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- UAV...a lesson for commanders.....
Poll
Where should commanders set up UAV....
| around the majority of soldiers | 26% | 26% - 20 | ||||
| where people are capturing flags | 72% | 72% - 55 | ||||
| where the commander sees some random enemies | 1% | 1% - 1 | ||||
| Total: 76 | ||||||
I wonder if a mod has seen this...
in a game on any map i would always give a squad leader / a couple of guys who are trying to take a flag UAV support. at an enemy flag the enemy are going to spawn, and the guys who are trying to take this flag are going to know that, but they dont know where. so UAV is going to give them that edge to see enemy before they get seen.
if these guys taking the flag are good soldiers then the majority of time your UAV support will end up with an extra control point. Fair enough, if the guys taking the flag are not very good and die, then the UAV is wasted, but i am always going to take this chance.
on a map like karkand with the mayhem that goes on at the start of the round, i will stick the UAV over the hotel because some of the time it does help capture that flag. most of the time all you are doing is letting your team see where to throw a granade, and you know that their team is going to have the UAV over head canceling out yours.
but as soon as a squad/team mate makes a move to capture another control point, i will give them full support. i will always say to the SL's that UAV/Artillery/Supplies are available so that if they really want it they can ask. a lot of the time i can tell that team mates will either need UAV or not depending on what control point they are going after. if i feel that they dont need UAV, i will place the UAV somewhere else but then zoom in and spot all the enemy soldiers around that control point until it is captured.
so in conclusion, give your SL's team mates priority of the assets when capturing a control point, otherwise dont waste your UAV over a cluster of bad guys in the middle of no where - u know why? cause your team mates already know that they are there!
if these guys taking the flag are good soldiers then the majority of time your UAV support will end up with an extra control point. Fair enough, if the guys taking the flag are not very good and die, then the UAV is wasted, but i am always going to take this chance.
on a map like karkand with the mayhem that goes on at the start of the round, i will stick the UAV over the hotel because some of the time it does help capture that flag. most of the time all you are doing is letting your team see where to throw a granade, and you know that their team is going to have the UAV over head canceling out yours.
but as soon as a squad/team mate makes a move to capture another control point, i will give them full support. i will always say to the SL's that UAV/Artillery/Supplies are available so that if they really want it they can ask. a lot of the time i can tell that team mates will either need UAV or not depending on what control point they are going after. if i feel that they dont need UAV, i will place the UAV somewhere else but then zoom in and spot all the enemy soldiers around that control point until it is captured.
so in conclusion, give your SL's team mates priority of the assets when capturing a control point, otherwise dont waste your UAV over a cluster of bad guys in the middle of no where - u know why? cause your team mates already know that they are there!
this just in biatch my scores are better than yours on absolutly everything =p
ill pick your c4 glitching ass off anytime, i just get irriatated at little fucktards that have use flaws in the game and ruin the shit. anjoy your fruity glitch while it last cuz dice going to get rid of faggots like you
ill pick your c4 glitching ass off anytime, i just get irriatated at little fucktards that have use flaws in the game and ruin the shit. anjoy your fruity glitch while it last cuz dice going to get rid of faggots like you
eh ?
now see I don't like your kind of commandingryan_14 wrote:
i always place UAV, see a bunch of men, drop arty on them, and by the time the arty drops ont he area, they have all dissapeared
I hate it when commanders place a UAV and then Artillery right over it. Why?
IT'S A WASTE.
Either of UAV time or Teammate's lives.
If there's Arty there no wise teammate is going to utilize that UAV because they won't get near, friendly arty is raining above. If they do utilize the UAV they die. Great.
Put your artillery and then wait for it to finish before placing your UAV anywhere near so your soldiers can actually use it.
The best (if not the only) point made in this thread, in my opinion. Placing UAVs where nobody has time to use it just as wasted as dumping it where nobody from your side is, is headed, or plans to stay for any amount of time.RKF77 wrote:
[...] On Karkand, the Hotel is nothing but a bass-ackwards clusterfuck from the word "go". Half the teams are running around like headless chickens noobtoobing or C4 frisbeeing each other. Putting the UAV there won't do shit...the fight there is too dynamic and too disjointed in too small a space for a UAV to be taken away from squads trying to achieve an objective. [...]
