Has anyone noticed Poe has used a shitload of LOL! in everythread?
Y do people OWE the current Americans??? most of the people who did help us are dead now, we owe you people nothing, and don't forget that other nations fought as well and won battles, not just the Americans.
and yet another thread that should have been honoring all war dead blinded and sidetracked by ignorance and blind patriotism *sigh* good job guys, real good job
There are better ways of honouring war dead than by posting a thread in a debate forum knowing full well what type of response it may attract.
No, the topic really is as simple as I put it. It is intended to remind us of the sacrifices American troops have made, not whether or not the wars they fought in were justified. Unsurprisingly, like every other thread you post in, you decide to go off on a tangent with some anti-US/anti-Israel rant. You feel this inherent need to interject your anti-US or anti-whatever comments even when the thread doesn't warrant them. God forbid someone actually posts something complementing the US:CameronPoe wrote:
c) 'The point of this thread is simple, but not surprisingly most of you still missed it.' - The point of this thread is simple and yet you missed it: ATG tried to not so subtly mention the Iraq war in the same breath as WWII, which is an insult to those that fought WWII. If I were a WWII vet and someone was trying to associate defeating the most evil tyrant this planet has ever seen (Hitler) with being the aggressor in a war of 'regime change' in a country that posed little or no threat to the US then I would feel very insulted. The work and sacrifice all US soldiers do and make is beyond doubt. The not so subtle association of the causes of WWII and Iraq is flawed and disrespectful.
This thread was never about the soldiers - it was about trying to associate the two wars as if they were comparable
Blinded by hatred? I think so.CameronPoe wrote:
The Marshall Plan didn't have anything to do with Ireland. Simple as. The rest of Europe yes. Ireland no.
Had he mentioned them, I'm sure you would have approved :CameronPoe wrote:
otherwise ATG would have posted pictures of the graves of Panamanian US war dead, Grenada US war dead, US civil war dead, Korean US war dead, Vietnam US war dead, etc. etc. Were they not worthy of a mention????
CameronPoe wrote:
LOL. No disrespect to the fallen but Iraq will not be looked upon like WWII. It will be looked upon like Vietnam. A farcical misadventure that wasted many American lives.
The above quotes would suggest otherwise, and there's plenty more in your post history. In fact, finding a post of yours that is NOT anti-US, anti-Bush, or anti-Israel would prove to be quite a task.CameronPoe wrote:
d) I am NOT anti-US, I am anti-BUSH.
In short, we get it. You hate the US. You hate Israel. As long as the topic warrants it, hate them all you want. Just leave it out of threads that have nothing to do with it.
Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2006-11-06 02:14:58)
Lets mention the USSR once more and give it the credit it deserves.Nicholas Langdon wrote:
russia did get the credit it deservers..... just not in american school systems, i know i was taught about it. they get far more credit than the americans for winning the war in europe. just not in the states.fadedsteve wrote:
Very true! The win against Nazi Germany was hugely aided by the Russians, no doubt about it!Spark wrote:
For example I have not heard a SINGLE mention of the USSR in this thread. Yet they could arguably be the most important entity in this whole conflict.
The Russians suffered staggering losses. . . .
I don't know why the Russians aren't given as much credit as they deserve??
I will say this, and you heard it here. . . .Stalingrad lost the war for the German's (Germany just could not recover from the losses they suffered there), NOT DDay!
Granted, Russia might not have lasted if it wasnt for allied shipments of supplies during the initial surprize attack by the Germans. But the fact remains, Russia should take as much credit as us Americans for winning the war in Europe.
ALL those who fight/die in the name of freedom, democracy and liberty should be prayed for, not just a select few!
USSR and Nazi Germany had a non-aggression treaty from 1939 until 1941. Essentially Stalin and Hitler agreed that USSR could take Baltic countries and Finland and Hitler could have Poland. USSR and Nazis had an agreement and were "buddies" until Hitler broke the pact. Baltic went to USSR and Poland was taken by Germany. Finland refused to be part of USSR and was then attacked by the USSR.
