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2006-10-25 20:28:20
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6662|North Carolina

Stingray24 wrote:

"Hey kids, welcome to science class.  The one thing I want to impress upon you it that you're the product of an accident.  There was a massive explosion of matter that no one put there and it travelled at millions of miles per hour and eventually slowed down and formed planets.  On one of those tiny planets, you came from a one-celled organism that appeared out of nowhere by chance and by some stroke of evolutionary luck, happened to divide and live.  Somewhere along the way it grew a tail and swam around in the primordial soup for awhile.  Then it decided it needed legs because there was some interesting land that somehow got there.  After that it crawled up on land and by sheer mental energy evolved to a monkey, then the monkey shaved and now we have humans like us!  *brrrrriiiiiing* Oh, that's the bell, now head down the hall to Self-Esteem class.  And remember, no one created you, you're an accident and your life is meaningless."

Now there's some motivation for life.
Exactly, we're all God's children, and if you disagree with that notion and refuse to accept Jesus Christ as your savior, you go to hell.  That's right, kids.  The Earth was made in 7 days, fossils are fabricated lies put into place by Satan, and the Big Bang is a misconception of creationism.

Please inform your Islamic, atheist, Hindu, Jewish, and other non-Christian students that they will face eternal damnation if they don't agree with the Bible, word for word.

How's that for motivation?
2006-10-25 20:30:43
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6662|North Carolina

Stingray24 wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

"Hey kids, welcome to science class.  The one thing I want to impress upon you it that you're the product of an accident.  There was a massive explosion..."
"...called premature ejaculation."
Science teacher hollers out the door, "Yeah, your parents didn't even want you.  They raise you out of pure obligation.  Now go let the psychologist fix your psyche after that one!"
Of course. A non-Christian could never believe in any inherent worth to life.  They could never formulate any purpose to existence without God.
2006-10-25 20:33:04
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6662|North Carolina

Stingray24 wrote:

Where does one find meaning and purpose in life when all we are is compost when it's all over?
It's called living for life, rather than for the afterlife.
2006-10-25 21:11:08
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6702|The Land of Scott Walker

Turquoise wrote:

Exactly, we're all God's children, and if you disagree with that notion and refuse to accept Jesus Christ as your savior, you go to hell.  That's right, kids.  The Earth was made in 7 days, fossils are fabricated lies put into place by Satan, and the Big Bang is a misconception of creationism.

Please inform your Islamic, atheist, Hindu, Jewish, and other non-Christian students that they will face eternal damnation if they don't agree with the Bible, word for word.

How's that for motivation?
Condemnation is not what Jesus taught, though you paint it as such.  He taught us to love and tell others about Him.  That is the motivation I strive for.  Truth is exclusive, it cannot be inclusive of all ideas or it ceases to be truth.
2006-10-25 21:18:23
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6702|The Land of Scott Walker

Turquoise wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

Where does one find meaning and purpose in life when all we are is compost when it's all over?
It's called living for life, rather than for the afterlife.
What does living for life mean to you? 

Living happily in this life while looking forward to the afterlife can be achieved.  It brings a completely different perspective to life.  One of purpose and destiny.  I live life under with the mindset that I was put on this earth for a reason, not just to exist and be as happy as I can make myself.  Happiness is part of it, but not the be all and end all.  There's more . . . making a difference before I leave this earth, hope, and anticipation in the knowledge that this is not all their is.
2006-10-25 21:18:27
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6662|North Carolina

Stingray24 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Exactly, we're all God's children, and if you disagree with that notion and refuse to accept Jesus Christ as your savior, you go to hell.  That's right, kids.  The Earth was made in 7 days, fossils are fabricated lies put into place by Satan, and the Big Bang is a misconception of creationism.

Please inform your Islamic, atheist, Hindu, Jewish, and other non-Christian students that they will face eternal damnation if they don't agree with the Bible, word for word.

How's that for motivation?
Condemnation is not what Jesus taught, though you paint it as such.  He taught us to love and tell others about Him.  That is the motivation I strive for.  Truth is exclusive, it cannot be inclusive of all ideas or it ceases to be truth.
But if "truth" is presented in a text written by humans (and only maybe divinely inspired), then how is one expected to believe in said truth?  It is not an empirical truth, and so it cannot be determined in a manner that reflects our way of thinking.

