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2006-10-19 19:26:40
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6852|USA

jonsimon wrote:

lowing wrote:

jonsimon wrote:


Ikarti said it best, by the people FOR the people.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. "


Please tell me how you interpret this from the Gettysburg Address as meaning a free ride while the rest of us pay??

You have a speach, I have the Constitution...I win
Who said free ride? Barely surviving on government provided food while others make incredible profits off of government subsidies is not a free ride. There is no on off switch for success. We can preserve the right of everyone to succeed while preserving the right of everyone to feed themselves. Living on minimum wage is not the same as rolling on twenties.

You may have an outdated document, but I have the minds of all our founding fathers and the greats Thomas Payne and Adam Smith. That's the royal flush of revolutionaries.

If barely living on government provided food is a free ride, then yes, some should have a free ride while others work for success.
I support govt. funded social programs, free college for those that need it, low interest  college loans, child care credits, etc....for ANYONE who is trying ot help themselves.

I do not support taking care of an able bodied 30 year old who makes "minimum wage" for no other reason than, his lack of drive, ambition, or attitude. This is something I have said 10,000 times and I just can't get you liberals to admit that it is a reasonable request to ask of any able bodied person.

Ummmmmmm, I dunno what to say...........you maintain our Constitution is "outdated" and therfore, I can only assume, irrelevent. Yet you praise our founding fathers all of who actually signed it.

If you are going ot ride the US gravy train, do you not agree that you better have a good reason why you are on board???
2006-10-19 19:35:29
jonsimon
Member
+224|6696

lowing wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

lowing wrote:


That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. "


Please tell me how you interpret this from the Gettysburg Address as meaning a free ride while the rest of us pay??

You have a speach, I have the Constitution...I win
Who said free ride? Barely surviving on government provided food while others make incredible profits off of government subsidies is not a free ride. There is no on off switch for success. We can preserve the right of everyone to succeed while preserving the right of everyone to feed themselves. Living on minimum wage is not the same as rolling on twenties.

You may have an outdated document, but I have the minds of all our founding fathers and the greats Thomas Payne and Adam Smith. That's the royal flush of revolutionaries.

If barely living on government provided food is a free ride, then yes, some should have a free ride while others work for success.
I support govt. funded social programs, free college for those that need it, low interest  college loans, child care credits, etc....for ANYONE who is trying ot help themselves.

I do not support taking care of an able bodied 30 year old who makes "minimum wage" for no other reason than, his lack of drive, ambition, or attitude. This is something I have said 10,000 times and I just can't get you liberals to admit that it is a reasonable request to ask of any able bodied person.

Ummmmmmm, I dunno what to say...........you maintain our Constitution is "outdated" and therfore, I can only assume, irrelevent. Yet you praise our founding fathers all of who actually signed it.

If you are going ot ride the US gravy train, do you not agree that you better have a good reason why you are on board???
You might think different if you had ever suffered in your life. Sorry, but minimum wage isn't a choice, no one choses to be the bottom of the food chain. What about the dirt poor, would you support government run soup kitchens? Or is that too commie socialist liberal evil terrorist loving for you?
2006-10-19 19:45:10
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6852|USA

jonsimon wrote:

lowing wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

Who said free ride? Barely surviving on government provided food while others make incredible profits off of government subsidies is not a free ride. There is no on off switch for success. We can preserve the right of everyone to succeed while preserving the right of everyone to feed themselves. Living on minimum wage is not the same as rolling on twenties.

You may have an outdated document, but I have the minds of all our founding fathers and the greats Thomas Payne and Adam Smith. That's the royal flush of revolutionaries.

If barely living on government provided food is a free ride, then yes, some should have a free ride while others work for success.
I support govt. funded social programs, free college for those that need it, low interest  college loans, child care credits, etc....for ANYONE who is trying ot help themselves.

I do not support taking care of an able bodied 30 year old who makes "minimum wage" for no other reason than, his lack of drive, ambition, or attitude. This is something I have said 10,000 times and I just can't get you liberals to admit that it is a reasonable request to ask of any able bodied person.