Karkand is where my bigest beef with using the UAV in all-out melees is: Why do idiots keep placing it dead center on the spawn? It covers none of the edges, and so gives no advantage to either those guarding the western ridge, or those headed down the eastern make-out-lane.
i also voted for the flag cappers.
reasons were already mentioned mostly.
to stay with the karkand example its not really that useful to place the uav over the main fighting area cause:
1. ppl in the thick of the battle havent got that much time to watch their radar, especially the newbs.
2. if there are really a lot players in an area your eyes are a better choice to spot them, UAV is only giving hints where the enemy is.
so i prefer to give the squad that is actually doin something useful the useful assets, sure i scan and then i place my UAV considering following factors:
1. where are the majority of my troops and where are they heading to.
2. wheres the bigest mass of enemys moving towards my troops.
3. are there any other places/flags with heavy fighting or a squad under pressure while capping a flag.
normally i end up placing 3 of 5 UAV between 2 flags where the major fighting is goin on with some intermediate flag capping support for squads.
and so far i havent seen a round beeing lost cause of a misplaced UAV.
reasons were already mentioned mostly.
to stay with the karkand example its not really that useful to place the uav over the main fighting area cause:
1. ppl in the thick of the battle havent got that much time to watch their radar, especially the newbs.
2. if there are really a lot players in an area your eyes are a better choice to spot them, UAV is only giving hints where the enemy is.
so i prefer to give the squad that is actually doin something useful the useful assets, sure i scan and then i place my UAV considering following factors:
1. where are the majority of my troops and where are they heading to.
2. wheres the bigest mass of enemys moving towards my troops.
3. are there any other places/flags with heavy fighting or a squad under pressure while capping a flag.
normally i end up placing 3 of 5 UAV between 2 flags where the major fighting is goin on with some intermediate flag capping support for squads.
and so far i havent seen a round beeing lost cause of a misplaced UAV.
yeah dont think many rounds are lost because of misplaced UAV, but i find it a major advantage if the commander will say to me that the assets are available on request. that way if i feel i need something, he will give me it.
although i was in a game once where the commander was taking "... is available on request" a little too far. the guy would only place UAV when someone asked, which became annoying when you are stuck in battle, and think that the commander knows this and should just replace the UAV after me asking for it 3 times in a row! the commander would not place the UAV unless asked which i think took it a bit too far.
although i was in a game once where the commander was taking "... is available on request" a little too far. the guy would only place UAV when someone asked, which became annoying when you are stuck in battle, and think that the commander knows this and should just replace the UAV after me asking for it 3 times in a row! the commander would not place the UAV unless asked which i think took it a bit too far.
well if i,m commanding to help my team i:
in case of attacking a flag:
*First use my satalite to spot where the most enemies are and if there is a lot going around and my team is close i use the UAV in that area
in case of attacking a flag:
*First use my satalite to spot where the most enemies are and if there is a lot going around and my team is close i use the UAV in that area
As I hate watching my back when capping a flag, I always put the UAV's there where a lot of teammates are capping a flag for us.
When commander, UAV will be directed at the densest insurgent locale as seen through the scanning system. Any strays will be spotted until they've been dealt with, and any flag capping teammates will be monitored at 3x zoom (spotting enemies as frequently as possible).
I just drop the UAV ontop of the actual battle or ontop of myself (cus in a field commader (fight and command (not just sit in one spot and tell ppl what to do))) Its easier, faster and you win quicker.
If a squad is going in and I KNOW nobody is around - or if there are just 2 or three hostiles, I'll just spot them. No sense wasting a UAV on 2 hostiles. Even if it's requested and there are only a 2 or 3 hostiles, I'll still spot them and explain my decision to the squad leader. I save my UAV for defending flags. Defending a main base, etc is more important - imho - then capturing a low rated flag.
I rarely use arty, only if there are 5 or more hostiles defending a flag. I'll send arty in to clear it out for about 15 seconds so that my squad can run in and begin capturing it.
Supply boxes: If I hear someone saying "low on ammo" or "need a medic", I'll drop a supply box if none are in the area. Mind you, if they are in the middle of a field doing nothing I'll just watch em die...lol. I like to drop supplies in heavy traffic areas. In Karkand that's almost every other corner.
