BF2S Forums Spawn Camping , Spawners & Hunters Fact Or Retardism ?

Spawn camping can be considered just that when they are sitting at the spawn for no strategical or team benefit.

For example, quite often, the USMC will not capture the hotel flag at all. They will sit on it forever killing, but never capturing. The fast kills more than outweigh the ticket countdown. Sometimes, to make the situation worse, they will neutral or capture square so as to give no options but to spawn hotel. This is an artificial situation for the sole purpose of point farming that goes against the intent of the map design, which is meant to be an eventual progress into the city as far as the USMC are talented enough to take it.

Holding a spawn to facilitate the capture of a flag is a legitimate tactic. Sitting on a spawn for the sole purpose of increasing your score is not.

If MEC spawns all AT guys with DAOs, and takes out all 3 armors, and then moves as a group to the US spawn, at the same time 2 squad leaders get into a humvee and drive to the US base, have people spawn AT, take out the armor again, and then have everyone on the team position 2 (or more, depending on the players) at a time at EACH spawn point (all the places people have a % chance to respawn) and lock down the US team completely, that's spawncamping. 

If US takes all the MEC flags except Hotel, and then positions 3-5 people at each of the 4 hotel spawnpoints, not trying to take the ONLY flag MEC has, that's spawncamping.  Clear?

Sud:  No one is forcing the MEC players to continue to spawn at Hotel.  There are a number of other bases on Karkand besides Hotel and Square.
RedFiercare:  The first situation is not spawncamping.  What else is the MEC supposed to do?  Back off and allow the US to regroup?  Since they can't capture the base, they are doing the only thing left to insure the win.  The second case, I would have to say, would be spawncamping or point farming.  They should just cap the flag and be done with it.

atlvolunteer wrote:

Sud:  No one is forcing the MEC players to continue to spawn at Hotel.  There are a number of other bases on Karkand besides Hotel and Square.
RedFiercare:  The first situation is not spawncamping.  What else is the MEC supposed to do?  Back off and allow the US to regroup?  Since they can't capture the base, they are doing the only thing left to insure the win.  The second case, I would have to say, would be spawncamping or point farming.  They should just cap the flag and be done with it.

I agree completely, sure US gets pissed off and annoyed but chances are SOMEONE will have to spawn in a decent place and start fighting back,better yet be a sniper and pick off at the AT's standing around or capture something, while everyone is staying at the main base

this is WAR there are no rules to war.

Yes, there are. It's called the Geneva Convetion.

Where in the rules of bf2 does it state that I have to take that flag first??

Nowhere at all, that's actually a very good tactic. The idea I was trying to get across is that the flags are completely ignored in favor of the proper playing of the game. If hotel and square are the only spawn points left, that's fine, but you should be actually trying to CAPTURE the final two (or making a cerifiable effort to actually do so). I see teams literally not even go into the flag area (except after an enemy) in favor to just sit on the spawns. They don't want the game to be won, they want points. In my eyes, that's against the intent of the game.

As for your opening comment spawning an uncapable (i think thats what you where talking about) reduces the opposing teams tickets. as long at there is no other flag to cap i see it as a viable tactic.

This is correct. In this case, the only way you can win the game is to reduce the enemy tickets to 0, so spawn camping them is your only option once you have all flags. In my opinion, uncapturable bases SHOULD NOT EXIST for this very reason. If you look at Karkand, one of the major inbalances with it is that the USMC can capture factory and essentially have two bases spawning vehicles, MEC can not do the same thing, gas station always remains USMC control. This is nowhere in the realm of balanced map design, completely unfair.

Another one of these posts.  I see what you are saying VIKING-LOVER1, and I half agree. 

This topic covers way too much to be simplified to yes and no.  There are times it is genuine spawn camping, and there are times its just idiots whining.  The difference is the intent of the action.

On capturable (CAP) flags.  I say its a reward for good tactics to camp where people spawn, generally speaking its a tactical location to go prone anyway, **so long as at least one person is trying to get the flag**, otherwise you really aren't contributing to your army's goal (which is the main purpose of these theoretical battles) instead you are furthering your own purposes (don't be so greedy).

If one person is capping the flag you are "camping" you are being tactical by providing cover fire.  If you aren't covering anybody and just lone wolfing without capturing a flag, you are spawn camping.

