BF2S Forums just a reminder as to who the bad guys are in Iraq.

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

So war the pro-Independence forces in the American War of Independence.

Read your history books and tell mere the colonists killed women and children for their cause.

Have you ever heard of the Sand Creek massacre Lowing?

I could lie and google it but I will be honest and say, no I haven't.

just googled it Cam. and 2 things

1. NOT part of the AMerican revolution that bubbalo tried to compare.

2. I can not or will not ever defend the actions of the US for their treatment of the American Indians. Never have never will. Now, time warp to the 21st. century.

Last edited by lowing (2006-11-14 15:23:09)

yeah, i think we proved in our revolutionary war that an insurgency can eventually make a better trained, better equipped, and more experienced military give in.  we pretty much invented that tactic...  the brits were way better armed and experienced in battle, we just flabbergasted them by not lining up and marching at them...  we hid in the woods and picked them off until they'd had enough and just said "fuck it."

The event invloved the slaughter of about 200 indians. Pretty barbaric stuff.


The horror of the massacre was only outdone by the displaying of dead fetus and genitalia in a theatre somewhere as people gasped and cheered.

Oh yeah, not one of our brighter moments.

Lowing what is your problem, yes i do blame Bush 2,800 US troops 120 UK troops killed by terrorists (some may call them freedom fighters not all Iraqis want us there). They should be punished no doubt about it. But who put them there to be killed in pointless war for oil.
Bush is a criminal the war was against international law. Stop protecting him all the time. And if i read right some group of German lawyers are now preparing a lawsuit for Rumsfeld. Why, he broke the law. Criminals. If they got put to prison would you still protect him.

lowing wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

Oh, YEAH, I'm totally with those terrorists.  I mean, Bush is such a great president I need SOMEONE to make him look like an incompetent, asshole, and failure in order for us liberals to get people to vote for that not-so-liberal-anymore Democratic party. 

lowing, honest to god, I don't know what in the name of Jesus Christ went wrong with you.  Liberals have repeatedly spammed into your fucking face from day one that we DON'T side with terrorists, hell, even a lot of us, including me, say that we SUPPORT the god damn war in Afgahnistan.  You know.... that one country which really was harboring terrorists?  If you ever expressed ANY sort of doubt that MAYBE you're wrong, then I wouldn't flame you so much.  But the truth is, you have proven to all of us your delusional and cannot be taken seriously.  Don't tell us what WE fucking believe.

I don't tell you what you believe, I tell you how you come across.

1. YOU bash Bush and the US 10 times more than terrorists.

2. YOU post threads that say the US actually attacked itself so we could go to war in the ME.

3. YOU call Bush a war criminal, which is bullshit, but I neverread anywhere from you that the terrorists are war criminals.

4. YOU blame Bush for ALL the deaths in Iraq, you do not blame the terrorists.

5. YOU think terrorists should be negotiated with and understood.

6. YOU have even post topics debating who is the bigger terrorist Bin Laden or Bush. 

7. hell, you have even blamed BUSH for the fuckin weather. (Katrina)

So don't preach to me about my "black and white view on the world" the topics posted in this forum by you all reeks of black and white. It is all Bushes fault, it is all Israels fault. Never mind the ME was all screwed up and violent long before Bush OR Israel. YOur black and white view on the world is, get rid of Bush and get rid of Israel and we will all be running throw the fields holding hands feeding unicorns and shit. DOn't talk to me about BLACK AND WHITE. And the funny thing is. most of you talking shit still live with your parents and don't really even have a clue as to the "REAL WORLD " is all about.

worth repeating I was afraid this would get lost in the thread since none of you will touch it. lol

Bubbalo wrote:

Dec45 wrote:

You're right... It's not up to the Iraqi police to police their Iraq.

The US tore apart the old structures, and created the new ones.  If the new structures fail to protect Iraqis, who's fault is that?

Were the old structures protecting Iraqis? Forcibly oppressing a demographic doesn't sound like protection to me. Is there no room to contemplate the probable outcome, that Iraq was going to have sectarian violence either way? Someone's got to take power.

lowing wrote:

lowing wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

Oh, YEAH, I'm totally with those terrorists.  I mean, Bush is such a great president I need SOMEONE to make him look like an incompetent, asshole, and failure in order for us liberals to get people to vote for that not-so-liberal-anymore Democratic party. 

lowing, honest to god, I don't know what in the name of Jesus Christ went wrong with you.  Liberals have repeatedly spammed into your fucking face from day one that we DON'T side with terrorists, hell, even a lot of us, including me, say that we SUPPORT the god damn war in Afgahnistan.  You know.... that one country which really was harboring terrorists?  If you ever expressed ANY sort of doubt that MAYBE you're wrong, then I wouldn't flame you so much.  But the truth is, you have proven to all of us your delusional and cannot be taken seriously.  Don't tell us what WE fucking believe.

