BF2S Forums GM to Layoff entire second shift

Adapt or die. If the U.S car industry is losing out to cheaper, more efficient Japanese cars, they only have themselves to blame. Sorry to hear about your dad though, it's not his fault. It's the dicks at the top.

One thing that might help the situation is to stop subsidizing GM.  We've thrown a lot of government money at GM over the last few years supposedly with the intent to help them research hybrid technology and other things of that nature.  We need to end all corporate welfare to GM, because, as this article and many others show, it's currently a sinking ship.

The market must clear this mess.  Or, as Mek (and Ben Franklin) put it....  "Adapt or die."

If I remember correctly, GM said that the US healthcare system cost them about $1,500 extra per car in comparison to countries with socialised healthcare. That shits all over your chances of being competative.

sorry to hear about that








and on a lighter note ..........

Stingray24 wrote:

That doesn't mean the cars cost $1,500 extra than their competitors.

Yes, but it does mean that the private system isn't working too well for businesses like GM.

Last edited by Turquoise (2008-04-28 16:30:23)

It's as simple as this: SUVs and wasteful vehicles of said ilk will soon be a thing of the past. Fair enough if you have a decent purpose for the thing go right ahead and buy one but stay-at-home mums and men requiring penis extensions: enjoy the gas bill until they stop manufacturing them.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-28 16:43:13)

SenorToenails wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

That doesn't mean the cars cost $1,500 extra than their competitors.

Yes, but it does mean that the private system isn't working too well for businesses like GM.

The system works great for the employees though.

My grandfather worked for GM for a long time way back in the day.  A few years ago, he was pissed at "the bastards" for raising his prescription copays.  The copay was raised from $1 to $2.  That was around when my parent's insurance changed from $5 copays to the tiered system, $5/$15/$35 or something like that.

Yes, he was paying $2 and was pissed about it.  He also had complete dental and vision coverage, with low copays.

If GM hadn't provided such lavish retirement plans, they probably wouldn't have the huge retirement related problems they have today.

Very true.  This just supports the notion that unions typically get carried away in their demands.

In addition to this, the government should be handling the healthcare side, since it's so expensive for companies.  Japanese companies, for example, don't have to deal with this, because they have a suitable socialized healthcare system.

If OPEC switches to the Euro....  rather...  WHEN they switch to the EUro...  we're pretty fucked....

Stingray24 wrote:

They are adapting, but numbnuts like you guys keep promoting the myth that foreign cars get better mileage, which is a load of bs.

While GM, Ford, and Chrysler may have a few vehicles with comparable mileage, the fact is that overall the Japanese cars do get better mileage.  And beyond initial quality standards, at which the US vehicles have gotten better, long term support/repair costs on Japanese cars are lower...end of story!

I just recently read an article from Consumer Reports where they rated the top 10 best and worst used vehicles to buy.  The Japanese cars from Toyota, Honda, and Nissan dominated the buy list.  The do not buy list was nearly dominated by all GM products.

Sorry, but US made vehicles are still coming up just a little short in the mileage and total cost of ownership category.

And let us not forget that most Japanese cars sold in the US are also made in the US, supplying thousands of jobs to US auto makers.

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

They are adapting, but numbnuts like you guys keep promoting the myth that foreign cars get better mileage, which is a load of bs.

While GM, Ford, and Chrysler may have a few vehicles with comparable mileage, the fact is that overall the Japanese cars do get better mileage.  And beyond initial quality standards, at which the US vehicles have gotten better, long term support/repair costs on Japanese cars are lower...end of story!

I just recently read an article from Consumer Reports where they rated the top 10 best and worst used vehicles to buy.  The Japanese cars from Toyota, Honda, and Nissan dominated the buy list.  The do not buy list was nearly dominated by all GM products.

Sorry, but US made vehicles are still coming up just a little short in the mileage and total cost of ownership category.

And let us not forget that most Japanese cars sold in the US are also made in the US, supplying thousands of jobs to US auto makers.

Its only to lower costs in the long run and expansion of the Japanese product.

The#1Spot wrote:

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

They are adapting, but numbnuts like you guys keep promoting the myth that foreign cars get better mileage, which is a load of bs.

While GM, Ford, and Chrysler may have a few vehicles with comparable mileage, the fact is that overall the Japanese cars do get better mileage.  And beyond initial quality standards, at which the US vehicles have gotten better, long term support/repair costs on Japanese cars are lower...end of story!

I just recently read an article from Consumer Reports where they rated the top 10 best and worst used vehicles to buy.  The Japanese cars from Toyota, Honda, and Nissan dominated the buy list.  The do not buy list was nearly dominated by all GM products.

Sorry, but US made vehicles are still coming up just a little short in the mileage and total cost of ownership category.

And let us not forget that most Japanese cars sold in the US are also made in the US, supplying thousands of jobs to US auto makers.

Its only to lower costs in the long run and expansion of the Japanese product.

Japanese cars are often known for their reliability, but a lesser heard news item is that Ford was recently ranked as being the most reliable automaker for the money.  The problem that is developing among many Japanese automakers in the American market is that they are starting to rely more on their name and less on innovation.  They are starting to charge more for less in return, which makes Fords and Chevys start to look more attractive on a cost level.

Also, while many Fords and GM cars are known for needing repairs, parts and labor are often much cheaper than those of Toyota and Honda vehicles.  There are many variables involved, but it's not a simple matter of any one automaker being better to buy from than another.

Certain models are "flagships" in that they offer more for the money in terms of quality and sometimes gas mileage.  These vehicles are deliberately made to promote the reputation of an automaker.  Other models aren't engineered as rigorously and innovatively and may perform less relative to the amount being spent.

Another consideration is that many consumer journals have credibility issues.  Consumer Reports has gotten in trouble for previous biases.

In 1996, Consumers Union (CU) published a report indicating that the 1995-96 Isuzu Trooper sport utility vehicle had demonstrated a "tendency to roll over in certain situations" in its tests, and that it had determined that this was "not acceptable". In a press conference, it called on Isuzu to discontinue sales and recall Troopers already sold, and continued to issue warnings about the Trooper, advising the public not to buy the vehicle, and suggesting that federal officials should launch an investigation into possible product defects. Isuzu filed a lawsuit against CU as a result of the article; the court ruled that CR had made "numerous false statements" and had put the Isuzu through tests that competitors were not subjected to"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Reports

So, it's often difficult to find an objective source on auto reviews.  Upon closer inspection, testing methods and the weight put on certain items during testing relative to other factors might be questionable or irrelevant to a particular consumer.

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

Adapt or die. If the U.S car industry is losing out to cheaper, more efficient Japanese cars, they only have themselves to blame. Sorry to hear about your dad though, it's not his fault. It's the dicks at the top.

Meh.. I blame unions.