Flasheart88
Member
+0|7063|Brisbane
Two things to say:

1. To those pilots who say they switch to bombs straight away, I say that one of the things that grinds my gears the most in the 'vehicle-friendly' maps. Nothing is more annoying than having your ass handed to you by a blackhawk/cobra combo, while your own planes are off at the other side of the map looking for ground targets. I maintain that the *primary* purpose of the fighter planes (not necessarily the fighter/bombers) is to provide air cover for ground units and transport aircraft. Unfortunately there are too many airjockeys who think that planes are just for getting your K/D ratio up. I've played in a Clean Sweep game where it was pretty obvious that the two main pilots (one on each side) had a private agreement not to kill each other (they flew past each other many, many times) and just bombed opposition targets.

2. Carrier AA is not nearly as bad as people here are making out, in my opinion. When I play Wake Island, I often take the score 'hit' and snooze my way through the round in the AA gun, punctuated by brief moments of excitement of course. At the end of the day, making the main spawn point safe is very important to your team's success, methinks.

Sitting in the AA all round, I very very rarely get fewer kills than deaths, and I think it's just a matter of timing. Sure, the missiles suck, but they can be effective if you wait for the right moment. See, you sit there, scanning the horizon, and when you spot someone, you ping them, fire one missile and start firing the gun. First time around, the pilot will be lining up his bombs to take out the deck aircraft, and usually will miss you with the bombs if he changes course. Either way, you time your gun to follow him on the fly past, and then you launch 3 missiles when he's only metres away. You should have recaptured the lock by then. Assuming you're a decent shot with the gun, one missile should be enough.

If he survives, or when he respawns, hopefully, most pilots will be determined to get revenge and while he's rearming and returning, you repair your gun if necessary, and then wait to do it all over again. There is no question that there are some ace pilots out there that are good at coming in at angles difficult for you to get them in this manner, but as soon as you recognise that, you get someone, perhaps the CO to man the other AA gun and drive them off.

I totally sympathise, GotMex, but with the PLA chopper, spraying it with gatling gun-fire usually does the trick, plus it has the added benefit of perforating anyone trying to bail out.
Possum61
Member
+9|7051|Philly PA USA
I have over 200 kills on the AA on the essex. But like you guys the missles suck. I will give you some advice that works for me, If you get lucky and the plane is flying away from you fire as many missles that you can. That is how i get my kills. Sometimes it will take 3 or 4 or up to 8 but it works for me

Last edited by Possum61 (2005-11-08 15:57:38)

DrDestruction
Utilityman
+1|7081
Use the Phalanx (the name of the big-domed Essex gun).  It's much more effective.  Missiles are a waste of a mouse click when you can just use that puppy.  However, I do feel your pain.  Same pain as when I fire a TOW at a helo and it seems to go right through it (as a result of game lag once in a while).  Just use the Phalanx gun next time.

I think what's more frustrating is when you try to kill something flying over your deck.  I can't tell you how many times Ive blown up the friendly plane (that spawns right next to the gun/missile battery) on the end of the carrier with the missiles I fire (the missile launcher being on a lower plane than the the carrier deck and thus the aircraft, and when I aim up it shoots right up into the plane's tailpipe) and having a pilot trying to take the plane bitch me out for "shooting his plane for no reason".  Anyone else think the missile launcher should be placed higher and off to the side to avoid this issue?

As for the choppers taking tank shells and 30-mm rounds, GAME BALANCE as someone said.

It's the same reason the M95 doesn't kill with one shot.

Last edited by DrDestruction (2005-11-08 20:22:50)

cannon_fodder
Member
+0|7015

DrDestruction wrote:

As for the choppers taking tank shells and 30-mm rounds, GAME BALANCE as someone said.

It's the same reason the M95 doesn't kill with one shot.
I agree that there needs to be balance but I was getting base-raped by the Mi28 on the ESSEX (our only base AND we had an enemy APC in the rear-dock as well). I didnt moan, I spawned as AT, Killed the apc with 2 shots and then got 3 shots on the helo before the gunner got me....3 AT MISSILES TO THE BODY and it hardly smoked.
I can kill a full health attack chopper using the 50 cal on the jeep (easy when there trying to cap and you are too close to them to see). But ANY chopper taking more than 3 AT missiles is fantasy (Shields up Mr Spock!)

On another map It took 2 hits with a TOW to kill a cobra who was trying to cap when earlier in the map I killed an ABRAMs with 1 hit.

Balance ..yes but dont have choppers with more armor than tanks!!

Last edited by cannon_fodder (2005-12-19 15:24:21)

JaM3z
Banned
+311|7013
black hawks suck the chain guns are to powerful one bullet and your toast maybe another patch to fix this problem EA?
ghostgr
177th Field Artillery
+39|7044|In your head
Has it ever occured that if you don't like it don't play the game?

