No ıt's partly to do wıth a) a gıgantıc tourısm boom and b)the fact that necessıty ıs the mother of ınventıon and effıcıency (havıng to be resourceful because they can't sıt back and relax for one mınute). It seems every second European ıs goıng there these days. I met a shıtload of Canadıans out there too.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
could it be that the economy in cuba is growing simply because instead of having the soviet union be the meal ticket, its Hugo chavez and his political adventures of today? just a question but if thats the case then the cuban economy will only grow as long as chavez is president, which is not indefinate.
We should all listen to steven colbert
Last edited by DirtyMexican (2006-10-26 13:34:13)
I kinda know what your saying. My mother comes from an island nation as well, where frugality and solidarity are common traits in the character of the peopleCameronPoe wrote:
No ıt's partly to do wıth a) a gıgantıc tourısm boom and b)the fact that necessıty ıs the mother of ınventıon and effıcıency (havıng to be resourceful because they can't sıt back and relax for one mınute). It seems every second European ıs goıng there these days. I met a shıtload of Canadıans out there too.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
could it be that the economy in cuba is growing simply because instead of having the soviet union be the meal ticket, its Hugo chavez and his political adventures of today? just a question but if thats the case then the cuban economy will only grow as long as chavez is president, which is not indefinate.
Fuck with the bull, you get the horns.
They should consider themselves lucky we didn't just take their little island from them after that missle crisis shit. So everyone thinks we should just forgive them for that just cuz it's a few years later? I think not. Same regime, same punishment. North Korea's no different. The US will talk when a new leader is appointed. Period.
They should consider themselves lucky we didn't just take their little island from them after that missle crisis shit. So everyone thinks we should just forgive them for that just cuz it's a few years later? I think not. Same regime, same punishment. North Korea's no different. The US will talk when a new leader is appointed. Period.
Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
Well if I were Cuban I wouldn't have any dealings with the US ever again either after all of the US shennanigans sınce 1898 in THEIR country. The problem is that the US are trying to blackmail others into sidelining them.King_County_Downy wrote:
Fuck with the bull, you get the horns.
http://xs108.xs.to/xs108/06434/Bull.png
They should consider themselves lucky we didn't just take their little island from them after that missle crisis shit. So everyone thinks we should just forgive them for that just cuz it's a few years later? I think not. Same regime, same punishment. North Korea's no different. The US will talk when a new leader is appointed. Period.
And the only way you can "sideline" someone is if you have something they want. Correct? "Do this, I'll give you that". Seems about right. What's your point?CameronPoe wrote:
Well if I were Cuban I wouldn't have any dealings with the US ever again either after all of the US shennanigans sınce 1898 in THEIR country. The problem is that the US are trying to blackmail others into sidelining them.
Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
So? Do you hear me giving you hell because your "articles" come from FOX? The article highlighted a problem with the world today, that Cuba still has to suffer because of the Cuban Missile Crisis. I challenge you to disprove any of the statements that are made in that article.Jenkinsbball wrote:
And, this "article" comes from the CPA - Communist Party of Australia. Fuck all you Communists cunt fucks. Worthless shit heads.
And with the Cuban Missile Crisis the only reasons the Soviet Union placed nukes in Cuba was because a year earlier America pressured Turkey into letting them place missiles in Turkey that could be fired at Moscow. Moscow saw this as a serious threat and responded adequately to defend themselves. Kennedy and Co talked it up that the missiles would be launched, turning it into a crisis when Khrushchev only wanted to defend Russia if it was attacked by the Americans from Turkey.
America also has no regard for International Law. During the Crisis the USA attempted to blockade Russian ships in International Waters, breaking threaties that the USA had signed on the matter. They also provoked Cuba by flying spy planes over Cuba and were strangely surprised when one of them got shot down.
Cuba has a right to rule itself despite whatever you Americans think. If you want to make more enemies, go ahead and invade Cuba but once again the International Community will not look lightly at you. If Fidel Castro and Co are the leaders of Cuba then talk with them, end the blockade and try to have some decent relations, like Nixon did during Detente. Not talking to him because he allowed missiles to defend his country from American attack or because he beat you at Bay Of Pigs is just stubborn and ridiculous. Cuba is no danger to America in general and all this crap about "allowing Cuba to be strong would be bad for America" is totally irrelevant.
Actually, we couldn't have taken cuba at the time anyway. They had nuclear artillery all ready to go, sure, they probably didn't have the authority to use them, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Kennedy saved our butts from another brutal defeat.King_County_Downy wrote:
Fuck with the bull, you get the horns.
http://xs108.xs.to/xs108/06434/Bull.png
They should consider themselves lucky we didn't just take their little island from them after that missle crisis shit. So everyone thinks we should just forgive them for that just cuz it's a few years later? I think not. Same regime, same punishment. North Korea's no different. The US will talk when a new leader is appointed. Period.