Ummmmmmm, I dunno what to say...........you maintain our Constitution is "outdated" and therefore, I can only assume, irrelevant. Yet you praise our founding fathers all of who actually signed it.

If you are going to ride the US gravy train, do you not agree that you better have a good reason why you are on board???
You might think different if you had ever suffered in your life. Sorry, but minimum wage isn't a choice, no one choses to be the bottom of the food chain. What about the dirt poor, would you support government run soup kitchens? Or is that too commie socialist liberal evil terrorist loving for you?
First off, you can respond to my post


Second, I have been "down on my luck". I am now just recovering from a lay-off. The thing that saved me, eventually, is that I have marketable skills. I also worked for minimum wage, when I was 16 and working at a fast food joint during HS. I also made money, pushing a lawn mower around the neighborhood and washing cars during the summers. Then I grew the fuck up.

If you don't get some sort of education, either scholastically or in a trade, to market yourself, you have IN FACT, chose to be poor.

I support any programs that supports people trying to help themselves.

Last edited by lowing (2006-10-19 19:52:14)

2006-10-19 19:59:39
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6852|USA
Tell ya what, I will challenge you to give me 1 good reason why a 40 year old able bodied man who is mentally competant should be stuck making minium wage for his whole life due to circumstance beyond his control and where personal responsibility or choice DOESN'T come into play. Given the existing social programs already in place.

You do that and I will conceed the whole topic to you now and forever..

But please keep it real, I don't need to be bombarded with a bunch of bullshit " what if the moon exploded" scenarios
2006-10-19 20:15:16
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6897|NJ

lowing wrote:

Tell ya what, I will challenge you to give me 1 good reason why a 40 year old able bodied man who is mentally competant should be stuck making minium wage for his whole life due to circumstance beyond his control and where personal responsibility or choice DOESN'T come into play. Given the existing social programs already in place.

You do that and I will conceed the whole topic to you now and forever..

But please keep it real, I don't need to be bombarded with a bunch of bullshit " what if the moon exploded" scenarios
Well one of the main problems our econimy is having right now is it's a job market trend area, where good paying computer jobs have been shipped over seas to people who do it half the price as they use to. The tech industry from what I can see moved to the finance market as in majority of the people I run across in the mortgage industry at one time or an other where in the IT field. Now I'm not talking about people who skate the system there whole life, I'm talking about people who have studied to get a marketable skill but there just isn't the demand for as many people as before.  I would love to get a Laborer job right now making 15 dollars an hour but that is almost impossible to do given my background. So I have to suck it up and do sales...   

Does that count?
2006-10-19 20:21:54
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6852|USA

cpt.fass1 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Tell ya what, I will challenge you to give me 1 good reason why a 40 year old able bodied man who is mentally competant should be stuck making minium wage for his whole life due to circumstance beyond his control and where personal responsibility or choice DOESN'T come into play. Given the existing social programs already in place.

You do that and I will conceed the whole topic to you now and forever..

But please keep it real, I don't need to be bombarded with a bunch of bullshit " what if the moon exploded" scenarios
Well one of the main problems our econimy is having right now is it's a job market trend area, where good paying computer jobs have been shipped over seas to people who do it half the price as they use to. The tech industry from what I can see moved to the finance market as in majority of the people I run across in the mortgage industry at one time or an other where in the IT field. Now I'm not talking about people who skate the system there whole life, I'm talking about people who have studied to get a marketable skill but there just isn't the demand for as many people as before.  I would love to get a Laborer job right now making 15 dollars an hour but that is almost impossible to do given my background. So I have to suck it up and do sales...   

Does that count?
No it doesn't. and here is why:

You are in a field on the down swing, I give you that, however, you were marketable enough to land a job in sales. Is it your dream job, maybe not, are you working, YES. Have you been making minimum wage your whole life, nope, have you ever made morethan minimum wage, probably so, have you been living off of, or expect to live off of, the rest of us as a life style rather than a helping hand, I doubt it. Your attitude in life is not one of leeching off of others for support.
2006-10-19 20:30:33
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6897|NJ
Now I'm not talking about people who skate the system there whole life, I'm talking about people who have studied to get a marketable skill but there just isn't the demand for as many people as before.

