35:39
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6589|SE London

Superior Mind wrote:

The number one problem with socialized medicine and welfare:
If we give to those who don't have much, what incentive do they have to rise above federal/state handouts?

We wouldn't switch to such a plan over night. It would have to come after a couple of decades of changing the way the nation spends and consumes.
Why not?
That's how it was introduced in the UK, overnight.

Diesel_dyk wrote:

If you take 10.6% of the budget
you can cut
* $276.4 billion (+2.9%) - Medicaid and other health related
* $394.5 billion (+12.4%) - Medicare

Equals 15.3%

These programs should be redundant under a universal health care system and these alone account for 15.3% of the budget given your figures

* $72.6 billion (+5.8%) - Veterans' benefits
* $586.1 billion (+7.0%) - Social Security

A portion of these programs that deal with healthcare costs would also become redundant, such as the costs for the VA hospitals and medical care of veterans. These expenditures should shift and be covered under a universal healthcare system.
Excellent points about the funding. Also tax increases in line with maybe 50% of what people pay already into health insurance schemes (or some such similar system) should easily cover the expense - and it wouldn't be a real tax rise, since everyone pays for their health insurance anyway.
I'm explaining this badly, but essentially I'm saying that, if the government can manage to do it cheaper than the private sector (which they probably can since the private sector have such huge profits), then everyone will be better off - barring employees of healthcare insurers.

PureFodder wrote:

But Medicare and medicaid have proven to be the least failing part of the US system. The US government has already proven itself to be superior to the private sector on this. The percentage admin costs of the private sector are 4 times larger than that of medicare.

The private medical industry is showing to be in far worse shape than social security.
This seems to suggest the the government could get it done cheaper than the private sector - pre-profit. Since the government wouldn't be making profit on the scheme, the savings SHOULD be even greater for everyone.
2008-09-05 12:30:01
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6609|132 and Bush

Most state run (like medicaid/medicare) programs are ran more efficiently than our National programs. That's why many of us would be ok with local medical assistance. I'm sure the individual states could introduce a program overnight also.

You guys are not comparing apples to apples.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-09-05 15:18:14
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6715|67.222.138.85

PureFodder wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Cut medical pay - Doctors earn way too much - by training more of them.
How do you propose to do that? Can't just tell Mr. Marx we need more doctors.
Allow foreign doctors to take tests in their own country to become fully qualified US doctors (medical ability AND language ability). Allow free market competition to do the rest.
LOL

I mean are you serious? Just throw the standards to shit?
2008-09-05 15:26:43
MGS3_GrayFox
Member
+50|6175

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:


How do you propose to do that? Can't just tell Mr. Marx we need more doctors.
Allow foreign doctors to take tests in their own country to become fully qualified US doctors (medical ability AND language ability). Allow free market competition to do the rest.
LOL

I mean are you serious? Just throw the standards to shit?
What standards? US medical standards are at best mediocre compared to Cuban, French and Romanian standards (not to say others).
2008-09-05 15:33:24
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6715|67.222.138.85

MGS3_GrayFox wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

PureFodder wrote:


Allow foreign doctors to take tests in their own country to become fully qualified US doctors (medical ability AND language ability). Allow free market competition to do the rest.
LOL

I mean are you serious? Just throw the standards to shit?
What standards? US medical standards are at best mediocre compared to Cuban, French and Romanian standards (not to say others).
I'm more concerned about the African countries.
2008-09-05 17:02:02
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6609|132 and Bush

MGS3_GrayFox wrote:

Cuban standards
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-09-06 02:13:07
PureFodder
Member
+225|6293

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

How do you propose to do that? Can't just tell Mr. Marx we need more doctors.
Allow foreign doctors to take tests in their own country to become fully qualified US doctors (medical ability AND language ability). Allow free market competition to do the rest.
LOL

I mean are you serious? Just throw the standards to shit?
Eh? I specifically said they'd have to pass tests to become fully qualified US doctors ie. the same ability as US doctors.

Just allow doctors that are qualified to the US's own standards to move to the US and become doctors. One of the main reasons that there is little competition from foreign doctors is they have to move to the US before they can take the test and therefore before they can have any idea as to whether they can get a job in the US. If they can take the full tests in their own country and therefore sort out a job before even going to the US it would greatly reduce the barriers to foreign competition.

The estimate is that if the pay for doctors can be brought down to just European levels, it would save $100 billion a year.
2008-09-06 04:51:43
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|6776
who cares what it costs.

DO IT.
2008-09-06 05:19:35
aerodynamic
FOCKING HELL
+241|5761|Roma
Wow imagine having 3 trillion € in your bank account.
You could spend spend and spend and not run out of money for like 500 years.
https://bf3s.com/sigs/8ea27f2d75b353b0a18b096ed75ec5e142da7cc2.png
2008-09-06 05:55:35
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6589|SE London

aerodynamic wrote:

Wow imagine having 3 trillion € in your bank account.
You could spend spend and spend and not run out of money for like 500 years.
Well, you'd be getting almost half a billion a day in interest, so yeah, it'd last pretty well.
2008-09-06 08:35:52
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6715|67.222.138.85

PureFodder wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

PureFodder wrote:


Allow foreign doctors to take tests in their own country to become fully qualified US doctors (medical ability AND language ability). Allow free market competition to do the rest.
LOL

I mean are you serious? Just throw the standards to shit?
Eh? I specifically said they'd have to pass tests to become fully qualified US doctors ie. the same ability as US doctors.

Just allow doctors that are qualified to the US's own standards to move to the US and become doctors. One of the main reasons that there is little competition from foreign doctors is they have to move to the US before they can take the test and therefore before they can have any idea as to whether they can get a job in the US. If they can take the full tests in their own country and therefore sort out a job before even going to the US it would greatly reduce the barriers to foreign competition.

The estimate is that if the pay for doctors can be brought down to just European levels, it would save $100 billion a year.
You said take tests in their own country; I assume this meant the medical degrees in there country necessary to become a doctor are good enough to transfer here.
2008-09-07 04:56:04
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6683|Canberra, AUS
I'm sure you if you get rid of that ridiculously large interest on the ridiculously large debt it could go a long way to financing.

Or... (prepares for flames) go for compulsary voting attendance and save a gigantic amount every few years (on getting the vote out)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2008-09-07 08:52:04
MGS3_GrayFox
Member
+50|6175

Kmarion wrote:

MGS3_GrayFox wrote:

Cuban standards
Uh, you do know that Cuba is one of the countries that produces the best doctors in the world, don't you?
2008-09-07 09:09:47
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6770

MGS3_GrayFox wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

MGS3_GrayFox wrote:

Cuban standards
Uh, you do know that Cuba is one of the countries that produces the best doctors in the world, don't you?
lulz

 

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