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2006-10-03 06:53:25
HornyToady
Member
+3|6939|Wisconsin, USA
Lazzars...good question...the most simple answer I can give is that Iraquis have a resource that we want very badly...that is oil...now, many will say that this is a more complicated issue (because of geopolitical jockeying) but the root cause is indeed, oil...look at the genocide in Darfur, Sudan; and as atrocious as it may seem to the entire world...including the US....we, as Americans wont do anything about it other than using the UN quite simply because we dant really have anything we want in that great of quantity...that we can't get anywhere else...IMHO...and I'm an American.

Now maybe, you Euros dont know this but up until 2004 (it was enacted in the Clinton years), we had the Brady Bill, that outlawed the selling of assault-type weapons....and the bill limited the amt. of ammunition and size of clips and magazines and such....I have no opinion on this because even though I do bear arms personally...including 2 handguns, I have no need for and AR-15 or AK-47...nor do I need more than 10 rounds per mag for my 9mm handgun....I say moderation is the key here and some compromise...instead of constant extremism for both sides that has been going on for quite some time....well anywho, the Brady Bill was never extended. Crime with the weapons the Bill was intended for never saw increase or decline as a result of that Bill expiring...these are the facts and have no opinion on one way or the other cuz I down want or need assault rifles....once again moderation is the key...sry if that last passage was a bit incoherent.

I can understand your curiousness when it comes to Americas love with guns...this is a cultural difference...one that will be hard to bridge with you guys....I can explain away but maybe youll get it and maybe you wont...

It's like taking Guinness away from the Irish....or disbanding the English royal family...or outlawing the (my favorite) Scottish egg...it isn't going to happen...

So, the only thing we can do is compromise and find some middle moderate ground to move on.
2006-10-03 06:54:48
bob_6012
Resident M-14 fanatic
+59|6883|Lancaster Ohio, USA
Ok...so you're proposing I can only hunt deer with a .22? Pardon me for being blunt here...BUT ARE YOU RETARDED? Obviously you have never hunted a deer. Leaving the public with .22's is about the stupidest god-damn idea I've ever heard. It sucks that guns get stolen and used in crimes but shit happens. The reason they get stolen is because the bastard who commits the crime in the end can't get the gun in the first place that's why he has to steal it. Every time I see a thread saying that we need to get rid of guns or ban certain one's it both pisses me off and makes me laugh. There will never be a time in America where the governing authorities ban firearms. If they do there will be a massive uprising by the people to take back our country. I have a firearms collection going and I sure as hell will not give it up...EVER!!! It upsets me that people kill innocents but everyone seems to blame someone else about what happened and never the person that commits the crime, and if a child gets a hold of a firearm the bleeding heart liberals and anti-gun people jump to try and pass laws banning stuff. I always ask myself when this happens why don't they just look at the parents? If you're child can get to a weapon in your home, and you keep that weapon loaded then you  need to be held accountable. I keep all of my guns under lock and key at all times and store my ammunition separately, it's called responsible gun ownership, I practice it, it's a shame that not everyone does it too.

Edit: Grammar

Last edited by bob_6012 (2006-10-03 06:57:56)

2006-10-03 06:56:03
Colfax
PR Only
+70|6872|United States - Illinois
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15111438/
"10 myths about school shootings"

Last edited by Colfax (2006-10-03 06:56:20)

2006-10-03 06:56:25
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|6930|New York

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

..before America gets a hold of its Victorian gun laws and stop making ridiculous excuses for their need (like "we need them in case we need to overthrow our government, it's in the constitution")

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5400570.stm

This is the 3rd school shooting in A WEEK!  I can remember at least 4 of these horrific events in the last ten years and that's just the ones I can recall without searching the archives.  What gets me is when Al Qaeda kill 3000 Americans, their reaction is to go invading countries in response for revenge and yet when children are being killed every year by crazed maniacs who have easy access to firearms nothing is done.

