Pages: 1 2 3 … 16

 

2008-07-01 09:39:55
stratozyck
Member
+35|6623
What does everyone think of this story?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,374223,00.html

Summary:  A 62 year old Texan was acquitted on shooting charges from a neighbor's burglary.  He witnessed two men crawling out of a neighbor's house (the neighbor was out of town).  He called police, then went outside and shot both in the back. 

While I think he probably got rid of two pieces of trash - I think he should have been charged.  I don't know how they can seriously argue that he was threatened when he went outside against the advice of the 911 operator he was talking to.  In addition, he shot them both in the back. 

When I was 14 or so I was walking in the woods and some old fart threatened to shoot me.  All I was doing was walking in the woods... this guy in this situation may have been right, but an old guy is liable to see a crime happening in a lot of situations where there isn't.  I bet this guy was just waiting for the day he could shoot someone and feel justified. 

Thoughts?
2008-07-01 09:46:46
mikeyb118
Evil Overlord
+76|6590|S.C.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=88562
Thanks for the update, although the argument has already been extensively covered.
2008-07-01 09:49:17
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6612|London, England
(rare) moments like this, make you want to +1 America
2008-07-01 09:52:48
Snake
Missing, Presumed Dead
+1,046|6557|England

Yey, lets punish the people who stand up to crime.

What is he supposed to do, turn a blind eye and tell his neighbours when they get back "yeah I saw the whole thing, even them running off down the road. I wanted to stop them, honestly".
For once, common sense seems to have prevailed.
2008-07-01 10:00:58
chittydog
less busy
+586|6826|Kubra, Damn it!

What about the Eigth Amendment people?

The U.S. Constitution wrote:

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
They're obviously shitheads, but death is not proper punishment for B&E.
2008-07-01 10:01:52
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6612|London, England
I suppose he could've just tried to shoot them in the leg
2008-07-01 10:04:53
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6482|Northern California
As much as I'm pro-gun, pro-castle doctrine, and for defending oneself, this dude did NOT fear for his life as his attorney said, he did NOT have any purpose but to kill..not STOP the crime.  THe dude is bad news for the real citizens out there wishing to maintain what few gun related rights we have.  HIs bad example may cost us.

He clearly shot the guys in the back, hence there was no danger to him..their hands were full.  He was given repeated lawful commands not to shoot but his intention was to shoot...and obviously to kill, NOT to stop the crime in progress.

But hey..that's par of the course in Texas!  Bigger and better, right?  lol

On a side note, I'm glad he stopped them, sadly it'll not reduce crime from other illegal aliens stealing because they're not reading the court decision or chit chatting about their amigos who got killed.  It may, however, help prevent further burglaries in Texas which is the ONLY positive I see in all this.  BUt no, the dude is no hero...he's a textbook "gun-nut."
2008-07-01 10:12:49
stratozyck
Member
+35|6623

IRONCHEF wrote:

As much as I'm pro-gun, pro-castle doctrine, and for defending oneself, this dude did NOT fear for his life as his attorney said, he did NOT have any purpose but to kill..not STOP the crime.  THe dude is bad news for the real citizens out there wishing to maintain what few gun related rights we have.  HIs bad example may cost us.

He clearly shot the guys in the back, hence there was no danger to him..their hands were full.  He was given repeated lawful commands not to shoot but his intention was to shoot...and obviously to kill, NOT to stop the crime in progress.

But hey..that's par of the course in Texas!  Bigger and better, right?  lol

On a side note, I'm glad he stopped them, sadly it'll not reduce crime from other illegal aliens stealing because they're not reading the court decision or chit chatting about their amigos who got killed.  It may, however, help prevent further burglaries in Texas which is the ONLY positive I see in all this.  BUt no, the dude is no hero...he's a textbook "gun-nut."
I agree - in this case he was not threatened.  No one made him go out and confront them.

I've met the type so many times, they're the shoot first ask questions later type.

