Ikarti
Banned - for ever.
+231|6698|Wilmington, DE, US
Well, this is really to all the posters here who have served in the military of late. I realize I've probably angered a number of you with my lack of support and outright hatred of the military. I'm done hating. It was an interesting forum gimmick and got a lot of interesting responses and was what I really felt. I was outraged at the behavior of a few soldiers that I had either encountered personally or heard about in the news. For all the support the country gives the troops, who are supposed to be the good guys, and then see a number of them involved in incidents like Haditha and the rape case, it's a betrayal.

I know I was raised to respect soldiers, I couldn't respect that. I also couldn't take the misperception of soldiers I'd met that my freedom was at stake in Iraq, or that we have to support the president no matter what, or hearing a general disregard for the Iraqis coupled with racial epithets, or that even though I have the freedom to say what I want I shouldn't be allowed to say certain things. The freedom thing really bugged me though, because I've had a personal experience in my life where I have had to fight for my freedom and rights, and I only had me to count on. There were no soldiers in sight.

In my own foolishness, I decided it would be easier to generalize. To those of who have served and post here, I extend my apology to most of you. Actually, I think there's only one person who I won't apologize to, and it isn't Usmarine2005. If they read this they can figure it out.

I do want to say though that I don't support the war and I honestly don't see the need to support the troops. I may change my mind on that, but I still can't. Though I will say, those of you who signed up because they wanted to serve the county, not because of money, not because of "Saddam did 9/11 and we're getting revenge," not because it's a chance to kill some Arabs, you have my support. It's an admirable thing to do, really.

This was sparked by the war stories thread. I was really impressed with how some of you refused to discuss it. I don't know how you feel about it, if you're comfortable with it or not, or if you're willing to talk about it elsewhere, but prudence was shown by not discussing it on a forum for a war video game populated with many teenagers that think war's a game and guns are toys.

The last thing I do want to stipulate that those of you who think torture is ok, or that an Arab life is worth any less than an American life, disregard this apology. This time though I will take issue with you as an individual, not a soldier.

I can understand if you don't accept this, I was way over the top on a lot of what I said. The hatred does nothing though, solves nothing. Take from this what you will. Thanks for reading.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6590|132 and Bush

Soldiers don't make the policy. They do alot more than just fight wars as well.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6544
Ikarti - lengthy post - serious post - does not compute....

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-10-11 01:04:05)

arabeater
Do you have any idea how fooking busy I am?
+49|6670|Colorado Springs, CO
Ikarti, I am a US serviceman and I respect what you wrote and I for one accept your apology. I joined after 9/11 to defend my country. I served in Afghanistan in 2002. I completely support that invasion. The Taliban harbored Osama Bin Laden and his thugs. However I do not support the war in Iraq. Yes, I believe Saddam should've been ousted in Iraq. But not at the cost of thousands of US lives. I've served 3 tours in Iraq and I am glad I went each time. Ive met alot of good people. I did learn one thing in all the time I have been deployed. When I was engaged in a combat situation at the begining of the Iraqi war back in March 2003, I wasnt fighting for my country, I wasnt fighting for the American way of life, I wasnt fighting for my president, I was fighting for my life and the lives of my fellow servicemen. Thats what soldiers do. Fight for each other. I dont have any hatred towards Arabs or any whole race for that matter. The only people that I hate are the ones that wish to do harm to me or fellow soldiers.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6761|PNW

OP: Yes, but will you send them pie?
Tetrino
International OMGWTFBBQ
+200|6720|Uhh... erm...
I salute you, Ikarti. People who are willing to admit their faults and mistakes truly deserve a place in Debate and Serious Talk.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6550

Kmarion wrote:

They do alot more than just fight wars as well.
Such as?
Rosse_modest
Member
+76|6765|Antwerp, Flanders

Bubbalo wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

They do alot more than just fight wars as well.
Such as?
They also train to fight wars.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6550
Oooooh, Kmarion got bitchslapped by Rosse!
NMZ.UncleMoo™
Member
+2|6557
disaster cleanup, border security, fund raising for good causes like cancer research and such (ever heard of the marine corps marathon? ) .  you really should consider your comment before making it.  Saves the rest of us time from reading useless posts, and answering them....

