BF2S Forums Let's Never Forget: 100 years of Genocide

sergeriver wrote:

EVieira wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

No, it's all about real facts.
When US dropped their nukes in Japan they never meant to wipe Japanese people from the World.  Read the definition of Genocide according to the UN, and then tell me if that was Genocide.  It certainly was awful, but not a Genocide.

Real facts? Killing of 200,000 people, half of those vaporised instantly and the other condemened to blindness, third degree burns and a suffering death by either radiation posioning or kidney failure is not about real facts?

You may or may not call it genocide, but it was damn more than "awful".

And if you want to use that definition of genocide, your opening post is wrong. Mao's Great Leap, the Nanking Rape and Stalin's Forced Fame were not genocides, since they "are about facts" and never intended to wipe a race from the earth. They are just "awful".

The Great Leap Forward was not a Genocide, that's why it says (Was this a Genocide?), it was a big mistake committed by Mao.  Since some people told it should be there, I put it but I deny that was a Genocide.  I don't see how the other two aren't Genocides.  And, again I think what happened with the nukes in Japan is awful, but it isn't a Genocide.  Read my posts.

Damn straight, it ain't genocide and the US didn't know what the effects on humans were by the atom bombs...

EVieira wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

EVieira wrote:

Real facts? Killing of 200,000 people, half of those vaporised instantly and the other condemened to blindness, third degree burns and a suffering death by either radiation posioning or kidney failure is not about real facts?

You may or may not call it genocide, but it was damn more than "awful".

And if you want to use that definition of genocide, your opening post is wrong. Mao's Great Leap, the Nanking Rape and Stalin's Forced Fame were not genocides, since they "are about facts" and never intended to wipe a race from the earth. They are just "awful".

The Great Leap Forward was not a Genocide, that's why it says (Was this a Genocide?), it was a big mistake committed by Mao.  Since some people told it should be there, I put it but I deny that was a Genocide.  I don't see how the other two aren't Genocides.  And, again I think what happened with the nukes in Japan is awful, but it isn't a Genocide.  Read my posts.

Ok, lets see it again:

sergeriver wrote:

No, it's all about real facts.
When US dropped their nukes in Japan they never meant to wipe Japanese people from the World.  Read the definition of Genocide according to the UN, and then tell me if that was Genocide.  It certainly was awful, but not a Genocide.

Stalin did something "awful", but he never meant to wipe Ukranians from the face of the Earth. He was trying to stop a revolution, and apparently he succeeded.

The Japanes army did something "awful" in Nanking, but they never meant to wipe the Chinese people from the World.

So why isn't this logic applied to the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? I'm not trying to condemn the bombings, whether they should have been dropped or not is the stuff for another argument. But the fact is when the subject arises, that terrible act is usually treated much more lightly than the so called "genocides".

So again, "awful" dosen't begin to describe what was done to those families. If you don't want to call it genocide, fine, but then what are you going to call it?

A nasty but yet a required way to end a war?

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

Damn straight, it ain't genocide and the US didn't know what the effects on humans were by the atom bombs...

Your claiming IGNORANCE??? FFS, its an ATOMIC BOMB!!!! Scientists knew damn well the effects of radiation since Marie Curie died of radiation exposure! And they also knew very well the extend of the destruction they would cause, they had tested plenty of times in the Arizona deserts...

Edited the spelling, my english is getting worse every day...

Last edited by EVieira (2006-11-23 08:04:33)

EVieira wrote:

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

Damn straight, it ain't genocide and the US didn't know what the effects on humans were by the atom bombs...

Your claiming IGNORANCE??? FFS, its an ATOMIC BOMB!!!! Cientists knew damn well the effects of radiation since the Marie Curie died of radiation exposure! And they also knew very well the extend of the destruction they would cause, they had tested plenty of times in the Arizona deserts...

Well, in the end it did end WW2. If they didn't drop the bomb, the invasion of japan would mean death of millions on both sides. US Marines Vs Willing to give their life suiciding kamikazes. It would be like Iraq, but everyone is an IED detonator.

EVieira wrote:

The Japanes army did something "awful" in Nanking, but they never meant to wipe the Chinese people from the World.

Yes. They.  Did.

Bubbalo wrote:

EVieira wrote:

The Japanes army did something "awful" in Nanking, but they never meant to wipe the Chinese people from the World.

Yes. They.  Did.

And so did Stalin.

/he waits Bubbalo's comeback a bit worried

Bubbalo wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

And so did Stalin.

When did Stalin ever express a desire to wipe out the Hungarians?

What hungarians?  I know what he did to Ukraine.
I don't have a DVD of Stalin, but you can read some of his social security plans here:

Stalin believed any future insurrection would be led by the Kulaks, thus he proclaimed a policy aimed at "liquidating the Kulaks as a class."  Declared "enemies of the people," the Kulaks were left homeless and without a single possession as everything were taken from them, even their pots and pans. It was also forbidden by law for anyone to aid dispossessed Kulak families. Some researchers estimate that ten million persons were thrown out of their homes.  By the end of 1933, nearly 25 percent of the population of the Ukraine, including three million children, had perished. The Kulaks as a class were destroyed and an entire nation of village farmers had been laid low. With his immediate objectives now achieved, Stalin allowed food distribution to resume inside the Ukraine and the famine subsided.

Last edited by sergeriver (2006-11-23 09:29:21)

EVieira wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

I don't know.  But someone thought it was the best to end the war, and the war ended.  Anyway, you derailed the topic to any other thing except Genocide.

Fine, back to genocide then. If you don't consider wiping out of 200,000 Japanese civilians with 2 bombs genocide, what do you call it? Simply "something awful" to hasten then end of a war?

I told you in another post, but I can repeat it.  It was an awful decision but it was required to end WWII.  Could you tell me how many people would have die if US didn't drop the nukes?  I can't, but it's more than 200k.

Found this in a book review at the Harvad Human Rights Journal:

Hiroshima and “Reflections on the Holocaust and Hiroshima,” explore the definition of genocide in the context of mass killings of civilians in wartime. Hiroshima is not generally considered to be a genocidal event and no action was ever taken to discipline those who developed the atomic bomb, sanctioned it, and executed its use. At the same time, the killing was arguably targeted at civilians in a way that did not allow for individual surrender. By expanding the term “genocide” to include mass killings like Hiroshima, Frey revises the traditional understanding that genocide is only the purposeful annihilation of a specific group.

Like I said before, history is written by the winners. The UNs definition of genocide would never encompass Hiroshima and Nagasaki...

bubbalo wrote:

Again, not genocide.  Just the same as a trade embargo isn't a war.

When I advocate the naval blockcade of Iran I will stand poised to remind you of your words.

cc90jt wrote:

xX[Elangbam]Xx wrote:

cc90jt wrote:

Dont put nazis in there, they did nothing wrong, but killing criminals, heil hitler!

Burn in hell you fucking nihilist.



Anyway, here's a vid I made for the Darfur genocide:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koqy6el_qVo

oh stop your whining, evereyone has different opinions... deal with it

I don't think killing entire race of people is a good opinion.

Funny, Hitler saved some jews since they were worthy to live, Ie Scientists, Engineers etc. Remember that post with that guy as the perfect German in the Army uniform? Damn straight he was a jew.

Debate is fine... he is a piece of shit...  maybe he and I can talk in person sometime.... lol

Opened, who ever can't keep this thread normal or has to flame with racial intentions will be banned, that simple !