IRONCHEF, I believe there comes a time where people need to differentiate between being "imperfect" and repeatedly fornicating and "asking Jesus for forgiveness." If you ask me, if you keep breaking the rules, you're spitting in Jesus' face.IRONCHEF wrote:
I would ask you to define exactly what you mean by being truly "christian."
When I say that "most christians aren't christian" I am using a blanket statement that is inacurrate, but I'll use it in context to a topic like Jesus Camp. To elaborate, I would refine my blanket statement by saying that the so-called christians who send their children to jesus camp have no clue what christ taught, therefore negating the title they pervert of being a christian. LIkewise, I say such things about our president who panders to said christians while absolutely abandoning any semblance to christian laws..for example warfare. Proof of this is that abortion is still completely available..yet probably 99% of Bush's "christian" base voted for him because he promised them something would be done about it...and gay marriage, flag burning, and other bs he couldn't possibly change.
As for your comment of the rarity of abstinence and real christians, I agree. This is why I'm asking you to define what you consider being christian? Because if being perfect is how you define it, then there's no such thing as a christian, and you'd be wrong in your definition because being a christian doesn't mean you're perfect. TO the contrary, being christian means you know you're imperfect and you wish to improve your life by living the teachings of christ. In short Christian = practioner of the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Poll
Would you consider/have engaged in premarital sex?
| Yes, already been there and done that. | 66% | 66% - 209 | ||||
| Yes, I will if I get the chance to/grow up. | 18% | 18% - 59 | ||||
| Undecided, need to learn more. | 5% | 5% - 17 | ||||
| Definitely not, it's wrong. | 9% | 9% - 29 | ||||
| Total: 314 | ||||||
haha, cool!
I'm not sure if i confused you or helped you, but ok. So you got little puglets that will become teenagers some day? And you'll be teaching them abstinence? Good for you.
My little babies.
I'm not sure if i confused you or helped you, but ok. So you got little puglets that will become teenagers some day? And you'll be teaching them abstinence? Good for you.
My little babies.
Damn I missed a lot in the past two hours.
What I was probably saying 4 pages ago was about a show of character. You can contain said "instincts" or act like Glenn Quagmire. For a bad comparison, it's like quitting smoking. If you can go cold turkey, good for you. You were able to fight the cravings and urges to pick up the habit again. If not, well then, you may give into temptation easier than others.
What I was probably saying 4 pages ago was about a show of character. You can contain said "instincts" or act like Glenn Quagmire. For a bad comparison, it's like quitting smoking. If you can go cold turkey, good for you. You were able to fight the cravings and urges to pick up the habit again. If not, well then, you may give into temptation easier than others.
More or less ditto... past relationships simply equal - life experience nothing more; nothing less.Pug wrote:
Well, what I'm getting from you is:IRONCHEF wrote:
I would ask you to define exactly what you mean by being truly "christian."
When I say that "most christians aren't christian" I am using a blanket statement that is inacurrate, but I'll use it in context to a topic like Jesus Camp. To elaborate, I would refine my blanket statement by saying that the so-called christians who send their children to jesus camp have no clue what christ taught, therefore negating the title they pervert of being a christian. LIkewise, I say such things about our president who panders to said christians while absolutely abandoning any semblance to christian laws..for example warfare. Proof of this is that abortion is still completely available..yet probably 99% of Bush's "christian" base voted for him because he promised them something would be done about it...and gay marriage, flag burning, and other bs he couldn't possibly change.
As for your comment of the rarity of abstinence and real christians, I agree. This is why I'm asking you to define what you consider being christian? Because if being perfect is how you define it, then there's no such thing as a christian, and you'd be wrong in your definition because being a christian doesn't mean you're perfect. TO the contrary, being christian means you know you're imperfect and you wish to improve your life by living the teachings of christ. In short Christian = practioner of the teachings of Jesus Christ.
1) it is not possible to be in love if you aren't married
2) sex should not occur unless you are in love
I agree with #2 but not #1.
You led with "wasting your purity prior to marriage". Being married myself, I can't say that I can love my wife more. I would say its probably the same with you.
But I do not believe messing around before marriage has had any impact on our relationship. If it did, I would suspect our relationship would be based more on sex and not what it really is.
Personally I decided early on in my young life - after dating (American Christian) girls - and being American and formerly Christian this (Christian until 11 - then I lost all interest in Santa-Jesus):
1.) I most certainly would not marry an American.
2.) I most certainly would not marry a Christian.
The Christian girls that would not give it up - because they deemed it to be the fulfillment of some archaic notion; that of being a "gift," - my "curiosity" simply whispered to me "irrelevant bore."