So what I am saying is this: despite the fact that USSR helped to take Hitler down, they cant be compared to the USA or given as much credit, because the USSR was an attacker, not solely an attackee.
PS. Russia is not the same as USSR
Edit: typo
Last edited by SpaceApollyon (2006-11-06 03:49:23)
Fenris_GreyClaw wrote:
Fenris_GreyClaw wrote:
if the OP didn't only aim the remembrance at American soldiers that were killed, then this wouldn't have been such a flame war.
many people need to realize that this is a multi-racial forum, and any post about one particular country/race/religion will be met with flames from all directions.
if ATG had maybe posted one graveyard pic for/from each Allied country then i doubt this would have happened.
America isn't the only country to remember people lost in wars on the 11th of November.
LEST WE FORGET any who were lost. from any country.
TBH, i blame the Serbians who started WWI.
krazed wrote:
and yet another thread that should have been honoring all war dead blinded and sidetracked by ignorance and blind patriotism *sigh* good job guys, real good job
Well you're entitled to ignore the apology and subsequent thanks I gave for my error. That's your prerogative. Hatred? LOL. I have American friends and travel to America regularly. Not something people who 'hate' something would normally do. I particularly like the dressing down your sig buddy Steven Colbert gave Bush and Republicans in general at the White House Correspondents Dinner - you should look it up on YouTube.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
No, the topic really is as simple as I put it. It is intended to remind us of the sacrifices American troops have made, not whether or not the wars they fought in were justified. Unsurprisingly, like every other thread you post in, you decide to go off on a tangent with some anti-US/anti-Israel rant. You feel this inherent need to interject your anti-US or anti-whatever comments even when the thread doesn't warrant them. God forbid someone actually posts something complementing the US:Blinded by hatred? I think so.CameronPoe wrote:
The Marshall Plan didn't have anything to do with Ireland. Simple as. The rest of Europe yes. Ireland no.
I guess we'll never know. But I can tell you now in retrospect that I would have respected the thread a bit more as it would have been agenda-free.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Had he mentioned them, I'm sure you wouldn't have approved :CameronPoe wrote:
otherwise ATG would have posted pictures of the graves of Panamanian US war dead, Grenada US war dead, US civil war dead, Korean US war dead, Vietnam US war dead, etc. etc. Were they not worthy of a mention????
How does the first quote denote hatred for the US? I am bemoaning the pointless waste of human American life in Iraq. It's the exact opposite of hatred. I am wishing them life, not death!!! PS Israel? What has this got to do with the topic? You do know that USA and Israel are two separate entities yes?Fancy_Pollux wrote:
CameronPoe wrote:
LOL. No disrespect to the fallen but Iraq will not be looked upon like WWII. It will be looked upon like Vietnam. A farcical misadventure that wasted many American lives.The above quotes would suggest otherwise, and there's plenty more in your post history. In fact, finding a post of yours that is NOT anti-US, anti-Bush, or anti-Israel would prove to be quite a task.CameronPoe wrote:
d) I am NOT anti-US, I am anti-BUSH.
PS Bush's approval rating is circa 35%. That means I agree with about 65% of Americans. It's you who is in the minority buddy.
Contribute to my thread if you like...
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=29391
My you're sensitive. I fail to see why you keep referring to Israel when I haven't mentioned them in this thread. You seem to have an 'Israel' chip on your shoulder much like my 'anti-Israel' chip. For your information I went to see a movie last night by a jewish comedian and one of my personal heroes is Sigmund Freud - a jew. Larry David, a jew, is another person I admire greatly and enjoy his comedy. Get off your anti-semitism bullshit high horse.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
In short, we get it. You hate the US. You hate Israel. As long as the topic warrants it, hate them all you want. Just leave it out of threads that have nothing to do with it.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-11-06 02:35:50)
lol i bet China lost most during all their civil wars and warlord reignRicoAtPublix wrote:
But none more then us Yankees.