Just curious... I'm assuming you don't think it is a big deal, so why are you commenting on it?Jenkinsbball wrote:
I wonder why this isn't all over the news? This is the first time I'm hearing about it. If it was such a big deal as you're making it out to be, every fucking news channel would be running it, thinking they're the smart and clever ones to get it on the air first.
I think the main reason why we still have the Cuban embargo in place is because we have a significant Cuban voting bloc in Florida. The Cubans who flee Cuba absolutely hate Castro (understandably). They are also very patriotic toward the U.S. and are avidly Republican.
If effect, it's a special interests thing. Castro is relatively harmless at this point, but both America and Cuba love to talk shit about each other.
If effect, it's a special interests thing. Castro is relatively harmless at this point, but both America and Cuba love to talk shit about each other.
The embargo was placed when things were a lot different than they are now. The same guy may be in charge, but do those of you who support the embargo not accept that things may have changed since 1962? Hell, most of us weren't even alive then. Now we have terrorists to fear...but back then we would of had nuclear annihilation. Every single one us. Hell my mum told me how her class was pulled aside and given a big talk about it, she was told the world might end and given a quick "nuclear surivival" class...and thats in the arse-end of the Pacific! Is it like that now? Hell no!
Cuba is not a threat any more.
Cuba is not a threat any more.
Last edited by Pubic (2006-10-26 23:30:12)
Wrong. Cuba came this close |---| to sparking the annihilation of the human race. That same leader is still in power today. We would be foolish to do otherwise.TeamZephyr wrote:
Cuba has a right to rule itself despite whatever you Americans think.
Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2006-10-26 23:55:39)
It was the USSR and the US that came close to destroying the world, Cuba was simply the location from where it took place!
Bullshit, as I said in my previous post (if you actually bothered reading it) it was not only the US vs the USSR but the missiles were only put there in response to the missiles that the US put in Turkey, if the US didn't put the missiles in Turkey then the USSR would not have bothered putting missiles in Cuba. America in fact were the only ones that came close to destroying the world but provoking the Soviet Union by sending spy planes over Cuban airspace and blockading Soviet ships in International Waters.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Wrong. Cuba came this close |---| to sparking the annihilation of the human race. That same leader is still in power today. We would be foolish to do otherwise.TeamZephyr wrote:
Cuba has a right to rule itself despite whatever you Americans think.
The only reason it became a "crisis" was because of the massive overreaction from the American Media and the Kennedy Administration. Cuba has a right to rule itself and the Cuban people would not support any Batista like puppets that you try to install.
So Cuba has a leader that you don't like. Start to act like fucking adults and quit your childish bickering and "sanctions", get some real diplomacy happening and maybe you could find out that Cuba and the USA could coexist quite peacefully.
Last edited by TeamZephyr (2006-10-27 01:58:02)
Well said +1TeamZephyr wrote:
So Cuba has a leader that you don't like. Start to act like fucking adults and quit your childish bickering and "sanctions", get some real diplomacy happening and maybe you could find out that Cuba and the USA could coexist quite peacefully.
oh, of course, america forced castro to put nukes 90 miles away from miami and aim them at the US, silly me.
No, this crap about Castro putting nukes there is lies. Khrushchev and the Soviets put them there in response to America putting missiles in Turkey and pointing them at major Russian cities.kr@cker wrote:
oh, of course, america forced castro to put nukes 90 miles away from miami and aim them at the US, silly me.
Lies? Are you actually suggesting that the Soviets put nukes in Cuba without Castro even knowing? Castro allied with Soviets and allowed it to happen. The missiles in Turkey are irrelevant. They do not justify Cuba's actions, only the USSR's. You continue to argue that the USSR put missiles in Cuba in response to the American missiles in Turkey, but you fail to realize that the USSR's reason for putting missiles in Cuba has NOTHING to do with this argument. The argument is that embargo should not be lifted because the same regime that is in power today in Cuba is the same regime that allowed Soviet ships to transport troops and nuclear missiles into their country.TeamZephyr wrote:
No, this crap about Castro putting nukes there is lies. Khrushchev and the Soviets put them there in response to America putting missiles in Turkey and pointing them at major Russian cities.kr@cker wrote:
oh, of course, america forced castro to put nukes 90 miles away from miami and aim them at the US, silly me.