The ambiguity of faith is what renders it futile.  Your version of truth is no more valid from an outsider's point of view than the truth according to a Muslim, Jew, Hindu, or atheist.  Because of this, people like myself are agnostic.  I find it strange that you would expect anyone who thinks these things through to believe what you have to say.

I do have a serious question though...  What made you decide to believe in Christianity?  You seem like an intellectual person, and so I'd like to know what initiated your faith.  I mean no offense in asking this, because I truly am curious.
2006-10-25 21:20:35
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6662|North Carolina

Stingray24 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

Where does one find meaning and purpose in life when all we are is compost when it's all over?
It's called living for life, rather than for the afterlife.
What does living for life mean to you? 

Living happily in this life while looking forward to the afterlife can be achieved.  It brings a completely different perspective to life.  One of purpose and destiny.  I live life under with the mindset that I was put on this earth for a reason, not just to exist and be as happy as I can make myself.  Happiness is part of it, but not the be all and end all.  There's more . . . making a difference before I leave this earth, hope, and anticipation in the knowledge that this is not all their is.
Plenty of people desire to make a difference for the sake of their posterity -- their children and their children's children.  No faith is required for this desire other than a faith in humanity.

I see where you are coming from though.
2006-10-25 21:35:14
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6702|The Land of Scott Walker

Turquoise wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


It's called living for life, rather than for the afterlife.
What does living for life mean to you? 

Living happily in this life while looking forward to the afterlife can be achieved.  It brings a completely different perspective to life.  One of purpose and destiny.  I live life under with the mindset that I was put on this earth for a reason, not just to exist and be as happy as I can make myself.  Happiness is part of it, but not the be all and end all.  There's more . . . making a difference before I leave this earth, hope, and anticipation in the knowledge that this is not all their is.
Plenty of people desire to make a difference for the sake of their posterity -- their children and their children's children.  No faith is required for this desire other than a faith in humanity.

I see where you are coming from though.
Very true, I'm not saying the desire to make a difference is exclusive to people of faith.  Looking at myself when I'm selfish, though, I don't have much faith in humanity alone.  I understand what you're saying, though.
2006-10-25 21:43:46
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7029|PNW

How the fuck did this thread turn into another science vs. religion match?
2006-10-25 22:15:15
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|6942|United States of America

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

How the fuck did this thread turn into another science vs. religion match?
Right after my post on Page 1...
2006-10-25 22:24:06
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7029|PNW

DesertFox423 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

How the fuck did this thread turn into another science vs. religion match?
Right after my post on Page 1...
The problem with extreme science and extreme religious viewpoints is that there can be no compromise between them. The closed-mindedness of either side precludes productive debate.
2006-10-25 22:40:38
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7023|UK

Stingray24 wrote:

Why are you so angry?  If it's because someone who called themselves a Christian was hateful towards you, I apologize for them.  That's not the way it should be.  God doesn't hate one half of humanity and love the other.  Salvation is free to anyone who will accept it, the consequences of rejecting salvation are not fun.  And anyone who has committed the slightest sin has earned themselves hell, no need to single out any one group, that includes me.  We all fall short of God's perfection.  I know I'm not perfect, that's why I'm glad for Jesus.  Living life under the belief that life is meaningless can't be fulfilling.  Where does one find meaning and purpose in life when all we are is compost when it's all over?
1. God doesnt exist, people use that orgainised religion crap to control your morals.
2. If you cant come up with your own morals, end yourself here and now.
3. Life isnt meaningless to me, i live to enjoy it and cause others joy, however that doesnt make me go "o no i might as well be realy bad seeing as there is no punishment for it after i die".
4. Your life IS meaningless one in like a couple billion people will be remembered in a thousand years. In a hundred thousand years human kind will most likely be extinct.

You last sentence just shows how weak your morals are. You are only being good for the promise of reward, you cant just be good to increase others happiness.

Last edited by Vilham (2006-10-25 22:43:41)

2006-10-25 22:41:48
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6806|Southeastern USA
thought it said pubic education, i want my click back
2006-10-25 22:47:33
INFERNO552
One shot wonder
+62|6697|canada
i dont care what i get in high school anymore so long as i pass, i usually get c's, but im takin 3 PE classes this year so im gettin A's in all those.
2006-10-25 22:48:54
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7029|PNW

Vilham wrote:

2. If you cant come up with your own morals, end yourself here and now.
3. Life isnt meaningless to me, i live to enjoy it and cause others joy, however that doesnt make me go "o no i might as well be realy bad seeing as there is no punishment for it after i die".

