DBBrinson1 wrote:
[CANADA]_Zenmaster wrote:
Lawl - what about American terrorism, and its support for said terrorism through military, financial, and political support for "useful" terrorist organizations, terrorist leaders and ensuing crimes? You think islamofacist groups are the only terrorists in the world?
Haw fucking haw, read some books, because that is where fact has been relegated to. Anything you witness in American society is just puppeteering.
I don't even know why I bother making these points; it is like 90% of the American world is too lazy to read or to get a BALANCED education on an issue, before they stick their neck out and make some asinine remark. It is not like the facts aren't out there, the whole world isn't oblivious...
BTW not that some Americans haven't realized by now how fucked up the American machine is - it is just that, there seems to be so many conceited, unsupported viewpoints that America is right regardless of fact, and it is just to be blindly supported in any action it takes, as being for the good of the whole. Like the opinion expressed succinctly in one sentence above. LAFF
Are you kidding me? American Terrorism? Like all the humanitarian aid? Like the Navy Seals de-mining a harbor in Iraq allowing humanitarian relief ships into Iraq? How many Americans that you've read about strap bombs to themselves and go to the local coffee shop?
What books do you suggest? Mien Kamph (sp). Screw hitler- I won't even dignify his book with correct spelling.
I am educated. Even have a fancy piece of paper to prove it. A BA in political science from FSU. What's your education? You are right though, the whole world isn't oblivious. On 9-11 America woke up.
Screw you guys who aren't "on board" with us. Maybe we should cut aid to your country or stop trading with you. We buy your crap. We don't have to, we could get it elsewhere. Have fun growing your own rice and manufacturing your own penicillin and other antibodies.
Electrical Engineering (6 years of University). I do not have my degree, I am 8 courses + 4 more months of work away. I have done 6 years so far (It is a working + schooling program).
You majored in political science and this is your viewpoint? Thats HI-FUCKING-LARIOUS... lmao you don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to your opinion - hence my earlier point, you base your opinion on heresay, not on fact, hence you are entitled to your opinion, but it is irrelevant in an academic discussion.
Let's be realistic, that is all this is, an academic discussion, because frankly people like you are so ignorant, you could be (and are) blatantly wrong but you will always refuse to see the truth, because you are ideological, not factual. Terrorists may use ill means to achieve their ends, but in that method, and in being ideaological about why they do it, they are not any different then your government machine. Further to that point both your government and other terrorists have more then just ideology behind their sick example. E.g. American gov't wants security of resources, hegemony over the globe in essence, whereas the terrorists are sick of their countries and inherent resources getting used and abused, men blown up for US political ends, children and wives, brothers and sons, killed in front of their faces, while the events causing such action go
unreported in all but the most insignificant reference in the mighty USA. That is the other half of your problem - your mainstream media "religiously" ignores anything to do with unpopular American foreign policy. That is another story though, but nonetheless anyone with a pea sized brain would be able to see the taint that has taken over your media in the last 50 years.
One point needs to be made - terrorism is bad by both sides, and the terrorist movement is recruiting young individuals who are too dumb to even know what they are fighting for anymore (if anything other then to do something to get fed, have power, or to blow shit up) - and yes, terrorists are fucking sick blowing up civilians and being bloody tyrants themselves. That is not my point, that America is the only terrorist regime out there, my point is that America is not above using, supporting, and actually executing terrorist maneuvers. Terrorists have been incited, and indeed trained by the CIA and also by America's military and economic policy against other nations, and now it is coming back to bite America in the ass. Unsuprising really, moving on though...
So listen, saying that blah blah I have a BA (in political
science ideology) no less, only makes you look like an idiot given your viewpoint. Honestly, you are fucking blind there is no other way to put it. Now that I've put that out there I will make a brief tip of the iceberg reply to your accusation - mainly because other people may be interested. I know you are too ignorant to bother reading anything or looking up fact, and getting the other side of the story, but maybe just maybe there is someone else down there, who will be. You will just snort when I suggest some books to you, and continue your inane posts on bf2s thinking you are right and the world is wrong. Oh well, someone else smarter then you will pick up your slack and hopefully your country won't bring about anymore reasons for nuclear holocaust in my lifetime.