The Christian girls that did give it up - turned out to be "un-interesting bores," to hung-up on hating their flesh at the bequest of an idiotic clergy suggestion - oh, let me change that to: "suggestible bores."
The Christian values - seemed un-natural and ignorant to me and overly guided by tradition rather than understanding or reality. And I was extremely un-interested in plastic values as well (those being American materialism).
So I had to do the right thing - for me.
Find a super hot well-educated non-Christian NON-VIRGIN Swedish sex-toy that would treat me like a sex-toy. Someone from a small town in Sweden - that's the ticket!
BINGO! JACKPOT! It happened.
Last edited by topal63 (2006-10-10 14:16:17)
Oh, I agree. I'm of the understanding that repentance is a 4 step process. However, the mainstream christian beliefs of the world seem to be simply feeling guilty and saying sorry. Such an "apology" is a mere gesture. Christ didn't say to offer up your guilt and all will be well. He wants your broken heart and contrite spirit so that you understand 'why' what you did was bad, and so you can perpare to live without repeating.Ikarti wrote:
IRONCHEF, I believe there comes a time where people need to differentiate between being "imperfect" and repeatedly fornicating and "asking Jesus for forgiveness." If you ask me, if you keep breaking the rules, you're spitting in Jesus' face.
4 steps as I practice them:
1) recognize that you have sinned (sin=violate god's law...ie; fornication). in recognizing that you have offended God having previously made a covenant to not do so, and naturally you should feel horrible for doing so.
2) sincerely pray to God confessing your sin (yes, he already knows, but you saying it is still necessary) and asking for forgiveness. adding promises in exchange for help is a good idea too at this point.
3) make ammends where possible (if you steal, return it; if you hate, love, etc). in the case of fornication, you cannot restore robbed virtue. but you can live cleanly from then on.
4) abandon the sin. in this case, you must truly forsake the activity...if you live with your girl and you need to stop then part of abandoning may require seperating until marriage if that's your goal. also, avoiding situations that lead to fornicating is part of abandoning. abandonment of sins should also NOT be done alone...you should constantly ask for help.
The repentance process is different for many people in many different churches. It's also probably different for non-church attending people who understand how God deals with man and how Christ's mercy applies to them.
Anyway, getting a little too preachy here for my taste. I'll gladly take this to PMs if you would like.
Last edited by IRONCHEF (2006-10-10 14:19:01)
Good to see all your wildest dreams have come true! Congrats on the depth of your self-discovery!topal63 wrote:
More or less ditto... past relationships simply equal - life experience nothing more; nothing less.Pug wrote:
Well, what I'm getting from you is:IRONCHEF wrote:
I would ask you to define exactly what you mean by being truly "christian."
When I say that "most christians aren't christian" I am using a blanket statement that is inacurrate, but I'll use it in context to a topic like Jesus Camp. To elaborate, I would refine my blanket statement by saying that the so-called christians who send their children to jesus camp have no clue what christ taught, therefore negating the title they pervert of being a christian. LIkewise, I say such things about our president who panders to said christians while absolutely abandoning any semblance to christian laws..for example warfare. Proof of this is that abortion is still completely available..yet probably 99% of Bush's "christian" base voted for him because he promised them something would be done about it...and gay marriage, flag burning, and other bs he couldn't possibly change.
As for your comment of the rarity of abstinence and real christians, I agree. This is why I'm asking you to define what you consider being christian? Because if being perfect is how you define it, then there's no such thing as a christian, and you'd be wrong in your definition because being a christian doesn't mean you're perfect. TO the contrary, being christian means you know you're imperfect and you wish to improve your life by living the teachings of christ. In short Christian = practioner of the teachings of Jesus Christ.
1) it is not possible to be in love if you aren't married
2) sex should not occur unless you are in love
I agree with #2 but not #1.
You led with "wasting your purity prior to marriage". Being married myself, I can't say that I can love my wife more. I would say its probably the same with you.
But I do not believe messing around before marriage has had any impact on our relationship. If it did, I would suspect our relationship would be based more on sex and not what it really is.
Personally I decided early on in my young life - after dating (American Christian) girls - and being American and formerly Christian this (Christian until 11 - then I lost all interest in Santa-Jesus):
1.) I most certainly would not marry an American.
2.) I most certainly would not marry a Christian.
The Christian girls that would not give it up - because they deemed it to be the fulfillment of some archaic notion; that of being a "gift," - my "curiosity" simply whispered to me "irrelevant bore."
