Last edited by nlsme (2006-11-08 18:07:48)
lowing, someone has to do the dirty work. If they can't support their family while they do it, society falls apart. There are more jobs at low wage then there are salaried. Kids can't necessarily do it, they're often only in the labor market for a short time, and are often advancing themselves as you keep screaming for them to do. What then? Your proposed 'solution' falls short.lowing wrote:
A fair wage is what YOU have made yourself worth. 10 dollars an hour for flipping a fuckin burger is pretty outrageous.Bertster7 wrote:
All wages are adjusted for inflation. Minimum wage should be too.lowing wrote:
So basically, punish an employer and steal HIS money, so these people don't have to apply themselves..You do know that all that eventually falls back on our laps right??
Which of the alternatives would you prefer? Money direct from the tax payer in benefits? That's what they'll be claiming if they don't get increases in minimum wage, benefits cost more as well due to all the bureacracy involved. If theres one thing I really hate it's a lot of bureaucracy.
It's not about punishing employers, it's about forcing them to pay a fair wage.
Here is another thought. Minimum wage is NOT meant to support a family. YOU are responsibable for making yourself marketable to support a family. YOU need to EARN your wage, not just be given it without any effort on your part.
Your pay is based on your value. It doesn't do your 30year old ass any good to be able to something ( flip a burger) that 100,000,000,000, KIDS can do. It really really is time for you all to get real.
Wrong. Maybe overall but the initial impact would be what I said. Sales (at markup %)- overhead = profit margin. Overhead includes wages among other things. In a store/company if your sales are not increasing vs your payout in salaries you are losing money. To not lose money you cut back manpower by laying off and keep employees who have a higher return on investment. Then morale goes down etc. Leave it where it is, to sudden of a spike will buck the system. A sudden spike in spending will cause a later period of fiscal conservatism due to debt and the income to debt ratio.Spearhead wrote:
Already explained, inflation. Inflation doesn't decrease the margin in profit, it makes up for the increased margin of profit.deeznutz1245 wrote:
deeznutz1245 wrote:
Most people who work minimum wage do not have a great return on investment to begin with. Why would you pay them more money to do the same amount of work. An employers profit and loss margin would plummet, and you would eventually be laid off.
That's why most countries adjust minimum wage by age. The $10.19 in the UK is for those over 22.kr@cker wrote:
why stop at ten? let's keep going to a good 15 an hour for flopping whoppers, perfectly reasonable
this hype is going to continue as long as we let them perpetuate the illusion that minimum wage is meant to be lived off of, you can't seriously argue that the 15 year old at the grocery store bagging groceries in a manner deserving anything higher than $6.
over here minimum wage is minimum wage, doesn't matter how old you are, once you hit the job market you get itTy wrote:
The reason school age people are not givn the full minimum wage is because the cheap labor is their no. 1 selling point. Here's a scenario: An employer has a choice of two people, one an unexperianced school kid, the other someone who's older and has more experience. If the school kid is cheaper and the level of employment dosn't really require any experiance, then the kid will get the job. On te other hand, if they both will be paid the same amount then the logical choic would be to hire to guy with more experiance.
My solution??!!!.............A minimum wage job ( flipping burgers) is NOT meant to be a family supporting job!!...Who is gunna do it??!!!.........well how about after the high school senior moves on, the high school junior or sophmore takes the job? After all it has been working that way pretty damn well for quite some time.......jonsimon wrote:
lowing, someone has to do the dirty work. If they can't support their family while they do it, society falls apart. There are more jobs at low wage then there are salaried. Kids can't necessarily do it, they're often only in the labor market for a short time, and are often advancing themselves as you keep screaming for them to do. What then? Your proposed 'solution' falls short.lowing wrote:
A fair wage is what YOU have made yourself worth. 10 dollars an hour for flipping a fuckin burger is pretty outrageous.Bertster7 wrote:
All wages are adjusted for inflation. Minimum wage should be too.
Which of the alternatives would you prefer? Money direct from the tax payer in benefits? That's what they'll be claiming if they don't get increases in minimum wage, benefits cost more as well due to all the bureacracy involved. If theres one thing I really hate it's a lot of bureaucracy.
It's not about punishing employers, it's about forcing them to pay a fair wage.
Here is another thought. Minimum wage is NOT meant to support a family. YOU are responsibable for making yourself marketable to support a family. YOU need to EARN your wage, not just be given it without any effort on your part.
Your pay is based on your value. It doesn't do your 30year old ass any good to be able to something ( flip a burger) that 100,000,000,000, KIDS can do. It really really is time for you all to get real.