---

You are only being good for the promise of reward, you cant just be good to increase others happiness.
'2' and '3' are a bit of a dichotomic combination. On one hand, you suggest that under certain minor variables, people should kill themselves. On the other, you profess to live to 'cause others joy'.

However, you made a good point at the end of your post. Some people are only good for fear of what awaits them in the afterlife, and I think that whatever benefits to 'karma' from what is done under such anticipation would be dulled, if not altogether nullified, in the eyes of an omniscient deity.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-10-25 22:49:10)

2006-10-25 22:53:23
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7023|UK

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Vilham wrote:

2. If you cant come up with your own morals, end yourself here and now.
3. Life isnt meaningless to me, i live to enjoy it and cause others joy, however that doesnt make me go "o no i might as well be realy bad seeing as there is no punishment for it after i die".

---

You are only being good for the promise of reward, you cant just be good to increase others happiness.
'2' and '3' are a bit of a dichotomic combination. On one hand, you suggest that under certain minor variables, people should kill themselves. On the other, you profess to live to 'cause others joy'.

However, you made a good point at the end of your post. Some people are only good for fear of what awaits them in the afterlife, and I think that whatever benefits to 'karma' from what is done under such anticipation would be dulled, if not altogether nullified, in the eyes of an omniscient deity.
K maybe i went a bit too steep with the end yourself comment but comon... if you require others to hand morals to you on a plate you will never be sincere about them and will therefore ignore them when you feel like it eg when you want to do something that will benifit you, ie stealing shit.

Ill also point out that i wouldnt force someone to end their life its their choice but i cant see much point in living if you cant be happy and truly believe in your morals.
2006-10-25 23:04:15
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7029|PNW

Vilham wrote:

1. K maybe i went a bit too steep with the end yourself comment but comon... if you require others to hand morals to you on a plate you will never be sincere about them and will therefore ignore them when you feel like it eg when you want to do something that will benifit you, ie stealing shit.

2. Ill also point out that i wouldnt force someone to end their life its their choice but i cant see much point in living if you cant be happy and truly believe in your morals.
1. Granted, you might have. However, I don't think it's so much being handed morals on a silver platter as it is a system of moral values being taught, rather than leaving each successive generation in the dark. If you accept said teachings, then who's to say that you aren't being sincere when you live by them?

2. That's still a rather depressing outlook. If someone was unhappy, wouldn't a better point to life be to become happy?
2006-10-26 08:29:12
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6812
Fluorıdatıon. Communıst conspıracy. Contamınatıon of our bodıly fluıds, our essence.
2006-10-26 10:55:53
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6702|The Land of Scott Walker

Vilham wrote:

You last sentence just shows how weak your morals are. You are only being good for the promise of reward, you cant just be good to increase others happiness.
I disagree that my last sentence shows weak morals.  You may be assuming I'm working and doing good deeds in an attempt to earn salvation through my own perceived goodness.  If it was the case, yes you could argue I'm just doing good to get a reward.  On the contrary, salvation is free to anyone who believes, not by doing good things.  No one can earn their way into Heaven.  After my initial belief, my faith should result in doing good deeds out of thankfulness.  Which may or may not increase the happiness of others, but they will certainly help others.
2006-10-26 11:05:03
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6702|The Land of Scott Walker

Turquoise wrote:

I do have a serious question though...  What made you decide to believe in Christianity?  You seem like an intellectual person, and so I'd like to know what initiated your faith.  I mean no offense in asking this, because I truly am curious.
No offense taken, it's a pleasure to answer people who have honest questions.  I don't know about intellectual, but I do my best to use the brain I've got. I'd be glad to explain what initiated my faith in more detail.  I have answered this before in similar forums and I've saved it at home.  Since I'm on my work computer until later in the day, I'll have to answer your questions a bit later.

Last edited by Stingray24 (2006-10-26 11:07:00)

2006-10-26 11:39:40
MorbidFetus
Member
+76|6808|Ohio

liquix wrote:

damn those social lives.
Yes, we all know high schoolers lead such interesting lives...
2006-10-26 11:41:45
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6993|Salt Lake City

I got good grades in high school, but that was because I cared about my grades...well, that and my parents told me that if I didn't get good grades there wasn't going to be a drivers license in my wallet when I turned 16.