I rarely use arty, only if there are 5 or more hostiles defending a flag. I'll send arty in to clear it out for about 15 seconds so that my squad can run in and begin capturing it.
Supply boxes: If I hear someone saying "low on ammo" or "need a medic", I'll drop a supply box if none are in the area. Mind you, if they are in the middle of a field doing nothing I'll just watch em die...lol. I like to drop supplies in heavy traffic areas. In Karkand that's almost every other corner.
i use it for ppl who are capping flags, anywhere, coz 1 flag for us, means 1 point for me
sigh....i must have pwned u in-game @ somepoint....didn't realize you would get so butt-hurt cause i launched you and ur friends 100 ft in the air w/ a c4 sandwich WHOA!!!!....it's just a game!!! maybe you'll win one day!!!1111 Look how mad u are!chitlin wrote:
this just in biatch my scores are better than yours on absolutly everything =p
ill pick your c4 glitching ass off anytime, i just get irriatated at little fucktards that have use flaws in the game and ruin the shit. anjoy your fruity glitch while it last cuz dice going to get rid of faggots like you
and you can quit lying about ur stats lolers.....what's ur username lmao!
PLEASE visit my deli @ moders 24/7 karkand for a SPICY TREAT. we'll definitely see who bites what..OH WHAT?
PWNED!!!!111one ty ty
but back to commanders: let's think real-world situation....deploying UAV/ any military equipment is expensive and designed to maximize its use, i.e. where most people can use it.
imo, if u need UAV to cap a flag, alls u need is just more practice and be less selfish than to ask for support sry.
zomg chitlin u a private 1st class???? wtf?
sry bro for being so hostile earlier, didn't knows u were a noob 4 reals.
sry bro for being so hostile earlier, didn't knows u were a noob 4 reals.
The military's actual use of UAVs is absolutely nothing even remotely similar to BF2's in-game implementation of the UAV. The two cannot even be even loosely compared.WaGoN_aTTacK wrote:
but back to commanders: let's think real-world situation....deploying UAV/ any military equipment is expensive and designed to maximize its use, i.e. where most people can use it.
Wagon Attack, stfu noob, dont go saying your good, cause you suck... go eat dirt with your puny commander hours/score. i have more points than you... and i am better GR than you, so wtf are you bragging about?.. pussy.
EDIT:!! i just checked your stats, and WTF all you do is play karkand how would you even know how to command?... 390 hours on karkand.... point whore is all you are.
EDITx2: i am gonna see you tonight on that server bitch.. everyone that has a higher rank then him go to the server at about 3-4 EC time and we will own him so hard he will cry to his mom in the dumpster behind my house.
EDIT:!! i just checked your stats, and WTF all you do is play karkand how would you even know how to command?... 390 hours on karkand.... point whore is all you are.
EDITx2: i am gonna see you tonight on that server bitch.. everyone that has a higher rank then him go to the server at about 3-4 EC time and we will own him so hard he will cry to his mom in the dumpster behind my house.
Last edited by (EUS)Gen.BadSnipaDay (2005-12-21 06:49:56)
The way of good commanding.
1. COMMAND LOCATION
Hide in a good spot (NO IT'S NOT IN AN ARMOURED VEHICLE) stay there. Open up the commanding screen and if you have the chance don't close it until the end of round. Keep your white gloved hands away from any vehicle....your troops need it. ASK evryone to GET IN SQUADS...that way you will command them much better.
2. OBSERVATION
Watch the whole map constantly, do Scans so you only have to zoom in if you want to spot a totally unseen enemy unit. This way you always get correct information on the GLOBAL situation and you don't get lost in a local firfight. After all you're a Commander, not a Squad Leader.
4. UAV PLACEMENT
The use of the UAV depends always on the situation. Give the UAV to the mass of troops and spot for your troops behind enemy lines. (Keep in mind that 50% of the players never look at the minimap, so get prepaired for a nervous breakdown...Use the MOVE/DEFEND command to direct your troops)
If a flag was captured by your troops and they keep on charging towards the next one the correct placement of the UAV is the possible main engagement point. It is not necessarily the next flag! But this must be determined by the strength of the opposing force.