No offense man but I feel your pain too but bitching about it doesn't seem to get EA'Dice's attention. so maybe if enough people stop playing and buying maybe they will pull their head out of there asses.

Again guys no offense to first sentence.
RasorX
Member
+17|7046|Indianapolis

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

alizard wrote:

yes, after they've been fired and don't go for the intended target
So it's their own stupid fault if they don't take evasive actions?
Not exactly.  As a pretty competent pilot i can avoid 95% of enemy AA missles(fired from jet and ground) but for some strange reason friendly missles are much harder to evade.  It seems to me that if you fire a missle at a target and it gets drawn off to a NEW target then it wont lose lock on the second target.  I have had friendly missles flying at me from literally a half map away and i drop flares and the missle doesnt even flinch.

As for the orginal poster's pain, i feel you.  Even firing the cannon on the carrier wont do much against choppers.  You can take down any helo in the game much much much much faster with any vehicle mounted .50 cal than you can the mega-cannons on the carrier.  I've never done the experiment but i would wager you could fire those things till overheat twice in a row and barely have a transport chopper down past half health.  Why are those things so weak anyway?
.:ronin:.|Patton
Respekct dad i love u always
+946|7112|Marathon, Florida Keys

Sud wrote:

I like to call them AT missiles. Anti-Teammate missiles.
n1 lol
https://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/patton1337/stats.jpg
-|V2^Fraggus
Member
+0|7010|Belgium

Vicious wrote:

aircraft in general has too much armour, I remember shooting an AH-1Z or whatever its called, with the tanks main gun, while peppering it with  machine gun fire.

It languidly turns around to me, and blasts me with rocket fire.

I also remember playing mashtuur, and as usual USMC were dominating because they had a decent blackhawk pilot.

We hit the blackhawk with 3 AT shots right after the other, all 3 of us are mowed down by the chaingun, and it slowly heads back to rep up.

(btw, mashtuur would be an awesome map if the blackhawk was removed, as it is it's a joke)
Actully Mashtuur is pretty easy as mec , just depends on the tacs you use.  When spawning as mec. jump in the "Vod" with a couple guys and head straight for the" BackYard" there tank spawn. If you're on time you can get it before they do , if your not just sneak arround the back and snatch there tank from under there noses (after they take the flag it takes some time to spawn you you can get it if you're fast).. Now don't stay there to take back the spawn , you prolly wont make it so make a run for it with there armor. By now you're teammates should have taken the Powercentral so that'ts 2 tanks for Mec  yey!. Now head for there hill spawn take it over and go blackhawk hunting with 2 "big guns".  I usually play this tac with 4 to 6 of my clan members on the same server , when on of 'em is commander, the USMC  just don't stand a chance. 150 to 0 win scores are no exceptions as mec ))
-|V2^Fraggus
Member
+0|7010|Belgium

Flasheart88 wrote:

Two things to say:

1. To those pilots who say they switch to bombs straight away, I say that one of the things that grinds my gears the most in the 'vehicle-friendly' maps. Nothing is more annoying than having your ass handed to you by a blackhawk/cobra combo, while your own planes are off at the other side of the map looking for ground targets. I maintain that the *primary* purpose of the fighter planes (not necessarily the fighter/bombers) is to provide air cover for ground units and transport aircraft. Unfortunately there are too many airjockeys who think that planes are just for getting your K/D ratio up. I've played in a Clean Sweep game where it was pretty obvious that the two main pilots (one on each side) had a private agreement not to kill each other (they flew past each other many, many times) and just bombed opposition targets.
Bombs and rockets are for noobish pilots, Two reasons why.

1.U Usually get way more teamkils the enemy kills.
2.rocket locks allert enemys and scare them of or give them the possibility to avoid you.

The good guys shoot down any thing with there rattling guns  ))
-|V2^Fraggus
Member
+0|7010|Belgium

cannon_fodder wrote:

DrDestruction wrote:

As for the choppers taking tank shells and 30-mm rounds, GAME BALANCE as someone said.

It's the same reason the M95 doesn't kill with one shot.
I agree that there needs to be balance but I was getting base-raped by the Mi28 on the ESSEX (our only base AND we had an enemy APC in the rear-dock as well). I didnt moan, I spawned as AT, Killed the apc with 2 shots and then got 3 shots on the helo before the gunner got me....3 AT MISSILES TO THE BODY and it hardly smoked.
I can kill a full health attack chopper using the 50 cal on the jeep (easy when there trying to cap and you are too close to them to see). But ANY chopper taking more than 3 AT missiles is fantasy (Shields up Mr Spock!)

On another map It took 2 hits with a TOW to kill a cobra who was trying to cap when earlier in the map I killed an ABRAMs with 1 hit.