Moo....
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6590|132 and Bush

Bubbalo wrote:

Oooooh, Kmarion got bitchslapped by Rosse!
Check the post above this little boy.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|6754|Dallas

Bubbalo wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

They do alot more than just fight wars as well.
Such as?
Disaster relief.
Community service.
Charity work.
Educational outings (such as a science fair held in the cargo bay of a C-5 that was flown to a school in Oklahoma).
Augmentee security (like at the airport, to relieve the police force)


Those are just 6 off the top of my head, that I've done personally.  I'm sure there is much more that I just am not thinking of at the moment.
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6508|Πάϊ

Cougar wrote:

Disaster relief.
Community service.
Charity work.
Educational outings (such as a science fair held in the cargo bay of a C-5 that was flown to a school in Oklahoma).
Augmentee security (like at the airport, to relieve the police force)


Those are just 6 off the top of my head, that I've done personally.  I'm sure there is much more that I just am not thinking of at the moment.
Ok I wasn't gonna say anything in this thread but you got me... I mean ffs is that all you guys could come up with? There must be more that that I'm sure!

Disaster relief? What the hell do you need M16s for? Next time join the Fire Department

Charity work? Why not join a charity organization that doesn't dress in camo...

Educational outings? oh alright, I see where heavily armed men are needed you got me

Augmentee security: join the cops - again no need for sand camo. (Not that the police is any different nowdays, with their kind of armory they could invade Iraq as well)

So, personal opinion: if you're in it for the money then good for you. No excuses needed. If you're doing it to serve your country then I'm afraid you picked the wrong path. Next time go with something else. Because the army is certainly NOT about all these things you guys mentioned above.

Last edited by oug (2006-10-11 05:01:41)

ƒ³
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6746|Argentina
I have great respect for people serving for their country.  I think there are some soldiers and marines that deserve to be respected in this forum.  There are a few that are a disgrace for their comments.  And also for their "I served for my country, you don't know a shit, gimmie a medal" attitude.  Those don't deserve any respect.  But most of them are good people, and like Arabeater, they have brains to tell the difference between a war and a business.  Sadly, there are a few that don't.  Good post anyway Ikarti, I liked the exception you made.
S3v3N
lolwut?
+685|6507|Montucky

oug wrote:

Cougar wrote:

Disaster relief.
Community service.
Charity work.
Educational outings (such as a science fair held in the cargo bay of a C-5 that was flown to a school in Oklahoma).
Augmentee security (like at the airport, to relieve the police force)


Those are just 6 off the top of my head, that I've done personally.  I'm sure there is much more that I just am not thinking of at the moment.
Ok I wasn't gonna say anything in this thread but you got me... I mean ffs is that all you guys could come up with? There must be more that that I'm sure!

Disaster relief? What the hell do you need M16s for? Next time join the Fire Department

Charity work? Why not join a charity organization that doesn't dress in camo...

Educational outings? oh alright, I see where heavily armed men are needed you got me

Augmentee security: join the cops - again no need for sand camo. (Not that the police is any different nowdays, with their kind of armory they could invade Iraq as well)

So, personal opinion: if you're in it for the money then good for you. No excuses needed. If you're doing it to serve your country then I'm afraid you picked the wrong path. Next time go with something else. Because the army is certainly NOT about all these things you guys mentioned above.
*Sigh*..
Some people just don't understand anything. I'm not going to bother explaining it to you since I can already tell you're immature and anti-military.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6550

NMZ.UncleMoo™ wrote:

disaster cleanup, border security, fund raising for good causes like cancer research and such (ever heard of the marine corps marathon? ) .  you really should consider your comment before making it.  Saves the rest of us time from reading useless posts, and answering them....
The only one on that list that isn't either a job for an armed group or something everyone else does as well is disaster cleanup, which can just as easily be done by disaster relief services (ever heard of SES?  Oh, no, of course you haven't.  You're not Australian.  So why the fuck should I know about the Marine Corps Marathon?).
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|6754|Dallas

oug wrote:

Cougar wrote:

Disaster relief.
Community service.
Charity work.
Educational outings (such as a science fair held in the cargo bay of a C-5 that was flown to a school in Oklahoma).
Augmentee security (like at the airport, to relieve the police force)


Those are just 6 off the top of my head, that I've done personally.  I'm sure there is much more that I just am not thinking of at the moment.
Ok I wasn't gonna say anything in this thread but you got me... I mean ffs is that all you guys could come up with? There must be more that that I'm sure!

Disaster relief? What the hell do you need M16s for? Next time join the Fire Department

Charity work? Why not join a charity organization that doesn't dress in camo...

Educational outings? oh alright, I see where heavily armed men are needed you got me

Augmentee security: join the cops - again no need for sand camo. (Not that the police is any different nowdays, with their kind of armory they could invade Iraq as well)

So, personal opinion: if you're in it for the money then good for you. No excuses needed. If you're doing it to serve your country then I'm afraid you picked the wrong path. Next time go with something else. Because the army is certainly NOT about all these things you guys mentioned above.
You sir, win the award for biggest idiot of the week.