This leads me to wonder how far some of you are really willing to go to express your hatred of the US. We've already established the fact that you have no argument (well you do, it's just irrelevant to the topic at hand), yet you rant saying the US should act like "fucking adults". However, despite that you continue to ramble on. It's like you're shaking in anger and frantically typing the first words that come to mind. You hate the US? Fine. Just provide some logic and reasoning behind your claims and accusations, or at least pretend to, unlike the majority of anti-US posters here. The cliche "OMG I HATE AMERICA" and "OMG AMERICA INVADES EVERYONE" posts are becoming quite tiresome.
Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2006-10-27 11:54:01)
You guys are so busy getting yourselves into a tizzy that you've missed the most insightful post thus far. The one above.Turquoise wrote:
I think the main reason why we still have the Cuban embargo in place is because we have a significant Cuban voting bloc in Florida. The Cubans who flee Cuba absolutely hate Castro (understandably). They are also very patriotic toward the U.S. and are avidly Republican.
In effect, it's a special interests thing. Castro is relatively harmless at this point, but both America and Cuba love to talk shit about each other.
Do you really think that most Americans give a shit one way or the other about the Cuban sanctions? I'll tell you, they don't. This is a nonissue throughtout great swaths of the country. The one place its NOT a nonissue is in south florida, where the largest minority is expat Cubans. And let me tell you, they HATE Castro, the government, and everything to do with either of them continuing in power.
And they're in Florida. And they vote.
Lets not forget, good ole florida is a swing state, and the Cubano population is the pendulum. If you piss off the Cubans, you lose florida. Therefore, no president or presidential canidate can afford to do it. Not with 27 electoral college votes on the line.
So quit bitching at the rest of the country you freaking pinko commie liberals! I don't give two shits whether or not we blocade Cuba. I imagine I'd like to vacation there. I like the rest of the southern carribbean. They have good cigars there too. If you want to place blame, place it where its due. On the expats in south florida. And quit bashing my whole damn country 'cause you're too ignorant (or lazy) to figure out how it works here.
blisteringsilence wrote:
So quit bitching at the rest of the country you freaking pinko commie liberals! I don't give two shits whether or not we blocade Cuba. I imagine I'd like to vacation there. I like the rest of the southern carribbean. They have good cigars there too. If you want to place blame, place it where its due. On the expats in south florida. And quit bashing my whole damn country 'cause you're too ignorant (or lazy) to figure out how it works here.
Tony Montana wrote:
You tell your guy in Miami -- your friend -- I kill a Communist for fun, but for a greencard I'm gonna carve'm up real nice
The current upswing in the Cuban economy really started in 1994 after bottoming out in 1993. Growth has been largely constant since then long before Chavez was elected.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
could it be that the economy in cuba is growing simply because instead of having the soviet union be the meal ticket, its Hugo chavez and his political adventures of today? just a question but if thats the case then the cuban economy will only grow as long as chavez is president, which is not indefinate.
Certainly Venezuela's largesse hasn't hurt, but it only took a few years (3 exactly) for the Cuban economy to rebound from the loss of its Soviet benefactor.
I think he was takng issue with what kracker's statement implies, namely that it was Castro's decision to put nukes in Cuba, certainly he assented to their deployment by the Soviets, but the initial decision was not his to make, nor did the Cubans have access to the requisite technology.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Lies? Are you actually suggesting that the Soviets put nukes in Cuba without Castro even knowing? Castro allied with Soviets and allowed it to happen. The missiles in Turkey are irrelevant. They do not justify Cuba's actions, only the USSR's. You continue to argue that the USSR put missiles in Cuba in response to the American missiles in Turkey, but you fail to realize that the USSR's reason for putting missiles in Cuba has NOTHING to do with this argument. The argument is that embargo should not be lifted because the same regime that is in power today in Cuba is the same regime that allowed Soviet ships to transport troops and nuclear missiles into their country.TeamZephyr wrote:
No, this crap about Castro putting nukes there is lies. Khrushchev and the Soviets put them there in response to America putting missiles in Turkey and pointing them at major Russian cities.kr@cker wrote:
oh, of course, america forced castro to put nukes 90 miles away from miami and aim them at the US, silly me.
This leads me to wonder how far some of you are really willing to go to express your hatred of the US. We've already established the fact that you have no argument (well you do, it's just irrelevant to the topic at hand), yet you rant saying the US should act like "fucking adults". However, despite that you continue to ramble on. It's like you're shaking in anger and frantically typing the first words that come to mind. You hate the US? Fine. Just provide some logic and reasoning behind your claims and accusations, or at least pretend to, unlike the majority of anti-US posters here. The cliche "OMG I HATE AMERICA" and "OMG AMERICA INVADES EVERYONE" posts are becoming quite tiresome.
