Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6077|eXtreme to the maX
John Hagee, the controversial evangelical leader and endorser of Sen. John McCain, argued in a late 1990s sermon that the Nazis had operated on God's behalf to chase the Jews from Europe and shepherd them to Palestine. According to the Reverend, Adolph Hitler was a "hunter," sent by God, who was tasked with expediting God's will of having the Jews re-establish a state of Israel.

Since McCain secured the endorsement, both his campaign and Hagee have been pressed to explain a series of derogatory remarks the Reverend made about the Catholic Church, including his reference to the institution as "the Great Whore."

Hagee has since apologized for those remarks. But his interpretation of the role of the Nazis could be harder to dismiss, in part because McCain and Sen. Barack Obama are expected to compete heavily over the Jewish vote come the general election, in part because McCain has said he admires Hagee's commitment to Israel, but mainly because similar theories have found their way into much of the Reverend's writings.

McCain, at least in the public record, has sought to thread the needle with the Hagee association: distancing himself from the controversial comment while reaping the political benefits of the Reverend's endorsement. Appearing on ABC's "'This Week" in late April 2008, McCain criticized Hagee's past remarks on the Catholic Church, but said that, "I admire and appreciate his advocacy for the state of Israel, the independence of the state of Israel."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/2 … 02892.html

Oh great, like the world needs another bunch of religious wackos in charge.....
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6521|CH/BR - in UK

Oh wow. So this guy thinks the Nazis helped, because they allowed the Jews to take back their 'promised land'? My god...
The worst thing about this is I think quite a few people both in the USA and in Israel might agree with this.

-konfusion
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6592|London, England
Hitler talks about how much he hated Jews, yet the Nazi's were Christian. Which is a Jewish religion (same for Islam). These Jew haters are hilarious. They don't even realise the only reason their religion exists is because of the Jews.
ZombieVampire!
The Gecko
+69|5798
Actually, there's much debate as to Hitler's religion (for the record, I don't belive he was Christian).

So, is this anti-Semitic because it supports the Holocaust or not because it supports Zionism?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6077|eXtreme to the maX
Hitler talks about how much he hated Jews, yet the Nazi's were Christian. Which is a Jewish religion (same for Islam). These Jew haters are hilarious. They don't even realise the only reason their religion exists is because of the Jews.
Is that why all religions are total bollocks?
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|6738
hillary likes the pope
the pope was in the hitler youth
therefore: hillary loves hitler

mcain = hitler lover
ZombieVampire!
The Gecko
+69|5798
That's hardly a fair comparison.  McCain has purposely associated himself with someone who has praised the Holocaust.
OrangeHound
Busy doing highfalutin adminy stuff ...
+1,335|6620|Washington DC

konfusion wrote:

Oh wow. So this guy thinks the Nazis helped, because they allowed the Jews to take back their 'promised land'? My god...
The worst thing about this is I think quite a few people both in the USA and in Israel might agree with this.

-konfusion
Quite a few?  My friend, this is subconsciously all over and all through America.  There is a theological teaching called dispensational premillenialism that many of the word faith preachers such as Hagee espouse.  Within the framework of this teaching is the notion that God is willing the return of Israel to the promised land and the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple before Christ returns.  So, "good Christians" should do everything in their power to help Israel do this -- including stomp all over the Palestinians.

This is so deeply woven into American culture and politics that it is nauseating.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6728|Argentina

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

Hitler talks about how much he hated Jews, yet the Nazi's were Christian. Which is a Jewish religion (same for Islam). These Jew haters are hilarious. They don't even realise the only reason their religion exists is because of the Jews.
Yup, the three are Abrahamic Religions, pretty much the same shit, just different flavors tbh.
OrangeHound
Busy doing highfalutin adminy stuff ...
+1,335|6620|Washington DC

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

... yet the Nazi's were Christian ...
The Nazi's were not Christian ... they were a political entity, however they wisely aligned themselves with the Christian churches in order to give their agenda credence with the people.   It is classic politics, and it has been used successfully throughout history.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6728|Argentina

OrangeHound wrote:

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

... yet the Nazi's were Christian ...
The Nazi's were not Christian ... they were a political entity, however they wisely aligned themselves with the Christian churches in order to give their agenda credence with the people.   It is classic politics, and it has been used successfully throughout history.
Hitler was an atheist and many other assholes of  the Third Reich were too.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 5#p2099085
You know.. from the last time we went over this.

Kmarion wrote:

Hagee was just reading prophecies from the old testament. He was responding to the question of "how could god let that happen to the Jewish". The media and feeble minded ran with it. Hagee is actually a supporter of Israel. He founded Christians for Israel. http://www.cufi.org/site/PageServer?pag … john_hagee
Xbone Stormsurgezz
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6194|Escea

He had ties with the Catholic Church didn't he? More to make them happy than anything else, just remember that shot of him and the Pope shaking hands.
ZombieVampire!
The Gecko
+69|5798
How did the statement not show support for Israel?

Also, how can you reject an endorsement?  I can understand he wants to distance himself, but what exactly does rejecting an endorsement entail?
kylef
Gone
+1,352|6464|N. Ireland
Putting limitations on Christians during the 1930s is "doing God's work" ? lol.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

WASHINGTON: Senator John McCain, in a provocative and politically risky speech, sharply criticized leaders of the religious right on Monday as "agents of intolerance" allied to his rival, Governor George W. Bush, and denounced what he said were the tactics of "division and slander."

