BF2S Forums So, when do you Muslim supporters say "ENOUGH" ?

kr@cker wrote:

didn't one of them cover the gunmen breaking into the publishing offices and people (in europe) being beaten? I'll double check them and post a link on that if I can

You know what that list of URLs reminded me of?  AK, full auto, hip level.... and you didn't even hit what you were aiming for... 

All this "most Muslim's support burning Churches/murder" is a load of extra giblet spam... where are the Christian demonstrations to speak out against the acts by Christian terrorists?  Where are the actions taken by the rest of the Christian community to deal with the groups of murderous Christians rampaging through the south of Nigeria killing Muslims and burning Mosques...

Let's be honest, the best you can expect is a few Christian leaders to speak out saying these actions are not what God wants, and that these people are ignoring the scriptures, making baby Jesus cry, etc., etc., etc..  And expecting any more from Muslim's is double standards.  If you read those sources hard enough, you might spot that Muslims leaders are opposed to unjust violence:

your 1st link wrote:

As a third day of bloody unrest began across the country, members of Afghanistan’s Ulama Council, the country’s top Islamic clerics’ organization, went on radio and television to appeal for calm.

“Islam says it’s all right to demonstrate but not to resort to violence. This must stop,” senior cleric Mohammed Usman told The Associated Press. “We condemn the cartoons but this does not justify violence. These rioters are defaming the name of Islam.”

And the posters who use quotes from extremists who make whacked out statements about xyz to 'prove' the nature of Islam are the equivalent of someone saying that KKK Grand Wizards represent the official view of Christianity.

Good job unoriginal, you found a small group of christians in africa who killed muslims after 30 of their own got killed. I guess the extremism in christianity is equal to islam now.

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

Let's be honest, the best you can expect is a few Christian leaders to speak out saying these actions are not what God wants

No, 99% of christians would say that it was wrong and would be arresting them if it were in their own country. That wasnt even over something stupid like a cartoon, muslims killed 30 of their own people so they retaliated.

Last edited by JaMDuDe (2006-09-30 15:59:42)

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

JaMDuDe wrote:

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

Just making a small correction.

Buddhism doesnt seem like too much of a threat to me. Is it reallly threatening you that much? Islam is the only religion with huge numbers of radicals.

While Buddhism is technically a religion, I see it more as a group of spiritualists that some dogmatic religion.  So yes, I do see all dogmatic religion as a major threat to the continued existence of the human species.

Why?

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

JaMDuDe wrote:

Good job unoriginal, you found a small group of christians in africa who killed muslims after 30 of their own got killed. I guess the extremism in christianity is equal to islam now.

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

Let's be honest, the best you can expect is a few Christian leaders to speak out saying these actions are not what God wants

No, 99% of christians would say that it was wrong and would be arresting them if it were in their own country. That wasnt even over something stupid like a cartoon, muslims killed 30 of their own people so they retaliated.

So that's okay then, vigilantes FTW!  And I suppose they were right to string people up the deep south of America without a trial too?  Really, the personal abuse rules of the forum are hard to follow sometimes with people posting insensitive shit like that. 

The divide and unwilling of both sides to look at their own part has left 10,000 dead in the last 7 years in Nigeria.  I challenge you to find one Nigerian Christian leader who has condemned the actions of the vigilantes with the vigour and strength of words which those actions deserve.

Oh, and you're closest starting point doesn't attribute the Muslim reactions to the cartoons as the original cause of the Church burnings in the north, but a domestic between 2 lovers which got a bit out of hand.  And you've gotta love the way he portrays the Christian population who perpertrated the massacre as peaceful people pushed too far, and stops at saying it's "regrettable" and not "abhorant" or "downright evil".

Your exaggerating what i say to try and make your point look better. A lot of the christians who did that are evil. Most christians would condemn it without being pressured. Maybe not the ones in nigeria but worldwide they would. I never said that a cartoon started it. I said they killed people because 30 of their people got killed. They didnt just start rioting and killing because of a cartoon.

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

some hypocracy

you know what your reply reminds me of? someone that didn't bother to click the url's to see the beatings and danish embassy bombings

here's the one that i forgot, it was still hidden on the task bar, as much as I hate wiki, this is a fairly benign article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_G … irector%29

plz note the part where he produced films critical of islam, plz note the part where he was mudered in amsterdam, quite violently, by a muslim, pissed off that van gogh's film "submission" and some other pieces portrayed muslims violently, van gogh has also been critical of jews, but has yet to be killed by one, certainly not shot and stabbed and left with two knives in his chest


I know what my first link contained, did you bother to read the rest before you started critiscizing the rest?