You say that now, but your post history says the opposite:CameronPoe wrote:
Hatred? LOL. I have American friends and travel to America regularly. Not something people who 'hate' something would normally do.
http://forums.bf2s.com/search.php?search_id=2065866582
While you may not hate the individual US citizen, you certainly hate the US as an entity:CameronPoe wrote:
How does the first quote denote hatred for the US? I am bemoaning the pointless waste of human American life in Iraq. It's the exact opposite of hatred. I am wishing them life, not death!!!
http://forums.bf2s.com/search.php?search_id=2065866582
Not even the most blatantly anti-US posts on this forum wish its citizens death.
Because anti-Israel posts comprise a large bulk of your posts. Even though you haven't specifically mentioned Israel in this thread, it is one of two things you love to predictably rant about, supporting my claim that these types of predictable posts are becoming tiresome. I wasn't exaggerating when I said that I didn't have to read any post longer than a paragraph yet still know exactly what you were ranting about:CameronPoe wrote:
I fail to see why you keep referring to Israel when I haven't mentioned them in this thread. You seem to have an 'Israel' chip on your shoulder much like my 'anti-Israel' chip.
http://forums.bf2s.com/search.php?search_id=2065866582
Once again, while you do not hate the citizens, you do hate Israel as an entity:CameronPoe wrote:
For your information I went to see a movie last night by a jewish comedian and one of my personal heroes is Sigmund Freud - a jew. Larry David, a jew, is another person I admire greatly and enjoy his comedy. Get off your anti-semitism bullshit high horse.
http://forums.bf2s.com/search.php?search_id=2065866582
Saying "I love jewish comedians" or "I have plenty of friends in the US" isn't a convincing argument.
Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2006-11-06 02:42:14)
Current US government Pollux - CURRENT US GOVERNMENT. Not USA. Repeat NOT USA.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
While you may not hate the individual US citizen, you certainly hate the US as an entity.
You don't have to read my posts.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Because anti-Israel posts comprise a large bulk of your posts. While you haven't specifically mentioned Israel in this thread, it is one of two things you love to predictably rant about, supporting my claim that these types of predictable posts are becoming tiresome.
I hate the current Israeli government and far right elements (zionists) Pollux - GOVERNMENT does not = PEOPLE or COUNTRY. OK? Especially in the US where the president has an approval rating in the 30s.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Once again, while you do not hate the citizens, you do hate Israel as an entity:
PS I have posted several times my desire to see a safe and secure state of Israel within 1948 borders, living side by a side peacefully with a Palestinian state. Hardly hatred.
A convincing argument is that to me all people are equal regardless of skin colour, creed, gender or sexual orientation. The nationality of the individual matters nothing. You wish to portray me as a racist, which I AM NOT.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Saying "I love jewish comedians" or "I have plenty of friends in the US" isn't a convincing argument.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-11-06 02:57:51)
CameronPoe wrote:
GOVERNMENT does not = PEOPLE or COUNTRY. OK?
You speak like a politician. I did not accuse you of being racist. I accuse you of posting the same tiresome rants over and over in every thread so long as it has even the slightest hint of anything pro-US or pro-Israel. The specificities of what you hate is not a significant point in this argument and changes nothing. What's significant is that it's all you rant about. Here, you're trying to shift the argument away from it's actual point, like you did when you initially replied to this thread. But one inevitability remains to contradict all of it: your post history. So, try approaching this not in the manner of a politician and address the point of the argument. Are you denying that anti-US/anti-Israel posts comprise a large bulk of all your posts? Don't respond to that by denying that you hate a particular ethnic group, because that is not what I am accusing you of.CameronPoe wrote:
A convincing argument is that to me all people are equal regardless of skin colour, creed, gender or sexual orientation. The nationality of the individual matters nothing. You wish to portray me as a racist, which I AM NOT.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Saying "I love jewish comedians" or "I have plenty of friends in the US" isn't a convincing argument.