Of course if guns were banned or restricted in the US, those gun-toting red necks would whine about how their rights are being taken away.  I'd like to see them raise that argument with the parents of any child who has been slaughtered in their school.  What about their rights?????
Dude get real. It has nothing to do with guns or the laws. It has to do with Nut cases like the idiot who did the shooting. do you Really think Anyone Anywhere in the world Couldnt get a gun if they really want one? Cmon wake up. Mentally Ill people kill Inocent people. They just choose to use the easiest TOOL to do the job.
2006-10-03 07:00:13
Jinto-sk
Laid Back Yorkshireman
+183|6819|Scarborough Yorkshire England
Here is a thread with 14 pages arguing guns and America

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=30478

Last edited by Jinto-sk (2006-10-03 07:22:44)

2006-10-03 07:09:26
Jinto-sk
Laid Back Yorkshireman
+183|6819|Scarborough Yorkshire England

bob_6012 wrote:

It upsets me that people kill innocents but everyone seems to blame someone else about what happened and never the person that commits the crime, and if a child gets a hold of a firearm the bleeding heart liberals and anti-gun people jump to try and pass laws banning stuff. I always ask myself when this happens why don't they just look at the parents? If you're child can get to a weapon in your home, and you keep that weapon loaded then you  need to be held accountable. I keep all of my guns under lock and key at all times and store my ammunition separately, it's called responsible gun ownership, I practice it, it's a shame that not everyone does it too.

Edit: Grammar
Nice Jack Johnson lyrics about passing the blame

And I would turn on the TV, but it's so embarrassing,
To see all the other people, I don't know what they mean.
And it was magic at first when they spoke without sound,
But now this world is gonna hurt.
You'd better turn that thing down.
Turn it around.

"Well, it wasn't me," says the boy with the gun,
"Sure I pulled the trigger, but it needed to be done,
Because life's been killing me ever since it begun.
You can't blame me, 'cuz I’m too young."

"You can't blame me; sure the killer was my son,
But I didn't teach him to pull the trigger of the gun.
It's the killing on this TV screen.
You can't blame me; it's those images he's seen."

"Well, you can't blame me," says the media man,
"Well I wasn't the one who came up with the plan.
And I just point my camera what the people want to see.
Man, it's a two-way mirror and you can't blame me."

"You can't blame me," says the singer of the song
Or the maker of the movie which he bases life on.
"It's only entertainment and as anyone can see,
Its smoke machines and make up man, you can't fool me."

It was you, it was me, it was every man.
We've all got the blood on our hands.
We only receive what we demand,
And if we want hell, then hell's what we'll have.

And I would turn on the TV, but it's so embarrassing.
To see all the other people, don't even know what they mean
And it was magic at first, but let everyone down,
And now this world's gonna hurt.
You'd better turn it around.
Turn it around.
2006-10-03 07:13:00
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7000|PNW

Snipedya14 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

TeK||drake666 wrote:

what i want to say is that guns became normal in the US damn you can buy it in a sport-store... its to easy to get one...
After a background check and all that. Rifles and shotguns are easier to get, but it seems as if more crime is committed with handguns than larger firearms.
You dont need a backround check in several states in the country. You can go to a gun show, buy a handgun, not even be carded, and carry it away. No wait period, no check. I own guns do not get me wrong, but c'mon.
I should've added "for the most part." Leave anything out here and people will poke holes in ya.

[edit]I remember there being a motion for a 3-day waiting period on gun show purchases six or seven years ago(?). It didn't pass, though I thought it should've been a bit longer, actually. I don't know much about gun shows' internal operations, but it occurs to me that it wouldn't kill 'em to go along with minor waiting period legislation, just to make it fair on gun shops.[/edit]

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-10-03 07:18:12)

2006-10-03 07:14:23
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|7057
Ok, I'll alow you to splatter bits of deer around the woods with a .50 cal bolt action rifle, any arguements about banning automatic and semi-automatic weaponry?

Oh and the US has successfully banned fully automatic weapons, so why not extend it's firearms restrictions?

<[onex wrote:

>Headstone]
Dude get real. It has nothing to do with guns or the laws. It has to do with Nut cases like the idiot who did the shooting. do you Really think Anyone Anywhere in the world Couldnt get a gun if they really want one? Cmon wake up. Mentally Ill people kill Inocent people. They just choose to use the easiest TOOL to do the job.
Banning guns makes it MASSIVELY harder for criminals to get their hands on them. At least in the UK we figured out after a couple of massacres that banning the guns helps stop this, and it did.