5. ARTILLERY PLACEMENT
Again watch the situation. If a flag is being captured by your troops and they killed a big bunch of enemy set your artillery to the nearest enemy flag. That's where they will respawn.
If the enemy is advancing towards one of your flag, Check their speed, their most possible route and place a preventive artillery strike on their path. That way your group can strengthen their defence at your flag, while you weakening the incoming forces.
Try to avoid artillery teamkills if it's possible. You don't get minus score but your team looses tickets. Although if your flag has only 1 defender against 2 APC surrounded by enemy infantry, you have to put the arty strike there. Your troop won't survive anyway, the enemy will get the flag in 3 secs because of their number. If you wait till flag goes neutral and only then order the artillery strike to that flag you'll miss probably the whole bunch. By the time the strike is delivered the assaulting force will be far away.
ALWAYS inform your nearby squads about the incoming artillery strike. 90% will listen to you and stop, only 10% run into the strike. Use the MOVE command to direct them to a safe spot. Use the radio as well to inform them.
Again be prepared for a nervous breakdown...you can't do anything for lone-wolf-Rambos...they can't be informed and they will be the ones to run into friendly artillery strike first. Ignore their complains...you asked them to be in a squad....their fault.
If you see an enemy helicopter or jet being shot down...give attention to those poor souls who spend their life beside the helipad or the airstrip/hangar. If you place your artillery strike precisely you take out a bunch of enemy together with the vehicle they are waiting for...then they have to wait again for that chopper/jet and you give some breath to your armor units. (Only if the said objects are NOT at an uncapturable base! This case DON'T use artillery there. It's unfair.)
Never put artillery strike directly on the flag. Noone spawns directly there and while the artillery has quite wide spread some of the bases are much bigger and offer several spawnpoints. Learn where are the primary spawnpoints are and place your strike there. (Learning this helps manual spotting as well.)
6. SUPPLY PLACEMENT
Don't throw supply crates as soon as possible. Again observe the situation and drop supply to vital locations.
Give priority to armors. Drop supply on their path to the best spot where they can stay for longer time while having good visibility to the area. Direct them to the crate with the MOVE command.
You can do the same with choppers. Drop a crate to a safe position outside the LOS of the enemy units and use the MOVE command to direct them there. That way the chopper doesn't have to fly a long distance back to a friendly helipad for repairs.
I rarely drop supply for selfish/lonely snipers. Although I play sniper a lot I never ask for a whole crate of supply. It's just a waste of important material and the parachuting crate will always give away the snipers position.
If he's a good sniper he will find a way to get ammo or he should change his kit by salvaging an enemy body.
Play commander as medic, supply, or engineer. (Depends on map) that way you can see the health/ammo bar of your units so you can drop supply where it is really needed.
Give supply to Spec ops units if you think they can blow the enemy commander's "toys".
Lastly be prepared to save some supply drop for your own toys to repair...chances are that nobody will repair your assets while they keep screaming their lungs out for the non-existant UAV support. So either you drop a crate or repair it yourself...if you play as engineer.
7. COMMUNICATION
Now that is VITAL. You see everything and you're the one to inform your squads about possible threats....before it turns out to be a slaughter. So try to spot the enemy before they spot your troops.
Again direct your troops to the best positions. (If you do it good they will trust you and move there)
Turn on VOIP and use/listen to the radio.
Sometimes it's not enough to spot an enemy on the map in a backwater location, YOU have to TELL the nearby troops that an enemy is there. Don't rely on them alone, some of the really never looks at the minimap.
8. CHARISMA/RESPECT
I personally never Rebuke a squad but that's up to you.
I think nothing is more annoying that listening to a wise-ass commander who give you the "My Grandmother would do it better!" phrase while you were killed 5th times by that tank you are so eager to blow away and your teammates refuse to play AT or Spec Ops.
On the other hand I commend the good squads if they manage to capture a flag or was able to take out an armor unit...that gives a moral boost to everyone.
Say "Sorry" for your artillery teamkills (if it was your fault) and say "Thanks for the nice game and points" in the next round to your troops.
Ps: Now I could ramble on for ages but I think in short that's all.
Hope that helps. Feel free to add some to the list or change it.
Have a nice day!