Your terminology is what is incorrect but if you mean that the bulk of my posts are critical of the USFancy_Pollux wrote:
CameronPoe wrote:
GOVERNMENT does not = PEOPLE or COUNTRY. OK?You speak like a politician. I did not accuse you of being racist. I accuse you of posting the same tiresome rants over and over in every thread so long as it has even the slightest hint of anything pro-US or pro-Israel. The specificities of what you hate is not a significant point in this argument and changes nothing. What's significant is that it's all you rant about. Here, you're trying to shift the argument away from it's actual point, like you did when you initially replied to this thread. But one inevitability remains to contradict all of it: your post history. So, try approaching this not in the manner of a politician and address the point of the argument. Are you denying that anti-US/anti-Israel posts comprise a large bulk of all your posts? Don't respond to that by denying that you hate a particular ethnic group, because that is not what I am accusing you of.CameronPoe wrote:
A convincing argument is that to me all people are equal regardless of skin colour, creed, gender or sexual orientation. The nationality of the individual matters nothing. You wish to portray me as a racist, which I AM NOT.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Saying "I love jewish comedians" or "I have plenty of friends in the US" isn't a convincing argument.
government and the Israeli government and far right elements within then you would be 100% correct.
This thread has becoming typical of what the D&ST forum has become. Personal attacks a plenty, closed mindedness and rail roading. OK there are obviously two sides here who are prity hardcore in their views. When you get passionate about something, stop, think and remember that they are passionate in their views also. When you rant people generally switch off and don't read your posts. When you post a well thought out post the more discerning poster tips their hat to the point, even if they don't necessarily agree with it and formulate their own argument.
What I am seeing ATM is people ignoring points and switching straight to personal attacks instead of taking the time to type a post which address the points and makes an argument. DEBATE. Instead its abuse and people trying to bolster their own self esteem by pointing out typo's as if it makes someone stupid because they see this as a forum were they air their views and don't read through meticulously using a Theseus and a dictionary to Analise every word, while at the same time totally ignoring the point making themselves look stupid.
This forum has become a place for some people to try and make themselves look much more intelligent and well informed than they are. How many time have I seen posts were the point is totally ignored, instead a personal ego enhancing attack if dished out. I admit I am starting to do the same out of frustration!!
I used to enjoy the jousting with the regulars, Ok we don't see eye to eye, but their was the tongue and cheek and the odd tip of the hat. Now you get jumped on for spelling and have your entire post history analyzed by board college kids dragging up previously long dead posts. SAD.
What I am seeing ATM is people ignoring points and switching straight to personal attacks instead of taking the time to type a post which address the points and makes an argument. DEBATE. Instead its abuse and people trying to bolster their own self esteem by pointing out typo's as if it makes someone stupid because they see this as a forum were they air their views and don't read through meticulously using a Theseus and a dictionary to Analise every word, while at the same time totally ignoring the point making themselves look stupid.
This forum has become a place for some people to try and make themselves look much more intelligent and well informed than they are. How many time have I seen posts were the point is totally ignored, instead a personal ego enhancing attack if dished out. I admit I am starting to do the same out of frustration!!
I used to enjoy the jousting with the regulars, Ok we don't see eye to eye, but their was the tongue and cheek and the odd tip of the hat. Now you get jumped on for spelling and have your entire post history analyzed by board college kids dragging up previously long dead posts. SAD.
First off Bud, We had plans of entering WW2 at a later date, Japans attack just made it faster AND it made us have to fight TWO wars. As for America supporting dictatorships, In a world where(back then what you had was mostly dictatorships) you Tried to pick the least Evil one to back, hopeing to swing them in the direction of democracy. Sometimes it worked sometimes it didnt. It was a gamble, a gamble we had to take, because if we didnt, countries like Russia would have tried there influence and then gotten a bigger foothold in the world. It was a matter of startagy in most cases, and one in which we tried to protect our allies intrests and safty also. Things dont always go as planed.Bubbalo wrote:
Yes, how kind of you to defend freedom as and when it suits you. Need I remind you that it wasn't until after Pearl Harbour that you joined WWII? And that in Vietnam you supported a corrupt government? Or that you supported an Iranian dictatorship (in fact, that you've supported many dictatorships)?ATG wrote:
America does not offer up these most important sacrifices for nothing.
