Cougar
Banned
+1,962|6783|Dallas
I think you should read this excerpt from Time Magazine:

Time Magazine wrote:

By announcing that it has tested a nuclear device, North Korea has ushered in a new age of global proliferation. One of the world's most closed societies and its megalomoniacal ruler now possess the ultimate weapon. Before long Kim Jong Il will be able to load nuclear warheads onto his long-range missiles and take aim at Los Angeles. Or he could outsource the job to al-Qaeda. A nuclear arms race in North Asia is inevitable. Overnight, the world has become a much scarier place.

Or has it? Let's say, for the sake of argument, that North Korea really did test a working nuclear weapon yesterday (as opposed to a smaller, cruder device, which may be just as plausible). How big a disaster would that really be? For years, intelligence estimates have said that North Korea already had the material for several nuclear bombs. Most analysts believed that it was only a matter of time before Kim went nuclear. Compared to India's nuclear test in 1998, which really did take the U.S. by surprise, North Korea's announcement was practically a foregone conclusion.

The real news is that it's not all bad. Now that Pyongyang has confirmed what everyone suspected, it may find it has a less leverage to play the U.S. off against the other parties in the dispute. Everything about China's response to the North Korean test suggests that the Chinese are furious with Kim. The same appears to be true of South Korea, which until now had been pushing to make nice with the North. In in the wake of the test, it's almost impossible to see how Kim can avoid action by the U.N. Security Council. And though truly punitive sanctions are unlikely, at least at first, the prospect of the international community finally condemning Kim in a single voice has to count as some kind of progress.

The two main risks posed by a nuclear North Korea, of course, are very real — proliferation and black-market sales in nuclear technology. But both dangers may be exaggerated. Kim has already said he won't peddle his wares beyond his borders, a claim that may be more credible than it sounds. It's safe to assume that terrorist groups wouldn't hesitate to use a nuclear device against an American city if they ever got their hands on one; but that heightens the risk to the supplier too. Any evidence that a nuclear terror bomb had been supplied by Pyongyang would result in that country's liquidation. Proliferation is harder to stop, though it's doubtful that there's much public appetite in countries like Japan and South Korea for an expensive, destabilizing arms race. One of the first things the U.S. should do now is reassure those nations that the U.S. is committed to their defense and they are protected by America's nuclear umbrella. Far from what North Korea hopes, the U.S. will probably feel compelled to become more assertive in the region, not less.

But firmness doesn't have to lead to confrontation. The only realistic option for containing North Korea is the same as what it was before the test. It's easy for nuclear wannabes to decry the hypocrisy of the great powers and proclaim their right to join the nuclear club; but once they get there, they have to play by the club's rules. Kim Jong Il may have believed that getting the bomb was the best way to defend himself against the threat of regime change; but should he ever use his new weapon, regime change — administered in the form of massive nuclear retaliation by the U.S. and its allies — is now assured. And that points to the last unintended benefit of North Korea's nuclear test. After more than a decade of drift, indecision and disagreement, the world may finally have stumbled upon a coherent policy toward North Korea. It's called deterrence. At least we know it's worked before.
I totally agree with this.  Kim may be a complete nut job, but he isn't stupid, he wouldn't have maintained power this long if he was stupid.  He knows that if even thinks of attacking someone with this nuke of his, he is going to get blasted off the face of the Earth.  If anything, I believe in a few years that this will probably make a more stable Korean Peninsula.  Both sides will have nukes and they will both know it.  Either side will be to afraid to attack the other. 

Mutually Assured Destruction.
Delta Leader1
Member
+0|6464
Agreed, and well according to my sources the 7th fleet. is siting right off the coast of north korea..... one false move. and the marine's will take matters into there own hands...
TuataraDude
Member
+115|6541|Aotearoa
While I am reluctant to agree with anything Time magazine writes (don't ask), I have to concede that they probably have it fairly right on this occaision. I still think the risk of selling nukes is higher than Romesh would like to indicate. If Kim Jong Il was offered enough, he might actually do it. Money can do strange things to some people.
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|6783|Dallas

Delta Leader1 wrote:

Agreed, and well according to my sources the 7th fleet. is siting right off the coast of north korea..... one false move. and the marine's will take matters into there own hands...
That's nice to know as well.  I'm pretty sure North Koreans are all bark and not much bite according to a friend who worked guard duty on the DMZ.  He told me a story once about how one of the North Korean guards directly across from them got the bright idea to point his rifle at them and give the gesture of firing it.  So the next day, they pulled two tanks up to the wire and pointed the turrets up at the North Koreans guard tower and sat there like that all day.