I don't tell you what you believe, I tell you how you come across.

1. YOU bash Bush and the US 10 times more than terrorists.

2. YOU post threads that say the US actually attacked itself so we could go to war in the ME.

3. YOU call Bush a war criminal, which is bullshit, but I neverread anywhere from you that the terrorists are war criminals.

4. YOU blame Bush for ALL the deaths in Iraq, you do not blame the terrorists.

5. YOU think terrorists should be negotiated with and understood.

6. YOU have even post topics debating who is the bigger terrorist Bin Laden or Bush. 

7. hell, you have even blamed BUSH for the fuckin weather. (Katrina)

So don't preach to me about my "black and white view on the world" the topics posted in this forum by you all reeks of black and white. It is all Bushes fault, it is all Israels fault. Never mind the ME was all screwed up and violent long before Bush OR Israel. YOur black and white view on the world is, get rid of Bush and get rid of Israel and we will all be running throw the fields holding hands feeding unicorns and shit. DOn't talk to me about BLACK AND WHITE. And the funny thing is. most of you talking shit still live with your parents and don't really even have a clue as to the "REAL WORLD " is all about.

worth repeating I was afraid this would get lost in the thread since none of you will touch it. lol

I was gone answer that, LOL, but then Lisik's name came to my mind.LOL. did he write that , seriously ?

lowing wrote:

got know idea who you are talkin' about.

dnt wry.need sleep.

in a place as fucked up as iraq is right now, there are no good guys and bad guys

smtt686 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

You really are a close minded generalizing little person.  Not everyone is split between two camps you know.

I've had a relatively drawn out debate with Lowing recently and I really tried very hard with him, I really did, and it remained quite civil but in the end degenerated into typical Lowing-speak (not directed at me - at another forum member but it rolled back on any progress he had made on the reasonabless front) . I've worked him out now. He is of the Bush mentality 'you're either with us or against us'. He is a dyed-in-the-wool 'two categorisations for everything' intransigent. Something most reasonable people would find hard to understand. Such a black-and-white view of the world is not helpful one bit. It can't be reasoned with and one should ask the question 'why bother?'. The only time one should bother with such a warped mentality is when someone like that gets into power.

cameron, you should take your own advice.

LOL. I'm not a black/white categorisation merchant. Unless it's horrifically ridiculous I can see and understand the opposite opinion to mine and I can also understand many of the reasons why someone would choose to hold and value those opinions. If I don't agree with them I'll generally use facts and non-emotive language to illustrate my point and then listen to the counter-point. Sometimes the person I'm arguing with concedes a point, sometimes I concede a point. In the end we usually reach a point upon which you have to say 'we'll agree to disgaree'. I think you'll find I'm actually one of the more reasonable and logical people on this forum. I like to rile people up from time to time with petty flamebaiting for my own amusement but anyone who has engaged me in proper debate will realise I'm not so bad.

For instance: I know full well why people think capitalism is the answer to everything and it does have a lot of merits. My feelings on the matter though are that unbridled capitalism is unhealthy and government intervention to a limited extent is used to regulate it and maintain a civil, egalitarian, free and caring society. That's hardly a black and white view of things. If that were the case I'd either say: "Communism or nothing!!" or "Capitalism or nothing!!!"

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-11-14 16:23:32)

lowing wrote:

Please Cameronpoe, don't tell me you just suggested mudering innocent women and children ISN"T "horrifically rediculous" and you CAN understand the opposite opinion of those that do it.

***Shock horror***

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Please Cameronpoe, don't tell me you just suggested mudering innocent women and children ISN"T "horrifically rediculous" and you CAN understand the opposite opinion of those that do it.

***Shock horror***

??? well???

I can't understand or empathise with someone who purposely murders an innocent person or in the case of war, a civilian non-combatant. I can see maybe why someone might do it if driven crazy with revenge but it's not condonable.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-11-14 16:30:34)

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

***Shock horror***

??? well???

I can't understand or empathise with someone who purposely murders an innocent person or in the case of war, a civilian non-combatant. I can see maybe why someone might do it when driven by revenge but it's not condonable.

oh ok, cuz I though you had suggested the we try and understand the terrorists and their cause then try and appease them so they stop killing.