Actually, make that month.  Come back to the forums when you move out of your parents house and get a job, because you obviously don't get out much.

Last edited by Cougar (2006-10-11 05:53:47)

Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6705

Cougar wrote:

oug wrote:

Cougar wrote:

Disaster relief.
Community service.
Charity work.
Educational outings (such as a science fair held in the cargo bay of a C-5 that was flown to a school in Oklahoma).
Augmentee security (like at the airport, to relieve the police force)


Those are just 6 off the top of my head, that I've done personally.  I'm sure there is much more that I just am not thinking of at the moment.
Ok I wasn't gonna say anything in this thread but you got me... I mean ffs is that all you guys could come up with? There must be more that that I'm sure!

Disaster relief? What the hell do you need M16s for? Next time join the Fire Department

Charity work? Why not join a charity organization that doesn't dress in camo...

Educational outings? oh alright, I see where heavily armed men are needed you got me

Augmentee security: join the cops - again no need for sand camo. (Not that the police is any different nowdays, with their kind of armory they could invade Iraq as well)

So, personal opinion: if you're in it for the money then good for you. No excuses needed. If you're doing it to serve your country then I'm afraid you picked the wrong path. Next time go with something else. Because the army is certainly NOT about all these things you guys mentioned above.
You sir, win the award for biggest idiot of the week.

Actually, make that month.  Come back to the forums when you move out of your parents house and get a job, because you obviously don't get out much.
Biggest idiot of the year I say.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
BVC
Member
+325|6685

oug wrote:

Ok I wasn't gonna say anything in this thread but you got me... I mean ffs is that all you guys could come up with? There must be more that that I'm sure!

Disaster relief? What the hell do you need M16s for? Next time join the Fire Department

Charity work? Why not join a charity organization that doesn't dress in camo...

Educational outings? oh alright, I see where heavily armed men are needed you got me

Augmentee security: join the cops - again no need for sand camo. (Not that the police is any different nowdays, with their kind of armory they could invade Iraq as well)

So, personal opinion: if you're in it for the money then good for you. No excuses needed. If you're doing it to serve your country then I'm afraid you picked the wrong path. Next time go with something else. Because the army is certainly NOT about all these things you guys mentioned above.
A nation's military is typically it's largest trained, disciplined and deployable organisation.  The threats a nation's military provides protection from need not be military.

Soldiers, besides being trained how to kill, are also trained in such things as first aid, large-scale food preparation and logistics, all essential components of any disaster relief effort.  Not to mention that they're bloody fit!  Short of having a specialist disaster-relief organisation, a nation's military is the best thing for the task.  New Orleans ring a bell?

I for one am glad to know that should something serious happen here, the NZ army will help out if the need arises.  Incidently, they provided catering for the recent funeral of the Maori queen.  A couple of field kitchens, thousands of mourners...

Last edited by Pubic (2006-10-11 06:17:08)

midnitebassist
Countersniper
+11|6518|here
Anti-military idiots.  I support the soldiers who are fighting right now (lord knows, some of those guys are family), but I don't support the war.  Yes, I support the fighter but not the fight.  Personally, I think we have no reason to be in Iraq right now.  IMO, Bush used this "war on terror" to go after the guy who tried to kill his daddy.  Hell, to me, Afghanistan was pushing it.  But as long as our soldiers are overseas, I'll support them until the end of the world.
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6508|Πάϊ

midnitebassist wrote:

Anti-military idiots.  I support the soldiers who are fighting right now (lord knows, some of those guys are family), but I don't support the war.  Yes, I support the fighter but not the fight.  Personally, I think we have no reason to be in Iraq right now.  IMO, Bush used this "war on terror" to go after the guy who tried to kill his daddy.  Hell, to me, Afghanistan was pushing it.  But as long as our soldiers are overseas, I'll support them until the end of the world.
Supporting your troops makes absolute sense. The other option would be to wish them dead and that would be just stupid.
ƒ³
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6508|Πάϊ

Pubic wrote:

A nation's military is typically it's largest trained, disciplined and deployable organisation.  The threats a nation's military provides protection from need not be military.

Soldiers, besides being trained how to kill, are also trained in such things as first aid, large-scale food preparation and logistics, all essential components of any disaster relief effort.  Not to mention that they're bloody fit!  Short of having a specialist disaster-relief organisation, a nation's military is the best thing for the task.  New Orleans ring a bell?