He said the guy never did that again.
Masques
Black Panzer Party
+184|6741|Eastern PA
Also this doesn't change anything re: the ROK and US troops stationed there. With the size of the DPRK military and the closeness of Seoul and US bases to the DMZ, they would amount to little more than a speed bump for the DPRK on the road to Seoul in the case of invasion. Seoul itself is also well within range of DPRK conventional arms (artillery and such) and could easily be destroyed without invasion or the use of nuclear weapons.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6694|Canberra, AUS
The real fear here, I think, is that DPRK will give/get the weapon stolen by terrorists.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6548|Global Command
Exactly, our hero, W is considering a ful naval and air blockade. Or inspections of all incoming and out going freight.
Aenima_Eyes
Member
+20|6670
Kim Jong Il just wants to continue ruling his people with an iron fist.  He knows that if too many of them starve to death they won't be able to feed his fat face and they'll probably revolt.  So, he acts like he's going to fuck with the USA so we give him money and food.  He's never going to do anything with that nuclear technology except use it as a bargaining tool to keep himself in power.

Problem is, the USA can't do anything about getting him out of power.  He's basically the same as Saddam and look what happened when we got rid of Saddam.  We got bitched at by the entire world.  Same thing would happen if we got rid of Kim Jon Il.  Everyone would denounce us for meddling in the world's affairs and killing innocents and blah blah blah.  However it is a no-win situation because people are already talking shit about us for not dealing with Kim Jong Il earlier.  It's already all our fault because we "forced him into this position."  What a load of horseshit.
Marlboroman82
Personal philosophy: Clothing optional.
+1,022|6642|Camp XRay

This is the full text of the draft UN resolution for sanctions against North Korea put forward by the United States wrote:

The Security Council,

Recalling its previous relevant resolutions, including resolution 825 (1993), resolution 1540 (2004) and, in particular, resolution 1695 (2006), as well as the statement of its President of 6 October 2006 (S/PRST/2006/41),

Reaffirming that proliferation of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, as their means of delivery, constitutes a threat to international peace and security,

Expressing the gravest concern at the reports that the DPRK has conducted tests of a nuclear weapon on 9 October 2006, and at the challenge such test constitutes to international efforts aimed at strengthening the global regime of nonproliferation of nuclear weapons, and the danger it poses to peace and stability in the region,

Deploring the DPRK's announcement of withdrawal from the Treaty on Nonproliferation of Nuclear Weapons (the Treaty) and its pursuit of nuclear weapons,

Deploring further that the DPRK has refused to return to the Six-Party talks without precondition,

Stressing the importance of the Joint Statement issued on 19 September 2005 by China, DPRK, Japan, Republic of Korea, the Russian Federation and the United States,

Expressing profound concern that the test by the DPRK will generate increased tension in the region and beyond,

Determining that the situation in the DPRK constitutes a threat to international peace and security;

Acting under chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations;

1. Condemns the nuclear test conducted by the DPRK on 9 October 2006 in flagrant disregard of the statement of the Council's President of 6 October 2006 (S/PRST/2006/41), including the statement that such a test would bring universal condemnation of the international community and would represent a clear threat to international peace and security, and demands that the DPRK refrain from any further nuclear tests;

2. Demands that the DPRK return immediately to the Six-Party Talks without precondition, and return at an early date to the Treaty on Nonproliferation of Nuclear Weapons and International Atomic Energy Agency safeguards;

3. Recalls its previous demand that the DPRK suspend all activities related to its ballistic missile program and in this context re-establish its pre-existing commitments to a moratorium on missile launching, and underscores that the DPRK is required to do so under Article 25 of the Charter of the United Nations;