Besides, minimum wage was ONCE worth 10 2006 dollars, but inflation slowly reduces it to nothing. Never raise minimum wage, and eventually no one in America survives, and we see The Great Depression Part Deux.
No, he was totally right. Firms employing workers at minimum wage have slowly paid their workers less and less due to inflation, raising the minimum wage is intended only to compensate for inflation.deeznutz1245 wrote:
Wrong. Maybe overall but the initial impact would be what I said. Sales (at markup %)- overhead = profit margin. Overhead includes wages among other things. In a store/company if your sales are not increasing vs your payout in salaries you are losing money. To not lose money you cut back manpower by laying off and keep employees who have a higher return on investment. Then morale goes down etc. Leave it where it is, to sudden of a spike will buck the system. A sudden spike in spending will cause a later period of fiscal conservatism due to debt and the income to debt ratio.Spearhead wrote:
Already explained, inflation. Inflation doesn't decrease the margin in profit, it makes up for the increased margin of profit.deeznutz1245 wrote:
when was this?jonsimon wrote:
Besides, minimum wage was ONCE worth 10 2006 dollars, but inflation slowly reduces it to nothing. Never raise minimum wage, and eventually no one in America survives, and we see The Great Depression Part Deux.
lol, yeahd4rkst4r wrote:
its not that simple, wheres this magically money coming from???
you dont just wake up one day and sign a little form and everyone in america who works minimum wages gets that, are you in like elementary school?
Last edited by blademaster (2006-11-08 18:20:50)
if you're over 22 and out of school you and NOT making at least 10 on your own you should be sterilized to prevent perpetuating your lamitude throughout the gene pool. the general rule i had always heard was $1000X your age after your 21 til you're 30, I surpassed that by 20 and am at twice that now, and haven't hit 30 yet.Bertster7 wrote:
That's why most countries adjust minimum wage by age. The $10.19 in the UK is for those over 22.kr@cker wrote:
why stop at ten? let's keep going to a good 15 an hour for flopping whoppers, perfectly reasonable
this hype is going to continue as long as we let them perpetuate the illusion that minimum wage is meant to be lived off of, you can't seriously argue that the 15 year old at the grocery store bagging groceries in a manner deserving anything higher than $6.
It's not the over all wage, it's the size of the increase. Raising minimum wage by $0.50 or $1 wouldn't have that much of an impact, but raising it by $4.50 will cause a lot of inflation.TheEternalPessimist wrote:
UK minimum wage converts to $10.18, so its perfectly fair specially as your economy is much bigger.
Except the labor market doesn't work that effeciently. Frictional and structural unemployment prevent your perfect little world from occurring. Oh, and the fact that students are an incredible minority in the labor market, and the minority of minimum wage workers as well. We're not talking about giving high schoolers mounds of cash, we're talking about giving ADULTS enough money to scrape by on. Again, lowing believes society can function without the poor, and expresses his classist discrimination against anyone not born to a functional suburban family.lowing wrote:
My solution??!!!.............A minimum wage job ( flipping burgers) is NOT meant to be a family supporting job!!...Who is gunna do it??!!!.........well how about after the high school senior moves on, the high school junior or sophmore takes the job? After all it has been working that way pretty damn well for quite some time.......jonsimon wrote:
lowing, someone has to do the dirty work. If they can't support their family while they do it, society falls apart. There are more jobs at low wage then there are salaried. Kids can't necessarily do it, they're often only in the labor market for a short time, and are often advancing themselves as you keep screaming for them to do. What then? Your proposed 'solution' falls short.lowing wrote:
A fair wage is what YOU have made yourself worth. 10 dollars an hour for flipping a fuckin burger is pretty outrageous.
Here is another thought. Minimum wage is NOT meant to support a family. YOU are responsibable for making yourself marketable to support a family. YOU need to EARN your wage, not just be given it without any effort on your part.
Your pay is based on your value. It doesn't do your 30year old ass any good to be able to something ( flip a burger) that 100,000,000,000, KIDS can do. It really really is time for you all to get real.
Besides, minimum wage was ONCE worth 10 2006 dollars, but inflation slowly reduces it to nothing. Never raise minimum wage, and eventually no one in America survives, and we see The Great Depression Part Deux.
Raising the minimum wage doesn't cause inflation, it adjusts for inflation. As it is, your paycheck is adjusted for inflation, in fact, everyones is, so I guess we should stop doing that too, for fairness.mcgid1 wrote:
It's not the over all wage, it's the size of the increase. Raising minimum wage by $0.50 or $1 wouldn't have that much of an impact, but raising it by $4.50 will cause a lot of inflation.TheEternalPessimist wrote:
UK minimum wage converts to $10.18, so its perfectly fair specially as your economy is much bigger.