And yes, I am aware there are other threads on gun issues, but this one is specifically related to one recent case.  I thought for sure he'd get charged with something.
2008-07-01 10:17:14
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6385|The Gem Saloon

Snake wrote:

For once, common sense seems to have prevailed.
common sense?

so, property is equal to a persons life?


this right here gentlemen, is inexperience talking.
2008-07-01 10:33:43
Eagle
Togs8896 is my evil alter ego
+567|6622|New Hampshire, USA
The men Horn killed, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia
I want to kiss the man's feet
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/14407/Sig_Pats.jpg
2008-07-01 10:39:27
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6385|The Gem Saloon

-=]NS[=-Eagle wrote:

The men Horn killed, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia
I want to kiss the man's feet
for taking the lives of two people?


some peoples beliefs never cease to amaze.....
2008-07-01 10:42:00
mikeyb118
Evil Overlord
+76|6590|S.C.

-=]NS[=-Eagle wrote:

The men Horn killed, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia
I want to kiss the man's feet
Your prejudices are astounding.
2008-07-01 10:42:18
chittydog
less busy
+586|6826|Kubra, Damn it!

-=]NS[=-Eagle wrote:

The men Horn killed, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia
I want to kiss the man's feet
Tired of the big illegal alien problem you're having up there in NH? Are there so many minorities now that they made it up to 2% of the population? They deserved a jail term and deportation, not death. The guy who shot them did so because he wanted to kill someone, not because it was the right thing to do. If he really wanted to do something, he could have fired a warning shot and told them to stay where they were until the police got there. What he did is murder, clear and simple. Just because they were criminals doesn't change that.

@Snake. Do you really think common sense is killing people who are not threatening your life for commiting a misdemeanor? You'd change your mind if this guy decided to shoot you for speeding, or jaywalking or underage drinking.

Last edited by chittydog (2008-07-01 10:43:09)

2008-07-01 10:54:12
HurricaИe
Banned
+877|5952|Washington DC

chittydog wrote:

Tired of the big illegal alien problem you're having up there in NH? Are there so many minorities now that they made it up to 2% of the population? They deserved a jail term and deportation, not death.
QFT. I'm all for legal immigration and whatnot, but wishing death on someone for crossing the border sounds a little too 1939.

edit: Breaking and entering and theft are misdemeanors?

Last edited by HurricaИe (2008-07-01 10:54:35)

2008-07-01 11:18:05
Volatile
Member
+252|6696|Sextupling in Empire

IRONCHEF wrote:

As much as I'm pro-gun, pro-castle doctrine, and for defending oneself, this dude did NOT fear for his life as his attorney said, he did NOT have any purpose but to kill..not STOP the crime.  THe dude is bad news for the real citizens out there wishing to maintain what few gun related rights we have.  HIs bad example may cost us.

He clearly shot the guys in the back, hence there was no danger to him..their hands were full.  He was given repeated lawful commands not to shoot but his intention was to shoot...and obviously to kill, NOT to stop the crime in progress.
In any other state he most likely would have been convicted of 2 counts of murder. His life, nor any others life, was in danger.

He should have been shooting photos for the prosecution, not going vigilante and making himself judge, jury, and executioner.
2008-07-01 11:21:42
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6482|Northern California
This loon and his new precedent now means that if you got a gun, and you live in texas, and you see someone stealing a newspaper from your neighbor's porch or lawn..they could lawfully be murdered.  I doubt that'll happen ("hope" actually), but technically, it could based on Mr. Horn's situation.  THe Jury had no problem with him murdering two theives, and being shot in the back, they obviously knew Horn wasn't in danger.

Ugh...this is what fuels the Brady fires and screws us all...it takes 10 good showings of proper gun use for defense to wash this crap down.  This ruling just canceled the heroics of that woman in the church who took down the shooter killing the girls.
2008-07-01 12:50:52
zeidmaan
Member
+234|6406|Vienna

The "Im so kick ass non gay tough motherfucker yeah baby bring it on biatch...." people never sease to amaze me.

also, Iran executes a criminal and and people call them filthy stupid backwards ignorant Muslims... but when its done buy a guy in US of A than that guy is a hero to the same people
2008-07-01 13:11:31
Hakei
Banned
+295|5987

Parker wrote:

Snake wrote:

For once, common sense seems to have prevailed.
common sense?

so, property is equal to a persons life?


this right here gentlemen, is inexperience talking.
Yeah, it is. You're stupid enough to enter someone's house and steal from them, expect getting shot. They shouldn't have done it in the first place.