Specifically, Mr. McCain singled out the evangelists Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell as "corrupting influences on religion and politics" and said parts of the religious right were divisive and even un-American.
News travels slow across the pond I'm guessing. McCain has been denouncing these extremist from the religious right.

(Damn, I'm not even a McCain supporter)
Xbone Stormsurgezz
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6521|CH/BR - in UK

OrangeHound wrote:

Quite a few?  My friend, this is subconsciously all over and all through America.
Shh - I was trying to be diplomatic
But yeah, I agree with everything you've said. It's just that I didn't want to be the one to bring up another Israel/Palestine/"YOU'RE AN ANTI-SEMITIC" debate.

-konfusion
OrangeHound
Busy doing highfalutin adminy stuff ...
+1,335|6620|Washington DC

ZombieVampire! wrote:

Also, how can you reject an endorsement?  I can understand he wants to distance himself, but what exactly does rejecting an endorsement entail?
An endorsement is old-school politics, where blocks of voters unite under a single organizational banner.  So, if the organization endorses a candidate (usually because the candidate promised the organization more political benefits than the other candidate) then the block of voters will supposedly all vote for that candidate.

That is "old-school" because a lot of America doesn't operate that way any longer.  People don't block-vote much anymore.  Still, the endorsement has influence over those who give allegiance to the credibility of the endorsement.  So, in this case, Hagee has a lot of followers so his endorsement might influence them.

Now, since the "endorsement" is based in old-school, block-voting politics - and typically given based on some political promises/alignments - McCain's refusal of the endorsement simply implies that he has not made any political alignments with Hagee, and that there is no reason for the block of voters to support him over another candidate ... other than preference.
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6620

Kmarion wrote:

WASHINGTON: Senator John McCain, in a provocative and politically risky speech, sharply criticized leaders of the religious right on Monday as "agents of intolerance" allied to his rival, Governor George W. Bush, and denounced what he said were the tactics of "division and slander."

Specifically, Mr. McCain singled out the evangelists Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell as "corrupting influences on religion and politics" and said parts of the religious right were divisive and even un-American.
News travels slow across the pond I'm guessing. McCain has been denouncing these extremist from the religious right.

(Damn, I'm not even a McCain supporter)
Wow, I'm actually quite impressed by that. How long ago was that though, going on that it refers to Bush as Governor?
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

2000 Election.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
kylef
Gone
+1,352|6464|N. Ireland

OrangeHound wrote:

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

... yet the Nazi's were Christian ...
The Nazi's were not Christian ... they were a political entity, however they wisely aligned themselves with the Christian churches in order to give their agenda credence with the people.   It is classic politics, and it has been used successfully throughout history.
Not Christian per-say, but Vatican. Strict Catholicism, and that the Pope would not interfere with Politics if Hitler did not overly interfere with the Church.
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|5885|Glendale, CA
I personally can't stand that Huffington chick.  She seems stuck up and full of herself.  What I find odd is that she kept her ex-husband's last name, but I guess it sounds better than the Stassinopoulos Post.  In general that's not the point, though.  I hate people like this Hagee guy.  I hope all these Fundamentalist wackos go die somewhere.
OrangeHound
Busy doing highfalutin adminy stuff ...
+1,335|6620|Washington DC

kylef wrote:

OrangeHound wrote:

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

... yet the Nazi's were Christian ...
The Nazi's were not Christian ... they were a political entity, however they wisely aligned themselves with the Christian churches in order to give their agenda credence with the people.   It is classic politics, and it has been used successfully throughout history.
Not Christian per-say, but Vatican. Strict Catholicism, and that the Pope would not interfere with Politics if Hitler did not overly interfere with the Church.
I was actually referencing the Protestants, and not the Catholics.

The Catholics were only about 1/3 of the "Christians" in Germany at the rise of the Nazis, and the Lutherans were about 2/3's of the "Christians" (other Christian groups were about 1% of the population)

The Catholics appear to be more resistant to the Nazi's than were the Lutherans ... In fairness to the Catholics, there were quite a number of Catholic priests in the concentration camps because of their opposition to the Nazi's.  Protestants?  Just a few, such as Bonhoeffer.

Some of the quotes from this time are absolutely amazing:

  • A leading Lutheran theologian, Paul Althaus, wrote of Hitler and the Nazi party in 1934, "Our Protestant churches have welcomed the turning point of 1933 as a gift and miracle of God."
  • “The time is fulfilled for the German people of Hitler.  It is because of Hitler that Christ, God the helper and redeemer, has become effective among us …. Hitler is the way of the Spirit and the will of God for the German people to enter the Church of Christ.”  (German pastor Hermann Gruner)
  • “Christ has come to us through Adolph Hitler” (Julius Leutheuser, a counselor of the Protestant Church in Germany)
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6376|North Carolina

M.O.A.B wrote:

He had ties with the Catholic Church didn't he? More to make them happy than anything else, just remember that shot of him and the Pope shaking hands.
One could argue the Catholic Church is no more Christian than Hitler was.  Both the Nazies and the Catholic Church are good examples of major corruption.  Of course, the Nazies were a lot worse.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6261|Éire
There are some real fucking nutjobs in America when it comes to religion...and seemingly in some very influential positions too.

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