In any case I did well, and even had enough credit to graduate as a junior, except for English which is a mandatory 4 years.  As such my senior year an AP English class, and a whole bunch of do whatever I want.  I took vocational auto body, vocational mechanics, and welding that year.  I spent almost the entire day in the auto shop. 
2006-10-26 12:32:13
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6947|Tampa Bay Florida

Stingray24 wrote:

Why are you so angry?  If it's because someone who called themselves a Christian was hateful towards you, I apologize for them.  That's not the way it should be.  God doesn't hate one half of humanity and love the other.  Salvation is free to anyone who will accept it, the consequences of rejecting salvation are not fun.  And anyone who has committed the slightest sin has earned themselves hell, no need to single out any one group, that includes me.  We all fall short of God's perfection.  I know I'm not perfect, that's why I'm glad for Jesus.  Living life under the belief that life is meaningless can't be fulfilling.  Where does one find meaning and purpose in life when all we are is compost when it's all over?
It's this "find god and you'll be happy" kind of world which makes me pissed.  I and millions of other people around the world don't NEED a religion to find happiness, we find it on our own.  I'm not Christian, or Muslim, or Buddhist, I'm a humanist.. if you cannot accept the fact that you are a simple organism, with no other philosophical purpose than to exist and have kids, then you really are living in a dream world.  I find religion through the Earth itself.. kind of like Native Americans. 

One day, our world will end abrubtly, and somehow, the universe will go on.  If you somehow don't find purpose in being compost when it's all over, what the hell do you think we exist for? 

I'll tell you what I believe.. and I can sum it up in one paragraph.  If there was a god, any god, and a heaven, it would not admit only Christians, or only Muslims.  It would accept every living being, and forgive even the most sinful.  That's why I get pissed.  It's because people go around believing that they have to have love in Jesus or Allah to make their life meaningful.  Why exist if our only purpose is to pray to god?  If it was our purpose, we would have it in our instincts. 

Now, I'm not personally hating on you, stingray, but religion has been a main source of violence and disagreement in the world throughout human history.  It's the fundamenalist Christians and Muslims who are imposing their beliefs on the common American.  Religion makes many people happy, and thats perfectly fine, however, the EXACT moment it goes as far as to say "We know what's what, and those Muslims over there do not" THEN it goes too far.  That in itself is a sin.

Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression.

Last edited by Spearhead (2006-10-26 12:33:09)

2006-10-27 12:34:20
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6750|Connecticut

Miller wrote:

Well, this is mildy confusing to me.  But, ever since I started going to a public High School this year, it seems nearly everyone has a D average.  I think it's sad to see this as I am an all A student with a 4.0 right now.  I even have been going to a class just to watch what goes on.  In Algebra I have noticed, texting, sleeping, and talking is a favorite of students, and well, that goes for all classes.  In a program called AVID, your grades decide how much tutoring you get after school... I have 0 hours due for this week, though most students have on average about 2 hours due.  And some even have 7 hours due.  The way they tutor you is like this: A's and B's owe no time, C's owe thirty minutes, D's and F's an hour.  I think it is kind of sad to see all this crap in the public system... as my private school, most everyone was above 3.0, but it's just pathetic now.  There is one kid constantly goofing around, and when he says something trying to be funny or look smart, I will just blatantly say, "Your grades are showing otherwise." He'll get pissed and I will laugh.  The only reason he has an A in his science class is because, he cheats off of my test.  Though I have recently moved during two tests.  My grades were 96% and 94% on those, his were 73% and 77%.  Big difference.  Does anyone have any opinions on why we have such idiots in school now?
They arent idiots. I was horrible in high school but had a 3.7 gpa in college. The reason they score low on tests/quizes is because they are preoccupied with trying to get laid. See that is what high school is really about. HS football, underage drinking and premarital sex. If you can balance all of those and still graduate then you are ready for college. In which case it tuns into College football, underage drinking and premarital sex. ..........wait a minute......OMG........When do we learn?????? Oh yeah its called the real world. School teaches us things and we will never use 85 percent of it. Just get through it.
Malloy must go
2006-10-27 17:03:51
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6662|North Carolina

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

2. That's still a rather depressing outlook. If someone was unhappy, wouldn't a better point to life be to become happy?
In the end, this is kind of what it boils down to.  Those who can deal with life on its own terms don't need religion.  Those who can't, do.

 

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