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usmarine
Banned
+2,785|5837

"One detainee told of being beaten with pipes and having a screwdriver rammed into his back. Another said interrogators tied his hands behind his back then lifted him into the air by his bound wrists."

No this is not gitmo, nor the IDF, this is something different.

Why no thread?  no outrage because it aint the US or Israel?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080728/ap_ … ns_torture
san4
The Mas
+311|5763|NYC, a place to live
Because everything the Palestinians do can be excused as an understandable reaction to Israeli oppression.
(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|5904|Grapevine, TX

san4 wrote:

Because everything the Palestinians do can be excused as an understandable reaction to Israeli oppression.
seriously?


you people really think that way?
13rin
Member
+977|5554

(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:

san4 wrote:

Because everything the Palestinians do can be excused as an understandable reaction to Israeli oppression.
seriously?


you people really think that way?
Yankees are nuts.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
ReTox
Member
+100|5574|State of RETOXification
Just goes to show that religion has nothing to do with what drives violence in the middle east... this is totally political.  It's about power and control, nothing more.
san4
The Mas
+311|5763|NYC, a place to live

(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:

san4 wrote:

Because everything the Palestinians do can be excused as an understandable reaction to Israeli oppression.
seriously?
you people really think that way?
Not me, but maybe some people who do will show up in this thread.
Ender2309
has joined the GOP
+470|5646|USA

(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:

san4 wrote:

Because everything the Palestinians do can be excused as an understandable reaction to Israeli oppression.
seriously?


you people really think that way?
your sarcasometer needs calibration.
JahManRed
wank
+646|5703|IRELAND

I'm confused. Is this a serious thread were we debate torture between the Palestinians. Or is it a whinging one liner thread?
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|5630
Mostly because these people are doing it to their own. That aside, it's debauched.

One item of note is that this phenomenon is not institutionalised:

"Abbas' prime minister, Salam Fayyad, acknowledged "shortcomings," but said human rights violations have decreased. "I'm not defending anyone, but I can assure you that we have treated flaws and don't allow violations. The upcoming reports will be better," Fayyad said.

In Gaza, Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum acknowledged "mistakes" were made by the Hamas forces, but said that unlike in the West Bank, violators were increasingly being punished."

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-07-30 01:16:52)

FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|5486|'Murka

So does that mean we shouldn't condemn the entirety of Fatah or the Pals, since they denounced the activity have dealt with the perpetrator?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|5630

FEOS wrote:

So does that mean we shouldn't condemn the entirety of Fatah or the Pals, since they denounced the activity have dealt with the perpetrator?
In the same manner that we can't condemn all Americans and Republicans (notably John McCain) for Guantanamo Bay, I guess so.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|5365|Éire

CameronPoe wrote:

FEOS wrote:

So does that mean we shouldn't condemn the entirety of Fatah or the Pals, since they denounced the activity have dealt with the perpetrator?
In the same manner that we can't condemn all Americans and Republicans (notably John McCain) for Guantanamo Bay, I guess so.
Or every Israeli on the actions of that soldier who caught on film shooting a bound and blindfolded captive at point blank range.

Horrible shit happens on both sides of this conflict, this is not new news to anyone.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|5486|'Murka

Braddock wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

FEOS wrote:

So does that mean we shouldn't condemn the entirety of Fatah or the Pals, since they denounced the activity have dealt with the perpetrator?
In the same manner that we can't condemn all Americans and Republicans (notably John McCain) for Guantanamo Bay, I guess so.
Or every Israeli on the actions of that soldier who caught on film shooting a bound and blindfolded captive at point blank range.

Horrible shit happens on both sides of this conflict, this is not new news to anyone.
At least you two see the double-standard that is often applied around here.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
san4
The Mas
+311|5763|NYC, a place to live

Braddock wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

FEOS wrote:

So does that mean we shouldn't condemn the entirety of Fatah or the Pals, since they denounced the activity have dealt with the perpetrator?
In the same manner that we can't condemn all Americans and Republicans (notably John McCain) for Guantanamo Bay, I guess so.
Or every Israeli on the actions of that soldier who caught on film shooting a bound and blindfolded captive at point blank range.

Horrible shit happens on both sides of this conflict, this is not new news to anyone.
The incidents described in the OP were not part of the conflict. Find some other way to dismiss them.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|5365|Éire

san4 wrote:

Braddock wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

In the same manner that we can't condemn all Americans and Republicans (notably John McCain) for Guantanamo Bay, I guess so.
Or every Israeli on the actions of that soldier who caught on film shooting a bound and blindfolded captive at point blank range.