The Christian girls that did give it up - turned out to be "un-interesting bores," to hung-up on hating their flesh at the bequest of an idiotic clergy suggestion - oh, let me change that to: "suggestible bores."
The Christian values - seemed un-natural and ignorant to me and overly guided by tradition rather than understanding or reality. And I was extremely un-interested in plastic values as well (those being American materialism).
So I had to do the right thing - for me.
Find a super hot well-educated non-Christian NON-VIRGIN Swedish sex-toy that would treat me like a sex-toy. Someone from a small town in Sweden - that's the ticket!
BINGO! JACKPOT! It happened.
Congrats on the depth of your attempt at a personal insult.IRONCHEF wrote:
Good to see all your wildest dreams have come true! Congrats on the depth of your self-discovery!topal63 wrote:
More or less ditto... past relationships simply equal - life experience nothing more; nothing less.Pug wrote:
Well, what I'm getting from you is:
1) it is not possible to be in love if you aren't married
2) sex should not occur unless you are in love
I agree with #2 but not #1.
You led with "wasting your purity prior to marriage". Being married myself, I can't say that I can love my wife more. I would say its probably the same with you.
But I do not believe messing around before marriage has had any impact on our relationship. If it did, I would suspect our relationship would be based more on sex and not what it really is.
Personally I decided early on in my young life - after dating (American Christian) girls - and being American and formerly Christian this (Christian until 11 - then I lost all interest in Santa-Jesus):
1.) I most certainly would not marry an American.
2.) I most certainly would not marry a Christian.
The Christian girls that would not give it up - because they deemed it to be the fulfillment of some archaic notion; that of being a "gift," - my "curiosity" simply whispered to me "irrelevant bore."
The Christian girls that did give it up - turned out to be "un-interesting bores," to hung-up on hating their flesh at the bequest of an idiotic clergy suggestion - oh, let me change that to: "suggestible bores."
The Christian values - seemed un-natural and ignorant to me and overly guided by tradition rather than understanding or reality. And I was extremely un-interested in plastic values as well (those being American materialism).
So I had to do the right thing - for me.
Find a super hot well-educated non-Christian NON-VIRGIN Swedish sex-toy that would treat me like a sex-toy. Someone from a small town in Sweden - that's the ticket!
BINGO! JACKPOT! It happened.
Apologies. I meant it as sarcasm considering your shallow approach to finding the right woman..one that pleases you sexually being your one and only criteria. Surely you'd want a woman who can carry a conversation with you, someone who can help you adjust to a long day of posting on BF2s while at work. Perhaps a woman who has similar interests as you. Or am I wrong?
My girlfriend is a virgin, very intelligent girl, finished high school early, has an associates degree in case her singing career doesn't work out, plans to go back for a bachelor's if that's the case. I will wait for her.
I will never understand why people "save" themselves for marriage. A lot of marriages fail, so if you get divorced, do you have to wait until you get married again to have sex? People who deny themselves pleasure because of religion need to think twice if it makes any sense.
I sing too. Would you marry me? I even have a video out that's pretty popular. Maybe you've heard of it..it's called "Numa numa lei!"
I bought that CD while I was in Iceland.IRONCHEF wrote:
I sing too. Would you marry me? I even have a video out that's pretty popular. Maybe you've heard of it..it's called "Numa numa lei!"
Yes you are wrong - and in your assumption of "lack of depth" - you are also implying that the woman who actually enjoys sex (and is un-encumbered by religious dogma, ideas, psychological-schisms) lacks depth.IRONCHEF wrote:
Apologies. I meant it as sarcasm considering your shallow approach to finding the right woman..one that pleases you sexually being your one and only criteria. Surely you'd want a woman who can carry a conversation with you, someone who can help you adjust to a long day of posting on BF2s while at work. Perhaps a woman who has similar interests as you. Or am I wrong?
Also contained in your assumption (of "lack of depth") is this: that sex, being married, being male/female - is itself a sole definition of BEING. I do not think it is - nor was it implied. That assumption of sole determination belongs to you.
And YES it was important to me that her BEING was NOT encumbered by archaic notions I find un-natural and ignorant. I have already stated that.
People who deny themselves pleasure become stronger and sometimes better people..regardless if they did it for religion or to quit smoking. The principle of sacrifice is not very well understood by most...are we not a lazy society?usmarine2005 wrote:
I will never understand why people "save" themselves for marriage. A lot of marriages fail, so if you get divorced, do you have to wait until you get married again to have sex? People who deny themselves pleasure because of religion need to think twice if it makes any sense.