Last edited by kr@cker (2006-09-30 21:35:57)

Stingray24 wrote:

lowing wrote:

sniff* sniff*........Ahhhhh smells like someone is baking apologies and rationalizations and justifications for terrorists again..Try them with milk, maybe they will easier to swallow.

I agree, lowing.  I keep hearing the same thing echoing all across liberal posts and blogs everywhere.  If people hate our country so much, why bother living here?  Maybe they would be happier if they moved to the Middle East and held their your own sign right along with the jihadists chanting for death of the nuns, the Pope, and anyone else who dares insult their peaceful religion and is conveniently unarmed.

and there response would be.............well the Popes words were irresponsible, the peace loving Muslims had no choice but to gun down that nun.

ok, since everyone loves the guardian so much
http://arts.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0 … 14,00.html
some rushdie for those not familiar
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date … 542873.stm
another on van gogh
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3974179.stm
it is completely irresponsible for people to characterize european muslims as violent
(note the part "Triggered by the accidental death of two Muslim teenagers in Clichy-sous-Bois", no they were not shot, they ran from cops and got their dumbasses electrocuted, of course it's the cops' fault)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_civil … _in_France
i have no idea what "debka" is, but here you go
http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1107
this is the "voice of conservatism in europe", so their reports can't possibly be legitimate, but here
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/429

we'll just assume you already know about the london and spanish train and bus bombings, I know this started as "what did muslims do about cartoons", but the idea that they have never been violent in europe was also bandied about, perhaps I misunderstood what he was trying to get at the first time, but as you can see, muslim violence is real inside europe, and even if it weren't, the "they're not doing it here" argument is kinda ridiculous

kr@cker wrote:

ok, since everyone loves the guardian so much
http://arts.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0 … 14,00.html
some rushdie for those not familiar
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date … 542873.stm
another on van gogh
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3974179.stm
it is completely irresponsible for people to characterize european muslims as violent
(note the part "Triggered by the accidental death of two Muslim teenagers in Clichy-sous-Bois", no they were not shot, they ran from cops and got their dumbasses electrocuted, of course it's the cops' fault)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_civil … _in_France
i have no idea what "debka" is, but here you go
http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1107
this is the "voice of conservatism in europe", so their reports can't possibly be legitimate, but here
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/429

we'll just assume you already know about the london and spanish train and bus bombings, I know this started as "what did muslims do about cartoons", but the idea that they have never been violent in europe was also bandied about, perhaps I misunderstood what he was trying to get at the first time, but as you can see, muslim violence is real inside europe, and even if it weren't, the "they're not doing it here" argument is kinda ridiculous

Again, another full clip that misses the target.  We're supposed to be proving that the average Muslim in a fairly balanced Western society engages in religious violence and rioting.  By murder we are talking about the machete holding random mob killings of lot's of people, not shootings by extremist groups.  If we were, they're be plenty of examples of Catholic/Protestant violence in Europe which 'proves' the majority of Christians must be violent.
@guardian link: Extremists planned...
@van vogh: Radical Islamic did it (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainmen … 975211.stm)
@rushdie: So the Ayatolla issued a fatwa, and what?  Do you really think if the majority of Muslims in the UK or America where Rushdie lives cared he'd be alive?  And the order was made in Iran, and not a European country.
@french riots:  Were the original deaths Muslim?  Wasn't reported that way over here, probably because it didn't have the slightest bit of relevance.  (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4399070.stm).  Read the dispute page on that article you posted and hang your head in shame for attempting to use it as 'proof'.  The Union of French Islamic Organizations issued a fatwa on the rioting, and worked with the authorities to help calm things down.  The riots weren't about religion, and weren't just perpertrated solely by Muslims.  Your argument is basically the same as if I'd quoted the LA riots as proof that most Christians are violent at the drop of a hat because the majority of rioters were Christian.

lowing wrote:

Well someone tried to compare the KKK to main stream Christianity.......The KKK gets shut down at just about every rally they have, by far greater numbers of Christians that think they are nuts.

No, lowing.  The government is perfectly willing to give permits to the KKK to hold rallys, and provide protection to ensure that they last the duration.  And the police arrest and charge people for trying to disrupt them.  http://yorkdailyrecord.com/newsfull/ci_4314374

*click*  oops, looks like you are out of ammo.  I didn't ask for evidence of violence in Europe.  You posted a list of links in reply to a statement I made, as though they somehow contradict it.