I for one am glad to know that should something serious happen here, the NZ army will help out if the need arises.  Incidently, they provided catering for the recent funeral of the Maori queen.  A couple of field kitchens, thousands of mourners...
What you say is true. But if what you mentioned above was their primary task then they shouldn't carry guns and they should not be trained how to kill at all. Just because it so happens that a nation's military is usefull in paramilitary situations does not mean they are not an army. No soldier aver joined so he can provide first aid, or help in case of a disaster. Those are tasks carried out on the side, if necessary.

PS: Cougar and Cyborg_ninja would you care to elaborate instead of talking trash? I thought not.

Last edited by oug (2006-10-11 06:54:03)

ƒ³
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6751

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

Cougar wrote:

oug wrote:


Ok I wasn't gonna say anything in this thread but you got me... I mean ffs is that all you guys could come up with? There must be more that that I'm sure!

Disaster relief? What the hell do you need M16s for? Next time join the Fire Department

Charity work? Why not join a charity organization that doesn't dress in camo...

Educational outings? oh alright, I see where heavily armed men are needed you got me

Augmentee security: join the cops - again no need for sand camo. (Not that the police is any different nowdays, with their kind of armory they could invade Iraq as well)

So, personal opinion: if you're in it for the money then good for you. No excuses needed. If you're doing it to serve your country then I'm afraid you picked the wrong path. Next time go with something else. Because the army is certainly NOT about all these things you guys mentioned above.
You sir, win the award for biggest idiot of the week.

Actually, make that month.  Come back to the forums when you move out of your parents house and get a job, because you obviously don't get out much.
Biggest idiot of the year I say.
Hmmm....biggest idiot since this forum opened, and that is saying A LOT. 


On a side note, OUG, when I was stationed in Seattle, every week our unit would send about 5 or 6 Marines to this local grade school every Tuesday.  (It is north of Silverdale for you Washington State folks)  We would help the kids with their reading, we helped them improve their school by fixing up the playground and little projects like that.  The kids absolutely loved us, and they would look forward to that day.  I actually enjoyed it, and kids generally annoy the shit out of me.

As for why you need an M-16 for disaster relief....... if you remember New Orleans helicopters were being shot at and cops were being killed, so use your brain......if that is possible.
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6679|Tampa Bay Florida

usmarine2005 wrote:

Hmmm....biggest idiot since this forum opened, and that is saying A LOT.
His comment might've been dumb, or not well thought out, but I don't think you can say he's the biggest idiot.  lol.  Does anyone remember that guy who created 5 or 6 random usernames and spammed stuff about the world ending last June because of 6/6/06?  lol.  I think the award should go to him.
Masques
Black Panzer Party
+184|6711|Eastern PA

oug wrote:

Pubic wrote:

A nation's military is typically it's largest trained, disciplined and deployable organisation.  The threats a nation's military provides protection from need not be military.

Soldiers, besides being trained how to kill, are also trained in such things as first aid, large-scale food preparation and logistics, all essential components of any disaster relief effort.  Not to mention that they're bloody fit!  Short of having a specialist disaster-relief organisation, a nation's military is the best thing for the task.  New Orleans ring a bell?

I for one am glad to know that should something serious happen here, the NZ army will help out if the need arises.  Incidently, they provided catering for the recent funeral of the Maori queen.  A couple of field kitchens, thousands of mourners...
What you say is true. But if what you mentioned above was their primary task then they shouldn't carry guns and they should not be trained how to kill at all. Just because it so happens that a nation's military is usefull in paramilitary situations does not mean they are not an army. No soldier aver joined so he can provide first aid, or help in case of a disaster. Those are tasks carried out on the side, if necessary.

PS: Cougar and Cyborg_ninja would you care to elaborate instead of talking trash? I thought not.
Primary task is always national defense. But, the USN (which I'm more familiar with) did provide a lot of logistical and medical support during the 2004 tsunami and regularly handles tasks in the arena of maritime constabulary (ie. piracy, human trafficking, smuggling, drug trafficking, etc.).

But when we're talking about disaster relief, we're not just talking about the individual member of the military. The organization as a whole is also configured in such a way as to move large masses of men/women and materiel ostensibly for combat purposes, which is always the primary duty of any defense oriented organization, but many of those roles are also necessary for relief organizations (ie. UNICEF, MSF, ICRC, etc.). A military organization as such as that possessed by the US, that essentially specializes in moving shit quickly is dual-use.

Also, you must distinguish between the nat'l guard and active/reserve forces. Nat'l guard has traditionally been more oriented towards domestic disaster relief and riot control than foreign defense, which is why there were so many stories about how many of the NG troops weren't properly equipped and trained.

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2024 Jeff Minard