I will say that the major reason the Cuban embargo doesn't make sense lies with the eventual thawing of relations between the US and Soviets (a thawing that began following the Cuban Missile Crisis). If the US was willing to engage the main Cuban benefactor not even a full year after the crisis, what reason would the US have to continue an economic embargo with one of its satellite states almost 40 years following detente and more than 20 years after the thawing of US-Soviet relations in the mid-1980s?
See #44 above.Masques wrote:
If the US was willing to engage the main Cuban benefactor not even a full year after the crisis, what reason would the US have to continue an economic embargo with one of its satellite states almost 40 years following detente and more than 20 years after the thawing of US-Soviet relations in the mid-1980s?
Of course Castro knew about the missiles, but it was the Soviet Union who put them there and Khrushchev who ordered putting them there. If you wanna want to be so friggin anti-Castro you can trace his paranoia about the constant threat from the US back to the Bay Of Pigs, he needed a defense option because he didn't want to be invaded again. Same thing with Venezuela today, you tried to oust Chavez and now he is trying to arm himself to the teeth. Castro wanted a defensive option but he didn't ask Khrushchev for the nukes, Khrushchev wanted to respond for Turkey and the threat the Soviet Union was under from the USA's missiles. Cuba was just a place for Khrushchev to put his missiles.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Lies? Are you actually suggesting that the Soviets put nukes in Cuba without Castro even knowing? Castro allied with Soviets and allowed it to happen. The missiles in Turkey are irrelevant. They do not justify Cuba's actions, only the USSR's. You continue to argue that the USSR put missiles in Cuba in response to the American missiles in Turkey, but you fail to realize that the USSR's reason for putting missiles in Cuba has NOTHING to do with this argument. The argument is that embargo should not be lifted because the same regime that is in power today in Cuba is the same regime that allowed Soviet ships to transport troops and nuclear missiles into their country..TeamZephyr wrote:
No, this crap about Castro putting nukes there is lies. Khrushchev and the Soviets put them there in response to America putting missiles in Turkey and pointing them at major Russian cities.kr@cker wrote:
oh, of course, america forced castro to put nukes 90 miles away from miami and aim them at the US, silly me.
Who cares if it's the same regime that allowed soviet ships to come to his shores? Cuba is quite within it's right to have ships from whatever country they like and have trade with whatever country they like. Just because the USA doesn't like it is no excuse for breaking Interational Maritime Law. With that same logic should the Soviet Union have blockaded US ships going to Western Europe and placing troops in Germany and other Western European countries? No, because it's quite within the USA's right to have trade with whoever they please.
I love whenever someone trys to have a crack at America for anything all you people jump up and down going "OMG CLICHE, DAMN ANTI-BUSH ANTI-AMERICANS!" I'm going to say this now, I like your country. There are many American expats that go to my school and they are some of the nicest people I know. You've built a good country with a good constitution and America is defineately a place I will be visiting one day.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
This leads me to wonder how far some of you are really willing to go to express your hatred of the US. We've already established the fact that you have no argument (well you do, it's just irrelevant to the topic at hand), yet you rant saying the US should act like "fucking adults". However, despite that you continue to ramble on. It's like you're shaking in anger and frantically typing the first words that come to mind. You hate the US? Fine. Just provide some logic and reasoning behind your claims and accusations, or at least pretend to, unlike the majority of anti-US posters here. The cliche "OMG I HATE AMERICA" and "OMG AMERICA INVADES EVERYONE" posts are becoming quite tiresome.
To quote South Park,
Afghan Child - "It's not just the Taliban that hates America, over a third of the world hates America"
Stan - "But why" Why does a third of the world hate us?"
Afghan Child - "Because you don't realise a third of the world hates you"
The reason that people don't like America is because you intrude too much, don't get me wrong America itself is probably a good place but it's your foreign policy and cultural intrusion that really gets most people's goat. I can't walk down a AUSTRALIAN street in Melbourne without be bombarbed by ads for IPods, McDonalds store, KFC. Most of what was Australian owned companies are now owned by American corporations, heck Kraft the makers of VEGEMITE (Australian Icon) are even owned by Americans now. A large percent of Australia's media is owned by the likes of Rupert Murdoch and our Prime Minister is more a servant to your president than he is to Australian people. The rest of the world doesn't want your culture, we don't want your "democracy" or your "liberty" we are doing quite well for ourselves thank you very much.
And your foreign policy since World War 2 only adds to the frustrations of the rest of the world. Do you think the family of the bombed Iraqi's hate America just because "It's the trend?" No they hate America because there is a reason. Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Haiti, Guatemala, Panama, Chile, Greece, Iraq, Iran, Palestine, Vietnam, Cambodia, Kuwait.
I don't have to go on forever you've made a lot of mistakes in foreign policy that he irritated a LOT of people in the world.
Rupert Murdoch was born australian