maef
Member
+67|6893|Tulln, Austria
First off: Yes, this "review" only includes negative points about the game. That doesn't mean there's nothing good about this game, I just feel the positive aspects have been pointed out more than enough.
Also, this is not from a Rookie's point of view who has been blinded by all the praise this game got from every possible source. I have played every game in the series (well, except for Liberty City Stories, but anyway) and draw comparisons from experience.

That being said, let's get to the point.
GTA IV does not deserve the insane amounts of praise it gets.
Sure it's a great game, but scores of 10/10 are not justified.
Let me tell you why I think so:

Motivation:
Seriously, what's all this talk about those guys from Niko's past that he's trying to find? It's not until quite a few hours into the game that you get at least a tiny bit of information about who those people are and why you're trying to find them. By then it's simply too late to really get into the whole revenge thing. How am I ever supposed to identify with Niko if even I don't know what the hell he's on about.

Character development:
GTA:SA introduced those great possibilities of developing your character in pretty much any way you wanted. Working out in order to become a beefy bastard or stuffing yourself with fast food to be a fat blob, running instead of driving to improve your stamina, riding motorcycles or bikes to improve your skills, get a tattoo and change your hairstyle. All that. I loved those aspects and as far as I can tell most other people did too. They already had them developed and only needed to port them to the current engine, why drop them?
And it's not just the physical character development, but also the social one I'm missing. I'm halfway through the game and still doing nothing other than random hits on people my sponsors don't like for one reason or another. Where are the gangs I took over, the territories I gained control of? The only difference to the beginning of the story is that I'm now working for more influential people, which doesn't exactly make me any more powerful. I'm still just a low-life crook, only now I'm getting paid more. Which leads me to my next point:

Money:
As I said before, I'm about halfway through the game. What you didn't know is that there's over $300,000 on my bank account by now. Why is that? Simply because there is absolutely fucking nothing to spend it on. It's not exactly satisfying to spend 300 grand on hamburgers and a handful of clothing (see next point). It's a shame there are no more nice mansions to buy. This leaves you in no way bonded to the random apartments you got at some point in the story without any effort. Oh, and while I'm at it. If food refills your health, then why the hell is there no food in the fridge? I mean, that's what your "safehouse" should be there for. Getting your act back together.

Those three points are the ones that throw me off the most. I've been sitting around at home all day and I didn't even feel like playing. With San Andreas I couldn't stop, but I just can't seem to get involved in the story of GTA IV. It's just not going anywhere. You're not getting any closer to your goals (whatever they might be). You're not on the point of gaining any power or control over the city. Yeah, you keep on making money, but as I said, what's the point of money if there's nothing to spend it on.
I keep on comparing IV to San Andreas not just because SA is the most recent of the other games, but also because in my opinion, it is the best of the whole series so far. You knew where you wanted to go. You wanted to gain control over the city and you were getting closer to that one step at a time. Not just by regaining control of your gang, but also owning a record company and spending your money on mansions. Generally just advancing in your social (reads: criminal) status.
GTA IV has nothing of that. It's just one random mission after another, none of which really seem to take you anywhere. Niko's character is not developing in any way and neither is the whole storyline.

Anyway, on to some other things that annoy me.

Locations:
4 clothing stores? Two of which are identical? Are you kidding me? Liberty City is supposed to represent New York and there are some 4 bars, two strip-joints and a handful of fast-food restaurants. They've designed a huge city with incredible amounts of details and a little versatility when it comes to these things is too much to ask for?
On the other hand it's probably a good thing there aren't more clothes to buy since you still have that incredibly clumsy way of changing where you have to flip through every single item you have with the screen going blank for a few seconds each time.

Physics:
Back in 2000, in Hitman, you'd brush away every leave of a bush when you walked by. Now, 8 years later, in GTA IV, supposedly one of the greatest games ever created, you still walk through them like they were holographic. That's just a minor issue, but for some reason it really annoys me.
What's even worse about the physics are the collisions with vehicles. Any car will send you to the ground in a vicious hit, even if it goes only 2 mph. But it doesn't get any better if you're the one driving. You barely need to touch another car to smash your headlights and the next time you go over 20 mph your engine hood is guaranteed to go sailing over your head. It's near impossible to get from one point in the city to another without getting your car damaged unless you're willing to spend a good half hour and go with the speed of the other drivers (who still seem to have an irrational fear of going any faster than a midget in flippers).