Since you are accusing me of 'changing the rules' let's go full cycle and take it back the statement I made which you were trying to disprove, the statement which you posted the original list of URL in reply to:

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

starman7 wrote:

As for "Passion of the Christ", that specifically denigrated Jews, and Mel is an anti-Semite anyways.  I don't see how showing the head of Mohammed denigrates Islam.  And it's not like tens of thousands of Jews went, rioted, and burned Mel Gibson's house to the ground, unlike those precious Muslims who definitely didn't riot en-masse and attack embassies.

So here in the UK where we have a multicultural society, how much murder, arson and riots did the cartoons cause?  None.  A few nasty chants and slogans.  And condemnation from the bulk of the Muslim community against those who did use slogans a little over the line. 

Where you saw violence was in areas where serious problems already existed, problems which are still being ignored by certain people because it's easier to assign all blame to the religion of Islam itself.

Did you really think I wasn't aware of the relatively few terrorist/extremist actions which have occurred when I made the statement?  Don't forget that I've lived with terrorism all my life in one form or another, but I don't blame the majority of Christians for the IRA campaigns.  My argument that the neither the religion nor the bulk of it's followers are to blame still stands, and that the bulk of Muslims, particularly in the UK and around Europe, are no more predisposed to violence than any other normal balanced member of society.

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

kr@cker wrote:

ok, since everyone loves the guardian so much
http://arts.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0 … 14,00.html
some rushdie for those not familiar
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date … 542873.stm
another on van gogh
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3974179.stm
it is completely irresponsible for people to characterize european muslims as violent
(note the part "Triggered by the accidental death of two Muslim teenagers in Clichy-sous-Bois", no they were not shot, they ran from cops and got their dumbasses electrocuted, of course it's the cops' fault)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_civil … _in_France
i have no idea what "debka" is, but here you go
http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1107
this is the "voice of conservatism in europe", so their reports can't possibly be legitimate, but here
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/429

we'll just assume you already know about the london and spanish train and bus bombings, I know this started as "what did muslims do about cartoons", but the idea that they have never been violent in europe was also bandied about, perhaps I misunderstood what he was trying to get at the first time, but as you can see, muslim violence is real inside europe, and even if it weren't, the "they're not doing it here" argument is kinda ridiculous

Again, another full clip that misses the target.  We're supposed to be proving that the average Muslim in a fairly balanced Western society engages in religious violence and rioting.  By murder we are talking about the machete holding random mob killings of lot's of people, not shootings by extremist groups.  If we were, they're be plenty of examples of Catholic/Protestant violence in Europe which 'proves' the majority of Christians must be violent.
@guardian link: Extremists planned...
@van vogh: Radical Islamic did it (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainmen … 975211.stm)
@rushdie: So the Ayatolla issued a fatwa, and what?  Do you really think if the majority of Muslims in the UK or America where Rushdie lives cared he'd be alive?  And the order was made in Iran, and not a European country.
@french riots:  Were the original deaths Muslim?  Wasn't reported that way over here, probably because it didn't have the slightest bit of relevance.  (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4399070.stm).  Read the dispute page on that article you posted and hang your head in shame for attempting to use it as 'proof'.  The Union of French Islamic Organizations issued a fatwa on the rioting, and worked with the authorities to help calm things down.  The riots weren't about religion, and weren't just perpertrated solely by Muslims.  Your argument is basically the same as if I'd quoted the LA riots as proof that most Christians are violent at the drop of a hat because the majority of rioters were Christian.

lowing wrote:

Well someone tried to compare the KKK to main stream Christianity.......The KKK gets shut down at just about every rally they have, by far greater numbers of Christians that think they are nuts.

No, lowing.  The government is perfectly willing to give permits to the KKK to hold rallys, and provide protection to ensure that they last the duration.  And the police arrest and charge people for trying to disrupt them.  http://yorkdailyrecord.com/newsfull/ci_4314374

I didn't say the KKK got shut down by the GOVT. They still have the right of free speach. I said they get shut down by the COUNTER protesters that dilute the KKK rallies rendering them ineffective. The GOVT. should be willing to let the KKK hold their rallies and offer protection for them to do so. NOt because the GOVT. agrees with them, but because the GOVT> is obligated to protect its citizens. What a wonderful country we live in.

ATG wrote:

The government is morally, but not legally obligated to protect its citizens.

The supreme court has ruled as much.

\


Yeah well, that is true isn't it??

Hellfire(Fish) wrote:

I just have to ask, have any of the multitude of you commenting on muslims taken a chance to read the Quran?
For that matter, how many peaceful, nice muslims read the Quran and follow it?
Just some things to think about.

The Quran is irrelevent.

IF they are following it, it must be combated. IF it is NOT being followed then then what difference does it make what it says? Their actions still must be combated.