EDIT: Corrected some typos
1. COMMAND LOCATION
Hide in a good spot (NO IT'S NOT IN AN ARMOURED VEHICLE) stay there. Open up the commanding screen and if you have the chance don't close it until the end of round. Keep your white gloved hands away from any vehicle....your troops need it. ASK evryone to GET IN SQUADS...that way you will command them much better.
2. OBSERVATION
Watch the whole map constantly, do Scans so you only have to zoom in if you want to spot a totally unseen enemy unit. This way you always get correct information on the GLOBAL situation and you don't get lost in a local firfight. After all you're a Commander, not a Squad Leader.
4. UAV PLACEMENT
The use of the UAV depends always on the situation. Give the UAV to the mass of troops and spot for your troops behind enemy lines. (Keep in mind that 50% of the players never look at the minimap, so get prepaired for a nervous breakdown...Use the MOVE/DEFEND command to direct your troops)
If a flag was captured by your troops and they keep on charging towards the next one the correct placement of the UAV is the possible main engagement point. It is not necessarily the next flag! But this must be determined by the strength of the opposing force.
5. ARTILLERY PLACEMENT
Again watch the situation. If a flag is being captured by your troops and they killed a big bunch of enemy set your artillery to the nearest enemy flag. That's where they will respawn.
If the enemy is advancing towards one of your flag, Check their speed, their most possible route and place a preventive artillery strike on their path. That way your group can strengthen their defence at your flag, while you weakening the incoming forces.
Try to avoid artillery teamkills if it's possible. You don't get minus score but your team looses tickets. Although if your flag has only 1 defender against 2 APC surrounded by enemy infantry, you have to put the arty strike there. Your troop won't survive anyway, the enemy will get the flag in 3 secs because of their number. If you wait till flag goes neutral and only then order the artillery strike to that flag you'll miss probably the whole bunch. By the time the strike is delivered the assaulting force will be far away.
ALWAYS inform your nearby squads about the incoming artillery strike. 90% will listen to you and stop, only 10% run into the strike. Use the MOVE command to direct them to a safe spot. Use the radio as well to inform them.
Again be prepared for a nervous breakdown...you can't do anything for lone-wolf-Rambos...they can't be informed and they will be the ones to run into friendly artillery strike first. Ignore their complains...you asked them to be in a squad....their fault.
If you see an enemy helicopter or jet being shot down...give attention to those poor souls who spend their life beside the helipad or the airstrip/hangar. If you place your artillery strike precisely you take out a bunch of enemy together with the vehicle they are waiting for...then they have to wait again for that chopper/jet and you give some breath to your armor units. (Only if the said objects are NOT at an uncapturable base! This case DON'T use artillery there. It's unfair.)
Never put artillery strike directly on the flag. Noone spawns directly there and while the artillery has quite wide spread some of the bases are much bigger and offer several spawnpoints. Learn where are the primary spawnpoints are and place your strike there. (Learning this helps manual spotting as well.)
6. SUPPLY PLACEMENT
Don't throw supply crates as soon as possible. Again observe the situation and drop supply to vital locations.
Give priority to armors. Drop supply on their path to the best spot where they can stay for longer time while having good visibility to the area. Direct them to the crate with the MOVE command.
You can do the same with choppers. Drop a crate to a safe position outside the LOS of the enemy units and use the MOVE command to direct them there. That way the chopper doesn't have to fly a long distance back to a friendly helipad for repairs.
I rarely drop supply for selfish/lonely snipers. Although I play sniper a lot I never ask for a whole crate of supply. It's just a waste of important material and the parachuting crate will always give away the snipers position.
If he's a good sniper he will find a way to get ammo or he should change his kit by salvaging an enemy body.
Play commander as medic, supply, or engineer. (Depends on map) that way you can see the health/ammo bar of your units so you can drop supply where it is really needed.
Give supply to Spec ops units if you think they can blow the enemy commander's "toys".
Lastly be prepared to save some supply drop for your own toys to repair...chances are that nobody will repair your assets while they keep screaming their lungs out for the non-existant UAV support. So either you drop a crate or repair it yourself...if you play as engineer.
7. COMMUNICATION
Now that is VITAL. You see everything and you're the one to inform your squads about possible threats....before it turns out to be a slaughter. So try to spot the enemy before they spot your troops.