You can give as much "Human life no price blah blah blah" Bullshit, but at the end of the day if you're stupid enough to go stealing from people, expect that somewhere, someday you're going to get fucked right back.

Play with feathers, you get your arse tickled.
2008-07-01 13:15:07
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6727|Salt Lake City

Hakei wrote:

Parker wrote:

Snake wrote:

For once, common sense seems to have prevailed.
common sense?

so, property is equal to a persons life?


this right here gentlemen, is inexperience talking.
Yeah, it is. You're stupid enough to enter someone's house and steal from them, expect getting shot. They shouldn't have done it in the first place.

You can give as much "Human life no price blah blah blah" Bullshit, but at the end of the day if you're stupid enough to go stealing from people, expect that somewhere, someday you're going to get fucked right back.

Play with feathers, you get your arse tickled.
If the occupant of the home being robbed had shot them, that would be one thing.  The fucking neighbor shouldn't be shooting anyone.
2008-07-01 13:17:32
Pierre
I hunt criminals down for a living
+68|6667|Belgium

stratozyck wrote:

What does everyone think of this story?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,374223,00.html

Summary:  A 62 year old Texan was acquitted on shooting charges from a neighbor's burglary.  He witnessed two men crawling out of a neighbor's house (the neighbor was out of town).  He called police, then went outside and shot both in the back. 

While I think he probably got rid of two pieces of trash - I think he should have been charged.  I don't know how they can seriously argue that he was threatened when he went outside against the advice of the 911 operator he was talking to.  In addition, he shot them both in the back. 

When I was 14 or so I was walking in the woods and some old fart threatened to shoot me.  All I was doing was walking in the woods... this guy in this situation may have been right, but an old guy is liable to see a crime happening in a lot of situations where there isn't.  I bet this guy was just waiting for the day he could shoot someone and feel justified. 

Thoughts?
This exactly illustrates why I'm against trial by jury in these cases:  justice doesn't prevail, only blind vengence.
2008-07-01 13:18:11
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6643|USA

zeidmaan wrote:

The "Im so kick ass non gay tough motherfucker yeah baby bring it on biatch...." people never sease to amaze me.

also, Iran executes a criminal and and people call them filthy stupid backwards ignorant Muslims... but when its done buy a guy in US of A than that guy is a hero to the same people
Waittttttttttttt a second....................I do not have a problem with executions in Iran, for CRIMINALS.....But to compare this to stoning a woman for looking at another man? C'mon now.......NOT the same thing

Leave to a bunch of bleeding hearts to be saddened over 2 pieces of shit getting killed while attempting a criminal act.....I do not give a flying fuck about criminals who get killed stealing from law abiding citizens....Maybe future criminals will choose carefully as to which house to B&E. They would be wise to pick a liberals house, since there is nothing worth "taking a life" for in a liberal home, and they probably will help YOU pack THEIR shit and load up your truck for you, and make sure the nieghbor is a liberal as well, so you can be sure you will get full cooperation.
2008-07-01 13:24:06
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|6663|UK

lowing wrote:

liberals liberals liberals liberals more liberals liberals with extra sauce, hot sexy liberals, fat liberals, smelly liberals, black liberals, white liberals, obama liberals, hillary liberals, liberals are scum, liberals, liberals, liberals, i hate liberals, i hate liberals more than you, i dont know how you can think like that liberals, W is the bomb, liberals should die, liberals go forth and multiply, liberals are not good for america, liberals eat babies, liberals smoke too much weed, liberals, liberals, liberals .
my eyes! my eyes! it burns! it burns!
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
2008-07-01 13:24:39
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6727|Salt Lake City

lowing wrote:

zeidmaan wrote:

The "Im so kick ass non gay tough motherfucker yeah baby bring it on biatch...." people never sease to amaze me.