Smoking is not essential to life, sex is.IRONCHEF wrote:
People who deny themselves pleasure become stronger and sometimes better people..regardless if they did it for religion or to quit smoking. The principle of sacrifice is not very well understood by most...are we not a lazy society?usmarine2005 wrote:
I will never understand why people "save" themselves for marriage. A lot of marriages fail, so if you get divorced, do you have to wait until you get married again to have sex? People who deny themselves pleasure because of religion need to think twice if it makes any sense.
Amazing how you dig sooo deep and pull out soo much bs for such a simple point. You truly did say that you got a hot woman who treats you as a sex toy, and I truly did say that your idea of a dream woman seems shallow. Maybe I'm wrong. Did you and I not really say those things?topal63 wrote:
Yes you are wrong - and in your assumption of "lack of depth" - you are also implying that the woman who actually enjoys sex (and is un-encumbered by religious dogma, ideas, psychological-schisms) lacks depth.IRONCHEF wrote:
Apologies. I meant it as sarcasm considering your shallow approach to finding the right woman..one that pleases you sexually being your one and only criteria. Surely you'd want a woman who can carry a conversation with you, someone who can help you adjust to a long day of posting on BF2s while at work. Perhaps a woman who has similar interests as you. Or am I wrong?
Also contained in your assumption (of "lack of depth") is this: that sex, being married, being male/female - is itself a sole definition of BEING. I do not think it is - nor was it implied. That assumption of sole determination belongs to you.
And YES it was important to me that her BEING was NOT encumbered by archaic notions I find un-natural and ignorant. I have already stated that.
Not sure how that ties in with the above quotations, but I'll take your word for it and assume you're talking about procreation being essential to perpetuate life..because it is not essential to sustain it.usmarine2005 wrote:
Smoking is not essential to life, sex is.IRONCHEF wrote:
People who deny themselves pleasure become stronger and sometimes better people..regardless if they did it for religion or to quit smoking. The principle of sacrifice is not very well understood by most...are we not a lazy society?usmarine2005 wrote:
I will never understand why people "save" themselves for marriage. A lot of marriages fail, so if you get divorced, do you have to wait until you get married again to have sex? People who deny themselves pleasure because of religion need to think twice if it makes any sense.
That's why marriage itself has become less symbolic. People marry because the girl is pregnant or whatever. I plan on getting married once in my life, no remarriage under any circumstance. Divorce is the result of people marrying for sex.IRONCHEF wrote:
People who deny themselves pleasure become stronger and sometimes better people..regardless if they did it for religion or to quit smoking. The principle of sacrifice is not very well understood by most...are we not a lazy society?usmarine2005 wrote:
I will never understand why people "save" themselves for marriage. A lot of marriages fail, so if you get divorced, do you have to wait until you get married again to have sex? People who deny themselves pleasure because of religion need to think twice if it makes any sense.
Also marine, sex is NOT essential to life
Right. How did you get here? Why does the animal kingdom do it? Oh ya....to continue the cycle of life.DesertFox423 wrote:
Also marine, sex is NOT essential to life
then again, is it considered premarital sex if you dont plan on getting married?
Sex is not essential for the existence of an individual, but as part of a life cycle, damn straight it is.
Word. I have a friend who "saved" himself for marriage and because he couldn't get the big picture, got married for sex..and got divorced. But he had lots of good sex stories to share! lol He's now remarried, has 3 good looking kids, and has a wife for the right reasons and they are doing things nicely because of it.DesertFox423 wrote:
That's why marriage itself has become less symbolic. People marry because the girl is pregnant or whatever. I plan on getting married once in my life, no remarriage under any circumstance. Divorce is the result of people marrying for sex.
have engaged in premarital sex
Yes i have and it was/is good
Yes i have and it was/is good
You are talking about reproduction, not sex.usmarine2005 wrote:
Right. How did you get here? Why does the animal kingdom do it? Oh ya....to continue the cycle of life.DesertFox423 wrote:
Also marine, sex is NOT essential to life
There are some who wouldn't consider marrying a non-American & non-Christian denomination.topal63 wrote:
I said I WOULD NOT MARRY AN AMERICAN OR A CHRISTIAN, I have many in reasons, and some were related - some not.
Last edited by DesertFox423 (2006-10-10 15:00:40)
Good point! EVERYONE ABANDON YOUR PLANS OF PREMARITAL ABSTINENCE NOW!!! Go out and GET LAID!!R0lyP0ly wrote:
then again, is it considered premarital sex if you dont plan on getting married?
hehe, just kidding. But clever point there pal. And i mean that in a truly comedic way, and not with an ounce of reality.