AI:
OK, the enemies have become smarter than before. They take cover and some even seem to attack coordinately (at least the SWAT teams). But they still can't drive for shit!
If they're planning to make that left turn, they will. Regardless of the fact that you're currently only a foot to their left. And don't even get me started on streets with more than one lane. Damn, I don't feel like going 10 mph on a one mile-straight only because every other driver feels the need to randomly swerve all over the lanes for no apparent reason.


All in all I have to say GTA IV turned out to be a huge disappointment to me. They did make a few improvements compared to SA, but they just dropped way too many of the great things they introduced in that game.
For the next game in the series, I say Rockstar should take the engine of IV, the concept of San Andreas and go from there.

Last edited by maef (2008-05-12 14:18:39)

^*AlphA*^
F*ckers
+3,135|6948|The Hague, Netherlands

keyboard ran away from you while making the title?

edit. never mind, someone is quick tonight.
https://bf3s.com/sigs/36eac2cb6af70a43508fd8d1c93d3201f4e23435.png
maef
Member
+67|6893|Tulln, Austria
Yeah, sorry. I typed that when I wanted to preview the formatting of the post and forgot to edit it before submitting.

Edit: Yeah, I am.

Last edited by maef (2008-05-12 14:20:39)

Jenspm
penis
+1,716|6942|St. Andrews / Oslo

I agree 100%, I'm at 35%, and I don't feel like playing it at all anymore
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png https://twitter.com/phoenix/favicon.ico
justice
OctoPoster
+978|6950|OctoLand
I'm at 30%, also have stopped playing...it just hasn't grabbed me....maybe I'll get into it again one day.
I know fucking karate
jsnipy
...
+3,276|6732|...

I've not been able to play it for than 1 hour in a sitting. Sad that some of the stuff had been removed (i.e. character development). But you never know, console versions can be patched and upgraded I'm sure they would rather sell you another game now that you know what you are missing 
VicktorVauhn
Member
+319|6601|Southern California
Stat building was fucking annoying, "fuck I have to go work out today"...not why I play GTA. I also hated the gang territories...fun to take over, but annoying to be heading towards a mission and have to go all the way back to defend an area. The friends/gf is kinda the same way, having to play pool or darts or whatever over and over is annoying. At least its improved from SA where you had to constantly drive your date to a spot, watch a terrible cut scene then drive back...but the games mini games are not that fun and I don't want to have to go bowling again.

Can I hit you with a car going 3mph and we will see if you can stay on your feet? The car may not be going fast but you body presents no obstical and you will be moved out of the way. Tthe bumper of a modern car is designed to crumple at around 5mph for safety, so driving into a wall at 10 breaking a glass housing isn't too far fetched imo.

I drive from one place to another with very very little damage at pretty damn decent speeds all the time. Get in your real car and drive with your foot on the floor the whole time and see how far you make it with out any damage. Besides, who cares if you loose your hood? (next time you see it start to open, slam on the brakes, if you do it hard enough it will slam shut and relatch)

Who wants to go buy clothing? This isn't barbie dress up dream house...its motha fucking GTA. You can put on makeup when we get back, its hooker killing time.

Money: You complain you have too much, another thread complained that hospital fees are to great...A grenade costs $1000 and rocket launcher costs 15000, I've spent over 50k in one trip to the gun shop.

I really don't notice too many random lane changes...crossing a long bridge at high speed there is usually only one guy to do it, and one person making a lane change every 5 miles isn't anything too crazy...Watch for them and use your brakes, I really have no trouble driving around full speed..sure you may hit a car eventually but learn to keep some control over your can and your fine. Locking up the brakes make you take longer to stop, and you have no control over and airborn car, learn to drive and its fine.

The story DOES kinda suck in that Nikos personal agenda is such a SMALL part of it. Niko always projects the "I don't care about why you are having me do it, just pay me" attitude... I don't really care about most of the people I work for so their stories don't really draw me in because its not really my concern, just something I am in for the money. Would have been good for plot if my character was more emotionally involved.

The new weapons systems were a mix bag for me. The old one sucked, I fucking loved being able to adjust my auto aim and take everyone out with head shots. The cover system I didn't really use, I did as I did in SA...use my own damn cover, played it kinda like a FPS and use objects as cover while stepping out periodically to take shots. I found that using the cover system Niko too often stopped on the wrong side, or faced the wrong way. The cover system also meant really really annoying bad guys. Not hard, but you had to wait 5 minutes for him to finally pop his head up, rather then blind firing so I could actually shoot him. I guess this sis some what good though as it encourages you to move up/flank rather then pick out a spot and set up shop. Free aim was a PITA though, on PS3 the line between aiming and auto aiming (or aiming and firing depending on what buttons you used) I found all too often that when I was trying to free aim to the guy standing out in the open behind me I would auto aim at some guy behind cover. 95% of the time the new auto aim was dead sexy...5% it just wouldn't let me switch targets, free aim would accidently snap back to the same damn guy behind cover, then I would get pissed and dead.
Spidery_Yoda
Member
+399|6479
I've not been playing it all that much either. I agree with a bunch of that.