I did put that in there..

The only problem is I'm not making mimimum wage right now I don't make money and if I don't close things I don't get paid.. Also I'm swiming in debt(which is my fault and I don't put the blame on anyone else) which is making me seriously think about filing a chapter 7.. Which actually does more harm on the econimy then some welfare people... I'm doing ok but I'm in hard times right now which is really hurting my purchaseing power....
2006-10-19 20:37:12
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6852|USA

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Now I'm not talking about people who skate the system there whole life, I'm talking about people who have studied to get a marketable skill but there just isn't the demand for as many people as before.

I did put that in there..

The only problem is I'm not making mimimum wage right now I don't make money and if I don't close things I don't get paid.. Also I'm swiming in debt(which is my fault and I don't put the blame on anyone else) which is making me seriously think about filing a chapter 7.. Which actually does more harm on the econimy then some welfare people... I'm doing ok but I'm in hard times right now which is really hurting my purchaseing power....
Yes I Know you put that in your post. YOu are trying to help yourself, I have no problem with you taking advantage of whatever programs might be available to you for assistance.

Your situation, is simply not described in what I posted for my challenge. I contend I do not want to support people that don't help themselves. You are clearly doing that.

I went through the same thing.
2006-10-20 09:56:44
Masques
Black Panzer Party
+184|6923|Eastern PA
Another thought (to get this train back on the rails), technically since congress didn't actually declare war (and this would be the case with Jane Fonda and John Walker Lindh as well) there are no grounds for treason. This is why, since WWII at least, espionage has been such a favored charge as the situations and methods for charging a citizen with treason are extraordinarily difficult and specific.
2006-10-20 10:48:42
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6694|Connecticut

lowing wrote:

Tell ya what, I will challenge you to give me 1 good reason why a 40 year old able bodied man who is mentally competant should be stuck making minium wage for his whole life due to circumstance beyond his control and where personal responsibility or choice DOESN'T come into play. Given the existing social programs already in place.

You do that and I will conceed the whole topic to you now and forever..

But please keep it real, I don't need to be bombarded with a bunch of bullshit " what if the moon exploded" scenarios
Reason #1- Lazy
Reason #2- See # 1
People want the quick buck (who doesnt?) but are unwilling to make sacrifice for it. I remember getting out of the Marines and having a job in two days ( I spent the first day drunk) cutting metal at a fabrication shop. Oh yeah, I had a bachelors degree in Criminal Justice but I did it because I needed work. Time has passed and now I am using my degree as an asset protection executive. As long as I have the strength to move my hands I will never put them out. But the days of guys like us mowing lawns and shoveling driveways when we have to just to make ends meet are long gone. The same ghetto piles of shit I have to hear about, crying the system has screwed them are the ones who just cant live without multiple cell phones and 22" rims. Maybe they could move faster and get a job if all their jewelry wasnt weighing them down.
Malloy must go
2006-10-20 10:57:30
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6850

lowing wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

lowing wrote:


Went to their website, they look look like gang bangers, IS that not the image they wish to portrait?? I also consider M&M a gang banger.

I mentioned gang banger..................YOU mentioned blacks and gang bangers............please remember that.
Okay, so any person who dresses "ghetto" style clothing you consider gang bangers?  Ever considered that the type of clothing is largely more popular in the african american demographic than in others?  That is not racism, it's social awareness......
So ya mean,  "ghetto" ISN'T the look of a gang banger???!!

And if it is, and that is how that group dresses and acts, what the hell ya bitchin' about???
Yo, word G!
2006-10-20 13:44:38
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6852|USA
LOL, Imagine my surprise when I get home from work and Spearhead and Jonisimon will not respond to my question/challenge..... I see that they are posting elsewhere. I am sure it is because I am a waste of their time or something and not that they can't answer it.
2006-10-20 15:02:39
jonsimon
Member
+224|6696

lowing wrote:

LOL, Imagine my surprise when I get home from work and Spearhead and Jonisimon will not respond to my question/challenge..... I see that they are posting elsewhere. I am sure it is because I am a waste of their time or something and not that they can't answer it.
Sorry, I went to sleep last night, and I've neglected the forums til now, what challenge would that be?