Again direct your troops to the best positions. (If you do it good they will trust you and move there)
Turn on VOIP and use/listen to the radio.
Sometimes it's not enough to spot an enemy on the map in a backwater location, YOU have to TELL the nearby troops that an enemy is there. Don't rely on them alone, some of the really never looks at the minimap.
8. CHARISMA/RESPECT
I personally never Rebuke a squad but that's up to you.
I think nothing is more annoying that listening to a wise-ass commander who give you the "My Grandmother would do it better!" phrase while you were killed 5th times by that tank you are so eager to blow away and your teammates refuse to play AT or Spec Ops.
On the other hand I commend the good squads if they manage to capture a flag or was able to take out an armor unit...that gives a moral boost to everyone.
Say "Sorry" for your artillery teamkills (if it was your fault) and say "Thanks for the nice game and points" in the next round to your troops.
Ps: Now I could ramble on for ages but I think in short that's all.
Hope that helps. Feel free to add some to the list or change it.
Have a nice day!
EDIT: Corrected some typos
Last edited by IC_Draconis (2005-12-22 12:13:52)
LOLZ you've played over 100 hrs more than me to get that score, which i will surpass in 30 mins.....i guess that makes you better than me in your world LMAO!!! and look how 1336 your stats are...NOT?? OH SNAP??? I ALREADY HAVE MORE KILLS THAN YOU???WTF?(EUS)Gen.BadSnipaDay wrote:
Wagon Attack, stfu noob, dont go saying your good, cause you suck... go eat dirt with your puny commander hours/score. i have more points than you... and i am better GR than you, so wtf are you bragging about?.. pussy.
EDIT:!! i just checked your stats, and WTF all you do is play karkand how would you even know how to command?... 390 hours on karkand.... point whore is all you are.
EDITx2: i am gonna see you tonight on that server bitch.. everyone that has a higher rank then him go to the server at about 3-4 EC time and we will own him so hard he will cry to his mom in the dumpster behind my house.
KEEP TRYING TO FIND A STAT TO KNOCK ROFLCOPTOR!!!
No need to hate, i'll be there trust me lols, and i'll make a spicy c4 sandwich for you children!!!11..
yes, i realize that LOLS...but it's like dropping a bomb...or any other asset....it was supposed to be an analogy LMAO to exemplify the idea of OPTIMIZATION....RKF77 wrote:
The military's actual use of UAVs is absolutely nothing even remotely similar to BF2's in-game implementation of the UAV. The two cannot even be even loosely compared.WaGoN_aTTacK wrote:
but back to commanders: let's think real-world situation....deploying UAV/ any military equipment is expensive and designed to maximize its use, i.e. where most people can use it.
YOUR still a noob Wagon wheel!
the main reason i cant take you serious wagon is that stupid children internet slang wich is supposed to be cool or something but guess what? it makes you look like a little boy whos growing his first hair in certain places
anyway im not joining this flame war ill let you children play
on topic: imho commanding style differs from person to person and it also depends on your team. effective squad wont need UAV that much and a bunch of smurfs doesnt watch their radar anyway, wich seems so on karkand most of the time, only the skilled players make use of the possibilities the game has to offer.
last word to our little pranksters: meet up tonight and lay down your dispute on the battlefield cause you know arguing on the internet is like winning the paralympics
anyway im not joining this flame war ill let you children play
on topic: imho commanding style differs from person to person and it also depends on your team. effective squad wont need UAV that much and a bunch of smurfs doesnt watch their radar anyway, wich seems so on karkand most of the time, only the skilled players make use of the possibilities the game has to offer.
last word to our little pranksters: meet up tonight and lay down your dispute on the battlefield cause you know arguing on the internet is like winning the paralympics
Great post Draconis. Thanks for the pointers. I am just starting to take command and this kind of stuff is helpful.IC_Draconis wrote:
The way of good commanding.
........
Ps: Now I could ramble on for ages but I think in short that's all.
Hope that helps. Feel free to add some to the list or change it.
Have a nice day!
There were some good points (and counter-points) in the other posts too, so thanks for all the info ..
I hate people who don't scan before using the UAV, and then they get a blank UAV, arghhh!
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