However, the working out, eating etc in SA was just annoying. I'm glad its been taken out. I never really bought mansions or clothes, or customized my character either in SA. Thought it was a waste of time. CJ was wearing the same green hoodie (that I bought him on the mission where you had to change his outfit) for the entire game.

However, there is a definite lack of.. something in GTA IV. The 'story' as you say is just a disjointed bunch of random hits for the most part. I'm not finished it yet, but i've unlocked most of the islands so i'm a good way through (I assume).

Also, the fact that your 'friends' never leave you alone is kinda annoying. 'Lets go bowling' no. 'Lets go drinking' no. 'Want to play darts?' NO. And every time you tell them to get stuffed you lose points. If the minigames were fun I might consider it. Going to see shows can be quite fun though.

The cover system and combat in general is just awful.

But it's by no means all bad. I love the city, i think Niko is great, and I love driving sports cars about on first person view in the rain. It looks so good when you do that.

Last edited by Spidery_Yoda (2008-05-12 14:59:45)

UK|Hooligan
Seriously, fuck off.
+103|6898|"The Empire"
Iv not got off the first Island as already bored of dating, taking people out for a drink, same old same old already. Not grabbed me one bit, my list of complaints is a lot longer than the OP.
doug1988
spank that azz.
+146|6068|Nibiru in a far away galaxy

^*AlphA*^ wrote:

keyboard ran away from you while making the title?

edit. never mind, someone is quick tonight.
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6859

I suggest emailing the OP to Rockstar. Because if they could fix all that stuff it'd be an amazing game.

I'm sure they'll just delete it, but it's worth a shot. That, or send it to a e-magazine and ask them to get an interview with a dev.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6751|Texas - Bigger than France
I don't have the game yet, but after seeing the OP I think I'm gonna pass.  I still fire up GTA III every once in awhile because it has no point...and that's the point.

But before I make my final decision - how much stat building is involved?  If I jack a nice car is that enough or am I going to have to practice parallel parking all day long?
Spidery_Yoda
Member
+399|6479
There is no stat building at all in GTA IV as far as I remember.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6751|Texas - Bigger than France
I thouhgt I saw that somewheres up there, apologies
bennisboy
Member
+829|6856|Poundland
I agree with some points, but at the risk of starting a fanboy war, R* said that they completely filled the 360 disk with IV, which is a reason for some missing content

But another point is, you have to remember its a completely new engine, they had to start form the ground up, which may explain the lack of some features. It took them time to build up to the awesomeness of the game that was SA, building up along the way with vice city. I'm expecting the same thing from the IV series.

Plus IV was meant to have a more realistic vibe, dunno if that will follow in the rest of the series, but I guess we'll find out. Hopefully the wait wont be as long as from SA to IV, due to all the mechanics being there now
bennisboy
Member
+829|6856|Poundland

Pug wrote:

I don't have the game yet, but after seeing the OP I think I'm gonna pass.  I still fire up GTA III every once in awhile because it has no point...and that's the point.

But before I make my final decision - how much stat building is involved?  If I jack a nice car is that enough or am I going to have to practice parallel parking all day long?
You'll be missing out if you dont get it, it may not be perfect but its still amazing
killaer
Member
+41|6927
You picked the some of the most insignificant reasons to even judge the game on in your review.

Why the hell would you need food in the fridge of your safehouse if sleeping puts you back to full health?
Leaves? You want to brush through leaves when you walk through them? Dude, GTA is all concrete, where are you finding leaves/spending that much time in bushes to notice?
Why are you so concerned about beating up your car? Are you OCD or something? Yeah, when you bump into a car you can probably expect some damage to be done. As long as you drive carefully you can drive your car home in one peice easily.

I do agree with some of your points though. I'm at the part where he starts talking about florian crevic and darko and the whole revenge thing, but I have no clue what he's talking about since ou have so little information on them, and it's not brought up in the mid-game at all.
Money does tend to accumulate in your pocket quite a bit with nothing to spend it on.