Edit: Ah, I found it.

One reason?

Mexicans. There. Now choose, you can either tell me I'm right, or tell me the Right wing is fawning over illegal immigrants for nothing. Win-win for me.

Last edited by jonsimon (2006-10-20 15:05:33)

2006-10-20 15:04:49
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6852|USA

jonsimon wrote:

lowing wrote:

LOL, Imagine my surprise when I get home from work and Spearhead and Jonisimon will not respond to my question/challenge..... I see that they are posting elsewhere. I am sure it is because I am a waste of their time or something and not that they can't answer it.
Sorry, I went to sleep last night, and I've neglected the forums til now, what challenge would that be?
Ahhh welcome back, read up on this page you will see it.
2006-10-20 15:31:49
jonsimon
Member
+224|6696

jonsimon wrote:

lowing wrote:

LOL, Imagine my surprise when I get home from work and Spearhead and Jonisimon will not respond to my question/challenge..... I see that they are posting elsewhere. I am sure it is because I am a waste of their time or something and not that they can't answer it.
Sorry, I went to sleep last night, and I've neglected the forums til now, what challenge would that be?

Edit: Ah, I found it.

One reason?

Mexicans. There. Now choose, you can either tell me I'm right, or tell me the Right wing is fawning over illegal immigrants for nothing. Win-win for me.
Probably missed it cuz it was in an edit, sorry bout that.
2006-10-20 15:34:21
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6852|USA

jonsimon wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

lowing wrote:

LOL, Imagine my surprise when I get home from work and Spearhead and Jonisimon will not respond to my question/challenge..... I see that they are posting elsewhere. I am sure it is because I am a waste of their time or something and not that they can't answer it.
Sorry, I went to sleep last night, and I've neglected the forums til now, what challenge would that be?

Edit: Ah, I found it.

One reason?

Mexicans. There. Now choose, you can either tell me I'm right, or tell me the Right wing is fawning over illegal immigrants for nothing. Win-win for me.
Probably missed it cuz it was in an edit, sorry bout that.
What the hell does Mexicans have to do with getting an education and making yourself marketable in America? I am guessing you can't really fathom a real reason for this.

Is that really the best you can do??

Last edited by lowing (2006-10-20 15:37:24)

2006-10-20 15:39:34
Ikarti
Banned - for ever.
+231|6910|Wilmington, DE, US
Actually Lowing, I'm mystified by that response. Let me give you one answer without clarification and see if it's better. String theory. There. Now repent being a Republican or whatever.
2006-10-20 15:47:06
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6852|USA

Ikarti wrote:

Actually Lowing, I'm mystified by that response. Let me give you one answer without clarification and see if it's better. String theory. There. Now repent being a Republican or whatever.
Pretty simple question, I thought, guess not.....I will give you all credit for 1 thing though.....Your double talk and tap dancing is second to none....Worthy of a political ambitions
2006-10-20 15:51:19
Ikarti
Banned - for ever.
+231|6910|Wilmington, DE, US

lowing wrote:

Ikarti wrote:

Actually Lowing, I'm mystified by that response. Let me give you one answer without clarification and see if it's better. String theory. There. Now repent being a Republican or whatever.
Pretty simple question, I thought, guess not.....I will give you all credit for 1 thing though.....Your double talk and tap dancing is second to none....Worthy of a political ambitions
I think you missed my point.

lowing wrote:

Tell ya what, I will challenge you to give me 1 good reason why a 40 year old able bodied man who is mentally competant should be stuck making minium wage for his whole life due to circumstance beyond his control and where personal responsibility or choice DOESN'T come into play. Given the existing social programs already in place.
He answered Mexicans and didn't explain why. I don't see how Mexicans answers the challenge either. So, as a joke I wrote that string theory would explain why and I didn't have to explain it because it would explain itself. Nevermind I guess. America sucks america sucks america sucks.
2006-10-20 15:53:59
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6852|USA