I suggest two
factual books with extensive references written by an American author who is not tainted by your idealogical thought, but rather resorts to fact and historical record (included in an extensive Appendix in each book), instead of rhetoric and the constant, wave your left hand so nobody sees what the right hand is doing/has done.
His name is Noam Chomsky, and the books are "Failed States" and "Hegemony or Survival." There are many more books like this, but you have to be careful of when those other books drift from fact, historical record and common sense, into a similar but opposite theme of the current government. Those books are just bush killers, whereas Chomsky sticks to facts, and tells it like it is - e.g. the Democrats are sleazy just like the Republicans, but the current Republicans are stripping away citizen rights, environmental laws, ramping up the war machine at taxpayer expense, and most importantly sealing the American policy that attacking in self-defense is an act of self-defense, and then ignoring every international community of law in dealing with such matters.
Forums of discussion that were setup with Americas help post world war II (the last time you guys can honestly think your
whole government was focused on helping the world whole-heartedly (unlike the shit they proclaim now), and don't forget that it was Russia that saved everyones ass - yet we don't read their history books do we? We don't even read history history books, we read whatever shit is government approved for our nations children). Anyways moving on, read the books, and there are many more, but Chomsky does the best job of putting fact into book form and avoiding the taint of a hugely liberal agenda. It is not like nobody understands that any given country wants security, or that any given country with enough power will abuse it, the point is that, what America has undertaken to such ends, do not justify those ends. Your government has been convicted by international law time and time again of illegal use of force, e.g. terrorism. Yet nothing happens, because American finance, and American policy/military run the world by being top dog, so nobody can do anything about it, even though they want to. Just wait, if another country like China takes top spot, wait till you hear the American protest about their atrocities, meanwhile ignoring their own sordid history...
So some quick cases of terrorism / crimes against humanity (this is a short list of things - there is a lot more just read some books):
In no particular order:
- Cuba / bay of pigs
- Nicaragua
- El Salvador (military aid and training)
- Chile
- Iraq
- Haiti (love how the US military blocked all humanitarian aid to basically starve out the population - this is all fact by the way, grab the two books, check out the index, and sit down for a few weeks of reading)
- Israel (really do I need to say anything? my favorite report: one Palestinian wanted to show a European reporter what the overwhelming response via over-use of force was like against the Israeli army - He shot one bullet straight into the air, and the town he was in recieved two hours of constant shelling from tanks, artillery and gunmen. This is a civilian town by the way. The European reporter was horrified. Yet this is established Israel policy - but in any circumstance not just military conflict; Israel always resorts to violence, and on such an overpowering magnitude that it has no relevance to the initial "crime" be it a real crime or not, Israel will blow the fuck out of anyone who gets in their way, and then bulldoze their entire town, so Israel can expand to the choicest spots. Israel gives the US a meaningful influence of security into the middle eastern sphere, e.g. Israel has been useful for the US gov't, hence you guys support them with economic dumps, and military hardware and ammunition. If you withdrew your support from Israel, they would be toast given their always attack mentality.
- Libya (wow you bombed them on national TV proclaiming they were going to execute terrorist attacks against America - yet the proclaimed planned attacks were false (to boot the American intelligence was the only one who "heard" of intended attacks, Egypt and Sudanese intelligence saying the alleged plot was bullshit) - yet everyone in America applauded your terrorist act on live TV! yay good job Reagan!!)
- Two decades of war and terrorism in Afghanistan to defame the Russians 1980s, The Americans prompted this result for their own ends (CIA recruited and trained terrorist groups to combat this war), but the Americans did not actually do the killing - the CIA created terrorists did. Yet the result, Afghanistan decays into a terrorist haven and civil war ensues.