You have valid points, but this review is just nitpicking at all the little itty bitty minute things that don't really matter. GTA is still a great game, the driving, shooting, etc. is a blast. I don't really see how you can be dissapointed unless you were really really REALLY into getting different haircuts and grinding for boring stat points in SA.
VicktorVauhn
Member
+319|6601|Southern California

Spidery_Yoda wrote:

I love driving sports cars about on first person view in the rain. It looks so good when you do that.
I was really excited to see that they improved the first person driving view. I realized after a bit in SA that it made driving easier, specially weaving through traffic...but the SA one sucked as it was just a moving camera like GT4. The hood view was better, but I really wished they just made it an in car view. They could do it as a passenger, like when you ride in cabs...why couldn't I have that as a driver?
Gfinners
Member
+17|6512|Cornwall, England
Have to agree with some things there maef. To begin with it seemed pretty awesome, 'till the same old crap cropped up from the other GTA's that'd annoyed me. The AI driving sucks as usual, like maef said, random swerving regardless of you being right next to them.

And the missions are too scripted. Regardless how many different ways you try to crash the car your chasing or kill the guy your trying to kill, it always ends in the same outcome. Remember one mission chasing a car, all 4 tyres were popped, yet while being in a 4x4 pickup they were outspeeding/cornering me in a cop car. And another chasing some guy around a house, managed to fill 30 ak-47 rounds into his back while he's climbing a ladder, yet he carries on climbing like nothing had happened.

Okay the game would be pretty kak if you could stop alot of things happening, but just doesn't seem right.

Sure it's still a great game, just after GTA III and Vice City and SA I'd thought some of the lame stuff had been sorted by now.
maef
Member
+67|6893|Tulln, Austria

killaer wrote:

You picked the some of the most insignificant reasons to even judge the game on in your review.

Why the hell would you need food in the fridge of your safehouse if sleeping puts you back to full health?
Leaves? You want to brush through leaves when you walk through them? Dude, GTA is all concrete, where are you finding leaves/spending that much time in bushes to notice?
Why are you so concerned about beating up your car? Are you OCD or something? Yeah, when you bump into a car you can probably expect some damage to be done. As long as you drive carefully you can drive your car home in one peice easily.

I do agree with some of your points though. I'm at the part where he starts talking about florian crevic and darko and the whole revenge thing, but I have no clue what he's talking about since ou have so little information on them, and it's not brought up in the mid-game at all.
Money does tend to accumulate in your pocket quite a bit with nothing to spend it on.

You have valid points, but this review is just nitpicking at all the little itty bitty minute things that don't really matter. GTA is still a great game, the driving, shooting, etc. is a blast. I don't really see how you can be dissapointed unless you were really really REALLY into getting different haircuts and grinding for boring stat points in SA.
Well, you also picked the most insignificant arguments of my post to complain about. A lot that came after the first three points were just random things I noticed at some point during the game, I thought I made that clear. Smashing my headlights when touching a parked car at 1.5 mph for example can get somewhat annoying at night when you can't see all that great without lights.
As I said at the beginning of my post, I intentionally only included the bad things. That doesn't mean the rest doesn't still make a good game, but that has been said enough times and I thought I'd focus on the flaws for once.

My main complaint was that the game is completely lacking a global concept. It's like it's just a demo to showcase the engine and the new features. Nothing you do really has any effect on the world around you.
You're gaining more and more money but you're not going anywhere. The missions themselves are well designed and everything, but the story just isn't gripping. Hell, there isn't even really a story. It's one mission after another without any kind of advancement. It's not just Niko, none of the characters are developing in any way. To put it short: Nothing is fucking happening. At all.
That is the main source of disappointment compared to SA. You used to have goals and ambitions. You worked towards them and could see yourself getting closer and closer. You'd have victories and setbacks. You'd advance in social status and relationships with other people.
Now you just get to know someone, do some missions for them and move on to someone else. Over and over again. The only thing that changes are the people you work for.
VicktorVauhn
Member
+319|6601|Southern California
I can see fine without lights? Did you adjust the in game brightness or just your TVs? I am beginning to think people complaining (not you) about lack of color/lighting haven't even adjusted the game settings yet...

But breaking a headlight because you hit something (regardless of speed) will brake a headlight. Drive you car into a wall with it barely moving and see. All the force needed to bring a couple tons to a stop will break glass if its concentrated into a single point...
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|6976|UK

VicktorVauhn wrote:

I can see fine without lights? Did you adjust the in game brightness or just your TVs? I am beginning to think people complaining (not you) about lack of color/lighting haven't even adjusted the game settings yet...