Ikarti wrote:

lowing wrote:

Ikarti wrote:

Actually Lowing, I'm mystified by that response. Let me give you one answer without clarification and see if it's better. String theory. There. Now repent being a Republican or whatever.
Pretty simple question, I thought, guess not.....I will give you all credit for 1 thing though.....Your double talk and tap dancing is second to none....Worthy of a political ambitions
I think you missed my point.

lowing wrote:

Tell ya what, I will challenge you to give me 1 good reason why a 40 year old able bodied man who is mentally competant should be stuck making minium wage for his whole life due to circumstance beyond his control and where personal responsibility or choice DOESN'T come into play. Given the existing social programs already in place.
He answered Mexicans and didn't explain why. I don't see how Mexicans answers the challenge either. So, as a joke I wrote that string theory would explain why and I didn't have to explain it because it would explain itself. Nevermind I guess. America sucks america sucks america sucks.
Oh sorry, it is hard to read inflection or sarcasm von here sometimes
2006-10-20 20:30:13
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6852|USA

lowing wrote:

Tell ya what, I will challenge you to give me 1 good reason why a 40 year old able bodied man who is mentally competant should be stuck making minium wage for his whole life due to circumstance beyond his control and where personal responsibility or choice DOESN'T come into play. Given the existing social programs already in place.

You do that and I will conceed the whole topic to you now and forever..

But please keep it real, I don't need to be bombarded with a bunch of bullshit " what if the moon exploded" scenarios
Oh well, I guess no takers, figures
2006-10-20 20:32:26
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6762
Okay:

His family was so strapped for cash that he had to work as soon as he was old enough.  Unable to get an education, he is uneligible for most careers.
2006-10-20 21:00:30
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6852|USA

Bubbalo wrote:

Okay:

His family was so strapped for cash that he had to work as soon as he was old enough.  Unable to get an education, he is uneligible for most careers.
night school?, on-line courses?..........remember,I am not talking about getting an damn PHD. With a HS diploma you can earn a very realistic and middle to upper class living. Way way too many people have proven that the scenario you discribe is not impossible to overcome if you wanted to.

Hell even starting at the bottom somewhere, by the time you are 30 or 40 you would have worked your way up to a comfortable living if not only by seniority or default.

Last edited by lowing (2006-10-20 21:07:04)

2006-10-20 21:01:44
Phantom2828
Member
+51|6728|Land of the free
lowing has a point
2006-10-20 21:06:38
rawls
Banned
+11|7016|California, USA

cpt.fass1 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Tell ya what, I will challenge you to give me 1 good reason why a 40 year old able bodied man who is mentally competant should be stuck making minium wage for his whole life due to circumstance beyond his control and where personal responsibility or choice DOESN'T come into play. Given the existing social programs already in place.

You do that and I will conceed the whole topic to you now and forever..

But please keep it real, I don't need to be bombarded with a bunch of bullshit " what if the moon exploded" scenarios
Well one of the main problems our econimy is having right now is it's a job market trend area, where good paying computer jobs have been shipped over seas to people who do it half the price as they use to. The tech industry from what I can see moved to the finance market as in majority of the people I run across in the mortgage industry at one time or an other where in the IT field. Now I'm not talking about people who skate the system there whole life, I'm talking about people who have studied to get a marketable skill but there just isn't the demand for as many people as before.  I would love to get a Laborer job right now making 15 dollars an hour but that is almost impossible to do given my background. So I have to suck it up and do sales...   

Does that count?
Wrong. I'll answer the question. Its because he/we live in a capitalistic society. Which means the object of the game is to make money.The 40 year old stuck on minimum wage failed to learn game and it sure as hell ain't the Mexicans fault. We in America have all the resources available in order to achieve financial Independence. No excuses.

Last edited by rawls (2006-10-20 21:07:42)

 

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