Balance ..yes but dont have choppers with more armor than tanks!!
1 .Not taking fully manned blackhawks down after 3 shot  ....  =>   2 mecanics fixing it in flight.
2. M95not killing after one shot  ... => does the word headshot ring a bell ??? you prolly missed the head.
3. 2 Tows for a Cobra .... just a freaking bug ... if had that as well as pilot, some guy fired it at me and i didn't lose 1 little bar of health.  bug bug bug.

Taking down a cobra with an MG in just a few seconds .... ermm where is the super armor you just talked about. ???

Not really a balance matter imho.

Last edited by -|V2^Fraggus (2005-12-20 04:50:45)

RKF77
Member
+1|7054

[RL]Tarasque wrote:

Problem is we got 10000 of shitty pilots witch aa works like a charm agains. It's when the odd AcE hits the skies shit hits the fan. If AA becomes to powerfull the average player wont last 10 sec's in a jet. So how can you balance that?
Survival of the fittest.  Those shitty pilots can go take a tank, or a buggy, or go groundpound it.

Coding for the lowest common denominator is a very bad thing.  That's why we have overpowered jets and choppers, bunnyhoppers and dolphins.

[RL]Tarasque wrote:

Anyways i cant say i envy EA's dev team when it comes to AA vs Air balance
Amen to that.
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|7024|Sydney, Australia

RasorX wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

alizard wrote:

yes, after they've been fired and don't go for the intended target
So it's their own stupid fault if they don't take evasive actions?
Not exactly.  As a pretty competent pilot i can avoid 95% of enemy AA missles(fired from jet and ground) but for some strange reason friendly missles are much harder to evade.  It seems to me that if you fire a missle at a target and it gets drawn off to a NEW target then it wont lose lock on the second target.  I have had friendly missles flying at me from literally a half map away and i drop flares and the missle doesnt even flinch.
So true, but also it has to do with warning time as well.

As you know, when an enemy has a lock you get a beeping tone. This allows for you to try evasive manuvers.
When you have a missle on your tail you get a solid tone - no beeping.

So when mr.friendly missle comes at you from behind, you get maybe 1-2 sec of solid tone before you are hit. That is not much time to evade. You don't get the warning that an enemy fighter gives.
Ub3r-ElitE
Teargas wh0re
+2|7023

GotMex? wrote:

OK, this to me was the ultimate proof that the AA in this game has the worst coding ever invented. (I know, it's been beaten to death, but goddam I am pissed off). I was playing Wake getting carrier raped by two douches on jets. I really wanted to fly cobra but there was no way of taking off without getting shot down so I figured I'd sacrifice and go AA. I went to the one in the middle of the carrier and just targeted the plane basically for the rest of the round. I wasn't expecting much since I know the missles suck. Never did manage to take him down.

Well, to my surprise, the PLA decide to bring their chopper over and try and land on our carrier. Lucky for me I'm already in the AA. Now get this, the chopper was practically hovering towards us, like at 1mph, I had perfectly clear view of it, hell I could've shot it down with anti-tank as it was flying so straight and slow. So finally I target it, AA locks on, I shoot 3 missles, and I'm practically savoring the 5 kills I'm about to get Annnnd....

And the FUCKING MISSLES fly straight to the chopper, as soon as they are about to hit they spiral practically around the chopper rerouting completely, and then one of them actually manages to hit one of our own planes nearby. (For which I get punished of course). I was stunned by this, I wish I had taken a videocap of this because it was just ridiculous. After that I got pounded by the raping plane and they managed to land on the carrier and proceeded to destroy us without mercy. I just took it like a man because it is obvious to me that there was nothing to be done.

I'm gonna try and get some video of some of this disgusting AA action, maybe EA doesn't realize what's going on with them missles. As it stands, one good pilot is all it takes to hold back an entire army (read: 16 people) from capturing Wake Island.
You could've taken the chopper down with the cannon in like 2 seconds

Agreed, AA sucks.
Echo
WOoKie
+383|7023|The Netherlands
I ve used the aa on the essex a couple of times and the missiles are rubbish, usually they ll end up hitting friendly's for some strange reason. The gatling gun is okay tho, i managed to take out a couple of choppers with it. Btw i ve heard ea's gonna do something about the missile lock in the next patch so lets wait and see.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7039|Salt Lake City

Possum61 wrote:

I have over 200 kills on the AA on the essex. But like you guys the missles suck. I will give you some advice that works for me, If you get lucky and the plane is flying away from you fire as many missles that you can. That is how i get my kills. Sometimes it will take 3 or 4 or up to 8 but it works for me
I don't like Wake, so I don't play it much, but that is exactly how I shot down the one jet I've managed to get with a missile.
idiotofwar
Jet Rammer
+4|7030|Debris From Space
It's brilliant of you want to TK people, since it is more accurate against team mates than actual enemies.

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