- Support for Algeria (terrorist atrocities supported by Clinton's State Department)
-> Oh heres a goody: International record: "Up to 200,000 Algerians have been slaughtered in the eleven years since the military cancelled that country's first democratic elections because an Islamist party won" (Hence US support for the current regime - because they don't want Islamists in control).
- Supported South Africa (1980s), ignoring their practices of 1.5 million dead, 60 billion damage against the newly liberated colonies of Angola and Mozambique. UNICEF states 850,000 dead infants and young children. Democracy is on the march! (not)
- Support for Uzbekistan Islam Karimov
- Support for Turkmenistan's Saparmurat Niyazov
- Supported Ceausecu (Romania) before he was overthrown by unanticipated popular revolt
- Support for Equatorial Guinea Teodoro Obiang (a bloody tyrant given full honors by president Bush in 2002)
- Supported for Mobutu Sese Seko, Zaire, notorious killer and torturer (given honors by Bush I)
- Supported Indonesia's President Suharto - famed barbarism
- Panama, Manuel Noriega, steals election by violence and fraud, US secretary of state Schultz flies to Panama to personally congratulate him
-> But wait, theres more, Manuel later becomes a bad man! So US bombs the shit out of the Panamanians, more civilians die then your current fallen in Iraq. Yet nobody cares...
- Support for Saddam while he was useful, until he foolishly invaded kuwait, oops now you are bad man!
OK thats enough to make me sick, but theres shit piles more you just have to grab some books. I want to say something to people who do have a brain - it is not that the American people are inherently bad, it is that your government has been out of control for 50 years with no restraints - both parties have been party to this shit, and ultimately your vote may not matter a whole lot, but getting an education and having a balanced outlook, in the long run, somewhere you may just have a chance to make a difference, and if you don't have the education to realize that you can make a difference, then all is lost.
A little help to get you started:
http://www.chomsky.info/ (remember this is just one guy, pretty much the top author in this political field - e.g. telling the truth nobody wants to hear, but there are many more authors out there with good books too, but like I said, be careful that you don't fall into a liberal agenda trap book that is just hogwash in the opposite direction of Bush rhetoric).
In summation, your reference to my viewpoints being directly correlated to Hitler, shows how idealogical you are. You try to deface my writing simply by saying oh look your just like Hitler (based on no fact what-so-ever, a perfect case of the left hand waving to ignore right hand action - hence your idealogical viewpoint, not a factual viewpoint). Comparing anything to Hitler does not dismiss the points I made - you failed to address anything other then to say that Americans don't strap bombs to themselves or that Americans demined a harbor which was in their own self-interest anyway.
Which is interesting because, yes America has been good at times (and there still can be a lot of good from your country - but with Bush in power, not only is it bad for the world, for the security of the world [talk about policy backfire], but indeed it is bad for your citizens rights, jobs, and environment), back to the point - America has been good at times but usually only when it is in their own self-interest, not that that is a fault, but you cant tout it if you are only doing it out of self-interest and to proclaim how great you are. Secondly, there are millions of Americans, and many of them are crazy enough to kill other Americans, vis-a-vis truck bombs into appartment buildings, going on sinper sprees, 10,000 killed with guns each year, etc. so it is not like your population is the holy grail of the world either buddy. There are millions of good people, but it only takes a few bad ones to cause a lot of damage, kind of like Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Bush. Do they spoon feed you your rhetoric? At least that is a legitimate question, unlike your unbelievable comparison of anything I said to Hitler's Mein Kampf. Get a grip tard.
Edit: You may find these useful:
http://www.americanempireproject.com/ch … _notes.htmBTW the sum output of your education was to compare me to Hitler. You've come a long way!
Last edited by [CANADA]_Zenmaster (2006-11-08 10:49:35)