If there are any American soldiers who think that I owe them, fuck them. Australian soldiers don't declare that their people owe them. They merely expect the same rights as anyone else.
So, ATG, how about you go think about the fact that more Australians died per capita in WWI than any other nation, or the fact that even as the Japanese advanced on Australia our troops held Tobruk for our European allies. Then how about you stop telling me what I do or don't owe anyone.
But then again, when most of the world says there needs to be something done about This country or that country, yet sit on there asses and do nothing, they usually sit stareing at the US and ask, "Hey, could you take care of this? If it goes ok, we will be behind you 100%, if not, We will rip you apart in the world opinion polls". Thats about what it boils down too.
Just like Iraq, Every sane person will say Saddam was evil and needed to be removed, even the Anti war crowd, But ill be damed if they had any better plans. Numerouse useless sanctions wernt working and the people were starving and dying a slow and painful death. Ahhh But we get a swift kick in the nutz for removeing the evil one for the world. Everyone agreed he need to go, But look what we get in return.
Bah!
But they joined because of peal harbour. The cargo ships was a contributing factor but cannot be compared to pearl harbourcyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
No, they joined for 2 reasons..teddy..jimmy wrote:
USA only joined WWII because of Pearl Harbour..
Pearl harbour and German U-boats preying on American cargo ships sending supplies to Britain.
Oh geez Cameron, if I could have put a picture of William Wallaces grave, I would have. However;
I have a vested interest in choosing to honor American soldiers;
1) I do believe that America has shed more blood for other people than any other nation.
2) Sgt. Joseph Clark, my Great Uncle was with Patton army for five years. He came back unscathed, but couldn't deal with the ptsd, he died sitting in his pickup with a bottle of whiskey. Leatham Jenson, my other Great Uncle, was a Marine pilot. He died ina POW camp on Dabamthau ( spelling? ) island. My Uncle Steven Clark was a MP in Saigon during TET. You can see it in his eyes. I could pull out a book and list 30-40 other names of people on just my moms side of the family who have served WW2, Korea, Vietnam and more, including one Navy pilot now in the gulf.
3) I have confidence that history will decide that the war in Iraq was the right thing to do, for an honorable purpose, and briliantly fought. It's hard to judge world events as they are happening, you need a few decades to see the fallout and judge unbiasedly. I could be wrong, and am admitedly no fan of Bush, but I still believe in the concept behind the mission.
4) This war came at a time in my life when it wasn't reasonable for me to go; I'm too old and have too many people who depend on me. But I really want to be there.
So everybody unwad their panties and if you feel like honoring your nations soldiers, please do so here in what ever manner pleases you.
I have a vested interest in choosing to honor American soldiers;
1) I do believe that America has shed more blood for other people than any other nation.
2) Sgt. Joseph Clark, my Great Uncle was with Patton army for five years. He came back unscathed, but couldn't deal with the ptsd, he died sitting in his pickup with a bottle of whiskey. Leatham Jenson, my other Great Uncle, was a Marine pilot. He died ina POW camp on Dabamthau ( spelling? ) island. My Uncle Steven Clark was a MP in Saigon during TET. You can see it in his eyes. I could pull out a book and list 30-40 other names of people on just my moms side of the family who have served WW2, Korea, Vietnam and more, including one Navy pilot now in the gulf.
3) I have confidence that history will decide that the war in Iraq was the right thing to do, for an honorable purpose, and briliantly fought. It's hard to judge world events as they are happening, you need a few decades to see the fallout and judge unbiasedly. I could be wrong, and am admitedly no fan of Bush, but I still believe in the concept behind the mission.