Quite right. What many people don't seem to understand is that the purchasing value of minimum wage is falling, so it is no longer the same. At the very least the purchasing value of minimum wage should stay the same.jonsimon wrote:
No, he was totally right. Firms employing workers at minimum wage have slowly paid their workers less and less due to inflation, raising the minimum wage is intended only to compensate for inflation.deeznutz1245 wrote:
Wrong. Maybe overall but the initial impact would be what I said. Sales (at markup %)- overhead = profit margin. Overhead includes wages among other things. In a store/company if your sales are not increasing vs your payout in salaries you are losing money. To not lose money you cut back manpower by laying off and keep employees who have a higher return on investment. Then morale goes down etc. Leave it where it is, to sudden of a spike will buck the system. A sudden spike in spending will cause a later period of fiscal conservatism due to debt and the income to debt ratio.Spearhead wrote:
Already explained, inflation. Inflation doesn't decrease the margin in profit, it makes up for the increased margin of profit.
bs have you ever ran a company? ever heard of overhead?if you raise that overhead by 30% then you have to increase your product price.if every company had to raise their product price then everything would inflate.jonsimon wrote:
Raising the minimum wage doesn't cause inflation, it adjusts for inflation. As it is, your paycheck is adjusted for inflation, in fact, everyones is, so I guess we should stop doing that too, for fairness.mcgid1 wrote:
It's not the over all wage, it's the size of the increase. Raising minimum wage by $0.50 or $1 wouldn't have that much of an impact, but raising it by $4.50 will cause a lot of inflation.TheEternalPessimist wrote:
UK minimum wage converts to $10.18, so its perfectly fair specially as your economy is much bigger.
Last edited by nlsme (2006-11-08 18:17:10)
I did say overall , right? Because you mentioned slowly, indicating over a sustained period of time. Which is what I said. I spoke about the "initial" impact in which I was right. I know this because I do it for a living. I am an asset protection executive and I deal with companies profit margins every day. Let the record please show I never had anything to do with Enron.jonsimon wrote:
No, he was totally right. Firms employing workers at minimum wage have slowly paid their workers less and less due to inflation, raising the minimum wage is intended only to compensate for inflation.deeznutz1245 wrote:
Wrong. Maybe overall but the initial impact would be what I said. Sales (at markup %)- overhead = profit margin. Overhead includes wages among other things. In a store/company if your sales are not increasing vs your payout in salaries you are losing money. To not lose money you cut back manpower by laying off and keep employees who have a higher return on investment. Then morale goes down etc. Leave it where it is, to sudden of a spike will buck the system. A sudden spike in spending will cause a later period of fiscal conservatism due to debt and the income to debt ratio.Spearhead wrote:
Already explained, inflation. Inflation doesn't decrease the margin in profit, it makes up for the increased margin of profit.
Yes, but you are casting it in poor light. You're making it seem like the employer is losing something, when the fact is that they've been slowly gaining at the worker's expense. The 'over time' or 'long term' part of the cycle is already over, the result needs to be an adjusted wage. Overall occurs as soon as the wage is increased.deeznutz1245 wrote:
I did say overall , right? Because you mentioned slowly, indicating over a sustained period of time. Which is what I said. I spoke about the "initial" impact in which I was right. I know this because I do it for a living. I am an asset protection executive and I deal with companies profit margins every day. Let the record please show I never had anything to do with Enron.jonsimon wrote:
No, he was totally right. Firms employing workers at minimum wage have slowly paid their workers less and less due to inflation, raising the minimum wage is intended only to compensate for inflation.deeznutz1245 wrote:
Wrong. Maybe overall but the initial impact would be what I said. Sales (at markup %)- overhead = profit margin. Overhead includes wages among other things. In a store/company if your sales are not increasing vs your payout in salaries you are losing money. To not lose money you cut back manpower by laying off and keep employees who have a higher return on investment. Then morale goes down etc. Leave it where it is, to sudden of a spike will buck the system. A sudden spike in spending will cause a later period of fiscal conservatism due to debt and the income to debt ratio.
That's the point, for the past years the employer has been paying you less for the same amount of work. Raising the minimum wage is just giving the worker the same value for his work that he used to get.kr@cker wrote:
if you want $10 an hour then get a job worth it. wow, you're 22, big deal. so the job that was worth 6 an hour is now magically worth 10, is your employer getting better performance out of the position for the sole fact that you're older now?