also, Iran executes a criminal and and people call them filthy stupid backwards ignorant Muslims... but when its done buy a guy in US of A than that guy is a hero to the same people
Waittttttttttttt a second....................I do not have a problem with executions in Iran, for CRIMINALS.....But to compare this to stoning a woman for looking at another man? C'mon now.......NOT the same thing

Leave to a bunch of bleeding hearts to be saddened over 2 pieces of shit getting killed while attempting a criminal act.....I do not give a flying fuck about criminals who get killed stealing from law abiding citizens....Maybe future criminals will choose carefully as to which house to B&E. They would be wise to pick a liberals house, since there is nothing worth "taking a life" for in a liberal home, and they probably will help YOU pack THEIR shit and load up your truck for you, and make sure the nieghbor is a liberal as well, so you can be sure you will get full cooperation.
Yeah, shoot first and ask questions later.  The typical conservative mantra.  How long will it be before some gone toting conservative kills an innocent because he was sure their neighbors house was being burglarized.

Do I think the guys doing the B&E are scum?  Absolutely!  Did the neighbor whose house was not being burglarized nor in any danger have the right to become judge, jury, and executioner?  Not under the US legal system.  Our system is designed to let the punishment fit the crime, and taking physical possessions is not grounds for being murdered.

This would basically be the same as you getting a ticket for running a red light, and rather than having the ability to dispute it, they just revoke your license and confiscate your car because you're a danger to society.
2008-07-01 13:24:45
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6643|USA

IRONCHEF wrote:

This loon and his new precedent now means that if you got a gun, and you live in texas, and you see someone stealing a newspaper from your neighbor's porch or lawn..they could lawfully be murdered.  I doubt that'll happen ("hope" actually), but technically, it could based on Mr. Horn's situation.  THe Jury had no problem with him murdering two theives, and being shot in the back, they obviously knew Horn wasn't in danger.

Ugh...this is what fuels the Brady fires and screws us all...it takes 10 good showings of proper gun use for defense to wash this crap down.  This ruling just canceled the heroics of that woman in the church who took down the shooter killing the girls.
Makes ya wanna move to TX don't it?.............Finally someone has the balls to set aside bullshit PC and not punish a person for defending, yeah, even s nieghbor.....
2008-07-01 13:30:58
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6643|USA

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

lowing wrote:

zeidmaan wrote:

The "Im so kick ass non gay tough motherfucker yeah baby bring it on biatch...." people never sease to amaze me.

also, Iran executes a criminal and and people call them filthy stupid backwards ignorant Muslims... but when its done buy a guy in US of A than that guy is a hero to the same people
Waittttttttttttt a second....................I do not have a problem with executions in Iran, for CRIMINALS.....But to compare this to stoning a woman for looking at another man? C'mon now.......NOT the same thing

Leave to a bunch of bleeding hearts to be saddened over 2 pieces of shit getting killed while attempting a criminal act.....I do not give a flying fuck about criminals who get killed stealing from law abiding citizens....Maybe future criminals will choose carefully as to which house to B&E. They would be wise to pick a liberals house, since there is nothing worth "taking a life" for in a liberal home, and they probably will help YOU pack THEIR shit and load up your truck for you, and make sure the nieghbor is a liberal as well, so you can be sure you will get full cooperation.
Yeah, shoot first and ask questions later.  The typical conservative mantra.  How long will it be before some gone toting conservative kills an innocent because he was sure their neighbors house was being burglarized.

Do I think the guys doing the B&E are scum?  Absolutely!  Did the neighbor whose house was not being burglarized nor in any danger have the right to become judge, jury, and executioner?  Not under the US legal system.  Our system is designed to let the punishment fit the crime, and taking physical possessions is not grounds for being murdered.

This would basically be the same as you getting a ticket for running a red light, and rather than having the ability to dispute it, they just revoke your license and confiscate your car because you're a danger to society.
No this is the equivelent of a man who is looking out for his nieghbor and gets involved........You guys would be cscreaming what a piece of shit this guy is, if it had been found out that the homeowner and his little girls were murdered inside and the nieghbor did nothing but watch....Fuck PC, 2 criminals were killed in their attempt to harm a law abiding citizen, SALUTE!!  ( oh and if you think getting robbed is harmless then you have never bee nrobbed)

 

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