Horrible shit happens on both sides of this conflict, this is not new news to anyone.
The incidents described in the OP were not part of the conflict. Find some other way to dismiss them.
So the power struggle between Hamas and Fatah has nothing to do with the Palestine/Israel problem anymore? I must have missed that memo.

And who exactly is dismissing anything here? What the report documents is terrible and unacceptable but the incidents are being investigated by authorities, the same way the Israeli authorities have looked into human rights violations within the IDF. If Hamas or Fatah were legislating for this kind of thing then I'd be worried.

Last edited by Braddock (2008-07-30 04:38:36)

sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|5832|Argentina

usmarine wrote:

Why no thread?  no outrage because it aint the US or Israel?
Because you already made one, duh.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|5630

Braddock wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

FEOS wrote:

So does that mean we shouldn't condemn the entirety of Fatah or the Pals, since they denounced the activity have dealt with the perpetrator?
In the same manner that we can't condemn all Americans and Republicans (notably John McCain) for Guantanamo Bay, I guess so.
Or every Israeli on the actions of that soldier who caught on film shooting a bound and blindfolded captive at point blank range.

Horrible shit happens on both sides of this conflict, this is not new news to anyone.
I would liken this more to Israel's unjust and extreme solitary confinement of Mordechai Vanunu than to cross-border hostilities.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|5365|Éire

CameronPoe wrote:

Braddock wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

In the same manner that we can't condemn all Americans and Republicans (notably John McCain) for Guantanamo Bay, I guess so.
Or every Israeli on the actions of that soldier who caught on film shooting a bound and blindfolded captive at point blank range.

Horrible shit happens on both sides of this conflict, this is not new news to anyone.
I would liken this more to Israel's unjust and extreme solitary confinement of Mordechai Vanunu than to cross-border hostilities.
Good point...both are in-house issues. Except the treatment of Vanunu was very much known to and accepted by the State.

Last edited by Braddock (2008-07-30 05:09:17)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,752|5181|eXtreme to the maX
Did they sign the Geneva convention, UN convention on human rights, UN convention on torture?
As they didn't its pretty much expected.
#FreeBritney
Braddock
Agitator
+916|5365|Éire

Dilbert_X wrote:

Did they sign the Geneva convention, UN convention on human rights, UN convention on torture?
As they didn't its pretty much expected.
Not adhering to International conventions on human rights is all the rage these days.
Thorax
Banned
+77|4879

CameronPoe wrote:

Mostly because these people are doing it to their own. That aside, it's debauched.
Kind of like the Lebanese prisoner recently released from Israeli jail because he murdered a 4 year old girls father in front of her and then smashed her head on a rock.



Didn't see an outcry there either.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|5365|Éire

Thorax wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Mostly because these people are doing it to their own. That aside, it's debauched.
Kind of like the Lebanese prisoner recently released from Israeli jail because he murdered a 4 year old girls father in front of her and then smashed her head on a rock.



Didn't see an outcry there either.
There wasn't much of an outcry at that Israeli soldier shooting a bound and blindfolded detainee at point blank range either, outside of B'Tselem there weren't too many Israelis up in arms. Both sides carry out several horrible acts and many people on both sides tolerate and in many cases celebrate these acts. The incidents in this case however were in-house matters and are being investigated by the relevant institutions so there is no point turning the thread into another "this side is more evil than that side" argument.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|5837

JahManRed wrote:

I'm confused. Is this a serious thread were we debate torture between the Palestinians. Or is it a whinging one liner thread?
i dunno.  go call someone a war profiteer or something
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|5298|Escea

FEOS wrote:

Braddock wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:


In the same manner that we can't condemn all Americans and Republicans (notably John McCain) for Guantanamo Bay, I guess so.
Or every Israeli on the actions of that soldier who caught on film shooting a bound and blindfolded captive at point blank range.

Horrible shit happens on both sides of this conflict, this is not new news to anyone.
At least you two see the double-standard that is often applied around here.
Wait for Dil
san4
The Mas
+311|5763|NYC, a place to live
There are pro-Israel people and anti-Israel people, but there aren't a whole lot of pro-Palestinian people.

For pro-Palestinian people, Palestinians torturing Palestinians would be terrible news, a sign of moral decay and depressing evidence that Palestinians will suffer long after they make peace with Israel.

Pro-Palestinian people fear Hamas more than they fear Israel. Israelis pull triggers that create Palestinian martyrs, but Hamas seeks out opportunities to make it happen.

Pro-Palestinian people would have supported my campaign for President of Gaza. But I didn't get a whole lot of votes.

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