4. Decides further that the DPRK shall eliminate its nuclear weapons and nuclear programs, to be verified by the IAEA, and shall act strictly in accordance with the obligations applicable to parties under the Treaty on Nonproliferation of Nuclear Weapons and the terms and conditions of its IAEA safeguards agreement (IAEA INFCIRC/403);

5. Decides further that all Member States shall take the necessary measures:

(a) to prevent the direct or indirect supply, sale or transfer to the DPRK, from their territories or by their nationals, or using their flag vessels or aircraft, and whether or not originating in their territories, of any -

(i) arms or any related material;

(ii) nuclear-related or ballistic missile-related items, materials, goods, and technology, including dual-use items, covered by relevant multilateral treaties and arrangements, or included on national control lists, not covered by (i) above; and

(iii) luxury goods;

(b) to prevent any transfers to the DPRK by their nationals or from their territories of technical training, advice or assistance related to the provision, manufacture, maintenance or use of items in subparagraph (a) above;

(c) to prevent the procurement of items described in (a) above from the DPRK; and

(d) to prevent the transfer to or from their territory, or to or by their nationals or persons in their territory, of any financial or other assets or resources in relation to the DPRK's missile or weapons of mass destruction (WMD) programs, or in relation to illicit activities such as those related to counterfeiting, money-laundering or narcotics, including by freezing any financial or other assets or resources on their territories that are associated with such programs or activities, and to prevent any abuses of the international financial system that could contribute to the development of such items by, or transfers of such items to or from, the DPRK, and that the provisions of this paragraph shall supersede the requirements of paragraphs 3 and 4 of resolution 1695 (2006), and calls upon all Member States, consistent with international law, to undertake and facilitate inspection of cargo to or from the DPRK as necessary to ensure compliance with the requirements of this paragraph;

6. Calls upon all Member States to report to the Security Council within 30 days of the coming into force of the measures imposed by paragraph 5 above on the steps they have taken with a view to implementing effectively paragraph 5 above;

7. Decides that the provisions of paragraph 5(d) above do not apply to financial or other assets or resources that have been determined by relevant States:

(a) to be necessary for basic expenses, including payment for foodstuffs, rent or mortgage, medicines and medical treatment, taxes, insurance premiums, and public utility charges, or exclusively for payment of reasonable professional fees and reimbursement of incurred expenses associated with the provision of legal services, or fees or service charges, in accordance with national laws, for routine holding or maintenance of frozen funds, other financial assets and economic resources, after notification by the relevant States to the Security Council of the intention to authorize, where appropriate, access to such funds, other financial assets and economic resources and in the absence of a negative decision by the Security Council within five working days of such notification,

(b) to be necessary for extraordinary expenses, provided that such determination has been notified by the relevant States to the Security Council and has been approved by the Security Council, or

(c) to be subject of a judicial, administrative or arbitral lien or judgment, in which case the funds, other financial assets and economic resources may be used to satisfy that lien or judgment provided that the lien or judgment: was entered prior to the date of the present resolution, is not for the benefit of a person referred to in paragraph 5(e) above or an individual or entity identified by the Security Council, and has been notified by the relevant States to the Security Council;

8. Affirms that it shall review DPRK actions within 30 days of the date of adoption of this resolution, and that it shall be prepared to take such further action as may be needed at that time;

9. Decides to remain actively seized of the matter.

Last edited by Marlboroman82 (2006-10-10 22:17:14)

https://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/marlboroman82/Untitled-8.png
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6620|132 and Bush

So am I to understand that you believe that threatening the world is the best way to get what you want? Especially when you rely on it so much to feed your starving people.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
eyesteponbabies
Banned
+13|6450|St.Louis, Missouri
That means war! Russia rules.
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|6783|Dallas

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7278951069225366106&q=atom+bomb+nuclear
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … mb+nuclear
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … mb+nuclear
*OUCH*
That second video is fucking leet dude.
spray_and_pray
Member
+52|6510|Perth. Western Australia
You do know time magazine also wrote hitler man of the century in the 30's.
JahManRed
wank
+646|6647|IRELAND

spray_and_pray wrote:

You do know time magazine also wrote hitler man of the century in the 30's.
Yep, and so he was, we are still talking about him now ffs!
S3v3N
lolwut?
+685|6537|Montucky

Cougar wrote:

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7278951069225366106&q=atom+bomb+nuclear
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … mb+nuclear
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … mb+nuclear
*OUCH*
That second video is fucking leet dude.
QFT
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6568|Southeastern USA

S3v3N wrote:

Cougar wrote:

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7278951069225366106&q=atom+bomb+nuclear
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … mb+nuclear
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … mb+nuclear
*OUCH*
That second video is fucking leet dude.
QFT
rob zombie!! I miss that cd

but yes, the main worry is the proliferation of nuke tech to terror interests, i think even lil kim knows even china would smack his ass if he launched
aardfrith
Δ > x > ¥
+145|6811

kr@cker wrote:

S3v3N wrote:

Cougar wrote:


That second video is fucking leet dude.
QFT
rob zombie!! I miss that cd

but yes, the main worry is the proliferation of nuke tech to terror interests, i think even lil kim knows even china would smack his ass if he launched
If nuclear proliferation to al-qaeda and co. is the main worry here, why are we imposing ever more stringent sanctions against them and thus restricting cash-flow into the country?  The economy has failed and the only way it seems North Korea can get money is by trading with countries that aren't taking part in sanctions, i.e. rogue nations and non-nation-specific organisations.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6791|PNW

kr@cker wrote:

S3v3N wrote:

Cougar wrote:


That second video is fucking leet dude.
QFT
rob zombie!! I miss that cd

but yes, the main worry is the proliferation of nuke tech to terror interests, i think even lil kim knows even china would smack his ass if he launched
Lucky for us, we have an "official" Axis of Evil to flatten if some unknown atomic bomb did detonate in a city.
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6567|San Diego, CA, USA
What exactly did the deal we made with North Korea to give them Light Water Reactors in the mid-90s do to help them with their current Nukes?
MorbidFetus
Member
+76|6570|Ohio

spray_and_pray wrote:

You do know time magazine also wrote hitler man of the century in the 30's.
No, Time made Hitler "Man Of The Year" in 1938. This does not mean he was the most liked.

From Time:

"TIME's choices for Person of the Year are often controversial. Editors are asked to choose the person or thing that had the greatest impact on the news, for good or ill—guidelines that leave them no choice but to select a newsworthy—not necessarily praiseworthy—cover subject."

Time bitched out and made Guillani "POTY" because readers threatened to cancel their subscriptions if Bin Ladin was on the cover.
golgoj4
Member
+51|6793|North Hollywood

Harmor wrote:

What exactly did the deal we made with North Korea to give them Light Water Reactors in the mid-90s do to help them with their current Nukes?
Ask Rummy. He was on the board of the company that sold them.
Sarrk
O-O-O A-O A
+788|6674|Brisbane, Australia

Korean Cold War...
Masques
Black Panzer Party
+184|6741|Eastern PA

Harmor wrote:

What exactly did the deal we made with North Korea to give them Light Water Reactors in the mid-90s do to help them with their current Nukes?
http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/a … mework.asp

On October 21, 1994, the United States and North Korea signed an agreement-the Agreed Framework-calling upon Pyongyang to freeze operation and construction of nuclear reactors suspected of being part of a covert nuclear weapons program in exchange for two proliferation-resistant nuclear power reactors. The agreement also called upon the United States to supply North Korea with fuel oil pending construction of the reactors. An international consortium called the Korean Peninsula Energy Development Organization (KEDO) was formed to implement the agreement.
Unfortunately, the Bush adminstration didn't hold to their end of the agreement and froze both the sale of the proliferation-resistant reactors and the fuel oil shortly after coming to power.
nancyhutto
Member
+0|6427
We really should do more to help North Korea with its power problems.  We should be expanding our nuclear exports to them instead of instigating an embargo.  Kim Jong Il just wants a dialogoue.  Once we get that going, the world will truly see that he is a Great Leader!  As a graduate student at Baylor, I studied in North Korea and met Kim several times.  He is on the level of a George Washington, fighting for his people.

[email protected]

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