But breaking a headlight because you hit something (regardless of speed) will brake a headlight. Drive you car into a wall with it barely moving and see. All the force needed to bring a couple tons to a stop will break glass if its concentrated into a single point...
Sorry but your just plain wrong on that, ive hit a few obstacles when parking etc and ive never broken any of my lights or so much as dented any of my car. Theres also the fact that the bulbs are covered with a plastic cover... breaking the plastic doesn't break your lights.

I also agree with the OP that the falling over after getting tapped by a car is stupid. Its like Niko has no perception of what is going on around him and cant brace himself. The physics are far far far too rag doll like, body doesn't seem to have any kind of ridged structure. Legs go flapping all over the place like the person has the muscles of an anorexic two year old.

Last edited by Vilham (2008-05-12 17:51:13)

GR34
Member
+215|6754|ALBERTA> CANADA
they really made the cites like assassins creed, Huge beautiful cities that you can do absolutely nothing in they are just there... I miss SA with the dozens of different types of clothes, and why cant I get a simple T-shirt in IV?
VicktorVauhn
Member
+319|6601|Southern California

Vilham wrote:

VicktorVauhn wrote:

I can see fine without lights? Did you adjust the in game brightness or just your TVs? I am beginning to think people complaining (not you) about lack of color/lighting haven't even adjusted the game settings yet...

But breaking a headlight because you hit something (regardless of speed) will brake a headlight. Drive you car into a wall with it barely moving and see. All the force needed to bring a couple tons to a stop will break glass if its concentrated into a single point...
Sorry but your just plain wrong on that, ive hit a few obstacles when parking etc and ive never broken any of my lights or so much as dented any of my car. Theres also the fact that the bulbs are covered with a plastic cover... breaking the plastic doesn't break your lights.

I also agree with the OP that the falling over after getting tapped by a car is stupid. Its like Niko has no perception of what is going on around him and cant brace himself. The physics are far far far too rag doll like, body doesn't seem to have any kind of ridged structure. Legs go flapping all over the place like the person has the muscles of an anorexic two year old.
It depends on what kinda bulbs you have, not all are a bulb in a plastic cover. A couple times in the game I hit obsticals at low speed and didn't break the lights...Whats your point? You smash a bulb and it will get smashed.

It is rag dollish...but what do you want? programing complete cognizance and  muscle reactions isn't quite perfected...At least we have bodies that react directly to the situation, rather then one of four falling animations...Its not like GTA is the last game ever made and its still an advancement.

And yes, if a car going 5mph hits your leg you will fall down. The only way you will avoid that is to jump out of the way, and unfortunately we aren't quite at the point of individual muscle control.
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|6976|UK

VicktorVauhn wrote:

Vilham wrote:

VicktorVauhn wrote:

I can see fine without lights? Did you adjust the in game brightness or just your TVs? I am beginning to think people complaining (not you) about lack of color/lighting haven't even adjusted the game settings yet...

But breaking a headlight because you hit something (regardless of speed) will brake a headlight. Drive you car into a wall with it barely moving and see. All the force needed to bring a couple tons to a stop will break glass if its concentrated into a single point...
Sorry but your just plain wrong on that, ive hit a few obstacles when parking etc and ive never broken any of my lights or so much as dented any of my car. Theres also the fact that the bulbs are covered with a plastic cover... breaking the plastic doesn't break your lights.

I also agree with the OP that the falling over after getting tapped by a car is stupid. Its like Niko has no perception of what is going on around him and cant brace himself. The physics are far far far too rag doll like, body doesn't seem to have any kind of ridged structure. Legs go flapping all over the place like the person has the muscles of an anorexic two year old.
It depends on what kinda bulbs you have, not all are a bulb in a plastic cover. A couple times in the game I hit obsticals at low speed and didn't break the lights...Whats your point? You smash a bulb and it will get smashed.

It is rag dollish...but what do you want? programing complete cognizance and  muscle reactions isn't quite perfected...At least we have bodies that react directly to the situation, rather then one of four falling animations...Its not like GTA is the last game ever made and its still an advancement.

And yes, if a car going 5mph hits your leg you will fall down. The only way you will avoid that is to jump out of the way, and unfortunately we aren't quite at the point of individual muscle control.
Im going to assume firstly you have never seen a car if you think headlight bulbs aren't protected on EVERY car that is currently in production.
Im also going to assume this is the first advanced phyics engine you have seen if you think there are none which have muscle systems in their rag dolls.

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