4) This war came at a time in my life when it wasn't reasonable for me to go; I'm too old and have too many people who depend on me. But I really want to be there.
So everybody unwad their panties and if you feel like honoring your nations soldiers, please do so here in what ever manner pleases you.
There is no doubt that there are a LOT of selfless and heroic US servicemen and women, that many people spread across the entire globe are indeed indebted to and owe them deep gratitude. I'm sorry if I sounded disrespectful because I don't have any disrespect for them. My only gripe was the Iraq association, the equation of the cause of WWII with that of Iraq, which of course we are 180o apart on in terms of our viewpoints.ATG wrote:
Oh geez Cameron, if I could have put a picture of William Wallaces grave, I would have. However;
I have a vested interest in choosing to honor American soldiers;
1) I do believe that America has shed more blood for other people than any other nation.
2) Sgt. Joseph Clark, my Great Uncle was with Patton army for five years. He came back unscathed, but couldn't deal with the ptsd, he died sitting in his pickup with a bottle of whiskey. Leatham Jenson, my other Great Uncle, was a Marine pilot. He died ina POW camp on Dabamthau ( spelling? ) island. My Uncle Steven Clark was a MP in Saigon during TET. You can see it in his eyes. I could pull out a book and list 30-40 other names of people on just my moms side of the family who have served WW2, Korea, Vietnam and more, including one Navy pilot now in the gulf.
3) I have confidence that history will decide that the war in Iraq was the right thing to do, for an honorable purpose, and briliantly fought. It's hard to judge world events as they are happening, you need a few decades to see the fallout and judge unbiasedly. I could be wrong, and am admitedly no fan of Bush, but I still believe in the concept behind the mission.
4) This war came at a time in my life when it wasn't reasonable for me to go; I'm too old and have too many people who depend on me. But I really want to be there.
So everybody unwad their panties and if you feel like honoring your nations soldiers, please do so here in what ever manner pleases you.
It's not surprising that we would express differing views on the topic in a thread like this.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-11-06 08:48:22)
yes i realize this, the person who responded to me didnt so i put it into terms they understand, dont try to be superior by stating this. and yes regardless of the fact that they had a non agression pact, they did far more for the war effort than the US did, so dont play them down simply because they had their own agenda at the beginning of the war. every country has their own agenda, such as the states selling war supplies to the british untill their money ran out. why join a war when you can make money off of it.SpaceApollyon wrote:
PS. Russia is not the same as USSRNicholas Langdon wrote:
russia did get the credit it deservers..... just not in american school systems, i know i was taught about it. they get far more credit than the americans for winning the war in europe. just not in the states.fadedsteve wrote:
Very true! The win against Nazi Germany was hugely aided by the Russians, no doubt about it!
The Russians suffered staggering losses. . . .
I don't know why the Russians aren't given as much credit as they deserve??
I will say this, and you heard it here. . . .Stalingrad lost the war for the German's (Germany just could not recover from the losses they suffered there), NOT DDay!
Granted, Russia might not have lasted if it wasnt for allied shipments of supplies during the initial surprize attack by the Germans. But the fact remains, Russia should take as much credit as us Americans for winning the war in Europe.
ALL those who fight/die in the name of freedom, democracy and liberty should be prayed for, not just a select few!
Edit: typo
Canada has only ever lost people defending others we must be a close runner up if that is trueATG wrote:
1) I do believe that America has shed more blood for other people than any other nation.
gotta respect our Northern friends. they even kicked our ass a couple hundred years ago.
That defends on your defintion. In fighting the Gemans you were aiding your British allies who were expected to aid you if you were attacked.Spumantiii wrote:
Canada has only ever lost people defending others we must be a close runner up if that is trueATG wrote:
1) I do believe that America has shed more blood for other people than any other nation.
its still defending others bubbalo....
All those soldiers will respawn when they have:
a) A captured base.
b) An alive team leader.
c) An available non-cap base.
a) A captured base.
b) An alive team leader.
c) An available non-cap base.