Another situation on Karkand.  The USMC has taken all but one flag very rapidly, 200 MEC tickets left.  USMC now controls all the armor, MEC commander has no more artillery or UAV or anything.  USMC has surrounded the MEC with everything at their only flag.  Is there a chance that MEC could fight their way out?  Sure, but where do they go from there.  The odds are better that USMC will trounce them.

If the USMC now having the clear upper hand rushes them and caps their flag killing MEC where they spawn to facilitate their capture of the last objective, then it isn't "spawn camping".  If the USMC continues the one sided fight of just railing the MEC from the safety of their armor until the last ticket ticks away without any intent of capping the flag its "spawn camping".  The general difference is one finishes the fight, one prolongs the fight to give the winning team easier points than actual fighting.  Now here is where people differ, some say its part of the game you shouldn't suck so bad to get into that situation (not very sportsman like, but who needs friends when you get points), others wouldn't back off and let them out, they would cap the flag and move on to the next round.

A different situation altogether arises with both teams having uncappable (NOCAP) flags.  I don't think it’s very sportsmanlike to enter these bases as anything other than spec ops with the tactical intent of destroying the other teams command assets.  Otherwise it’s just like MEC on Karkand, you are leaving your objective, take and hold the location, to chase "shadows" (we all know where the other team is coming from and where they spawn). 

I think its fair game, if you are within reasonable distance of your objectives (flags) that if you can see it you should shoot at it on Karkand as MEC you don't need to take the tank much outside city limits to be able to shoot most of what you want to, that isn't camping when you shoot what you see from within city limits.  It's when you leave the city with the tank to go shoot the other team at their NOCAP flag before their armor respawns that is campish, you know where they are without guarantee they are there.

Another issue altogether is vehicle theft (how this relates comes in later).  Some say it's fair to steal unguarded vehicles.  I think that is true, if the vehicles are on CAP flags.  If the vehicles are on NOCAP flags, like the USMC vehicles on Karkand (my sincerest apologies for exhausting this example, but it’s the only map I know). 

The USMC armor is there, unoccupied in the USMC base.  Realistically (game realism depends largely on how participating players play) would a USMC tank drive to reasonably close to battling range at an enemy city and then hop out at a gas station to take a piss?  I think not by all rights unoccupied USMC tanks on Karkand shouldn't even be there, if the tanks were they would already have USMC in them. 

This is another player dependent issue.  Most people prefer the unsportsmanlike option, its there in the game so I can take it (fair, but ruins the realism aspect).  I wish dice would have made the game so people would spawn in the armor, but they didn't, so it can be stolen, but I don't believe it should be stolen (sportsmanship blah blah blah)  I believe it should be blown up by the spec ops player there only for the purpose to blow up the UAV and such, that happened to encounter an enemy on the way.  Everybody knows where those vehicles are, which realistically they shouldn't, but they steal them when they can (realistically doesn't make sense how it happened) and then go off on a spawn killing rampage (they aren't completing any objectives, just abusing the poor game setup).

But all that crap I mentioned above depends largely on how you want to play the game.  Just realize if you do some of the aforementioned things, people will complain because they don't agree with your gameplay philosophy, and most of us can't find low latency servers where there isn't at least one person doing something we largely disagree with.  Like using the m203 as the only weapon on an assault rifle (It's an assault rifle with a grenade launcher attachment, not a grenade launcher inconvenienced by having an assault rifle placed above it, or a grenade launcher with an assault rifle grip)  but that is a complaint for another subject.

Last edited by h4r13quin (2005-12-15 22:53:04)

top two paragraphs should be in quotes, sorry

It's the matter of the spawn system,not the spawn camper.
if you don't spawn in front of enemy,there is no spawn camper,but in bf2?yes,you always spawn in front of enemy.

h4r13quin, you make good points and i agree that the NOCAP flags are kind of rediculus, i would prefer to see them gone, since i would much rather cap the flag and win, than sit at a nocap and score kills (unless i am working on a ribbon lol) I much prefer being in a good squad as to tank/jet/helo whoreing. But alas sometimes your team needs the help *sigh*, I have been on maps where we are getting owned by jets/ helos and our attack helo and both jets are just sitting there!! but to get back on track, I am also glad this thread hasn't taken the childish namecalling direction yet. It is a good civilized discussion

Ah, that clarifies it for me.  Thanks