If guns aren't the reason that the US has a massive homicide rate then what is?
The UK has huge gang problems, racism and immigration issues, crazy media etc.
2006-10-03 07:16:08
bob_6012
Resident M-14 fanatic
+59|6883|Lancaster Ohio, USA
What? I wasn't trying to quote some song there Jinto-sk. I was just saying we need to hold people responsible that's all. If it's a kid lock the kid away and his parents too. That's all. Oh and to .:XDR:.PureFodder, I wasn't trying to say that one needs to hunt with a .50, come on that's just stupid, let's use some common sense here. You need more than a .22 to kill a deer, Personally I would use a .308, but it depends on the distance I'm shooting and the local laws, some states don't allow you to use semi-auto rifles, while others do. And there is no need to extend the legislation to ban semi-autos.

Edit: More thoughts.

Last edited by bob_6012 (2006-10-03 07:21:01)

2006-10-03 07:19:50
Jinto-sk
Laid Back Yorkshireman
+183|6819|Scarborough Yorkshire England

bob_6012 wrote:

What? I wasn't trying to quote some song there Jinto-sk. I was just saying we need to hold people responsible that's all. If it's a kid lock the kid away and his parents too. That's all.
I know dude just thought that was an apt song to post at that point you said "everyone seems to blame someone else", wasn't a reflection on your post or anything just a song about passing the blame. Note the penultimate verse.

Last edited by Jinto-sk (2006-10-03 07:21:27)

2006-10-03 07:20:43
bob_6012
Resident M-14 fanatic
+59|6883|Lancaster Ohio, USA
Ok buddy, I was a little confused...go me for bringing up a song without trying too!!! lol
2006-10-03 07:23:14
soadlink
Member
+2|6949

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

..before America gets a hold of its Victorian gun laws and stop making ridiculous excuses for their need (like "we need them in case we need to overthrow our government, it's in the constitution")
If a plane crashes because of a pilot error, do you blame the Boeing corporation?
2006-10-03 07:28:00
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6829|132 and Bush

It is crazy, but lets at least get the kids buried before you try to compare shit with Iraq. Ridiculous..
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2006-10-03 07:34:09
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7000|PNW

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

The UK has huge gang problems, racism and immigration issues, crazy media etc.
...and bends over backwards to kiss Muslim ass. No offense to the religion, but the UK does.
2006-10-03 07:46:08
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|7057

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

The UK has huge gang problems, racism and immigration issues, crazy media etc.
...and bends over backwards to kiss Muslim ass. No offense to the religion, but the UK does.
No, the UK has more than it's share of right-wing anti-Mislim crazys, but we do have roughly 6 times the percentage of Muslims in the UK so we get to see much more of the good side of the religion.
2006-10-03 07:51:13
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7000|PNW

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

The UK has huge gang problems, racism and immigration issues, crazy media etc.
...and bends over backwards to kiss Muslim ass. No offense to the religion, but the UK does.
No, the UK has more than it's share of right-wing anti-Mislim crazys, but we do have roughly 6 times the percentage of Muslims in the UK so we get to see much more of the good side of the religion.
https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/unnamednewbie13/Flag-St-George-LH.gif
2006-10-03 07:55:51
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|7057

soadlink wrote:

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

..before America gets a hold of its Victorian gun laws and stop making ridiculous excuses for their need (like "we need them in case we need to overthrow our government, it's in the constitution")
If a plane crashes because of a pilot error, do you blame the Boeing corporation?
If someone buys a vehicle with cruise control then gets up to make a sandwich, assuming it will drive itself, do you blame the company that made the vehicle? Yes you did.
If someone buys a hot drink then spills it on themselves do you blame the company that made the drink? You betcha.
If someone throws a drink at someone in a resteraunt then falls over the puddle that they just made 30 seconds later is it the resteraunts fault. Oh yeah.
If someone falls over their own child in a shop is it the shops fault. Take a guess.
2006-10-03 07:59:50
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7000|PNW

Screw all that. Where's compound bow legislation? I bought a 70# Martin, got it cranked to 80, and had 30 arrows fletched without so much as a second glance.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-10-03 08:00:50)

2006-10-03 08:02:37
BADHEAD
Member
+6|6726|Oblivion

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

Of course if guns were banned or restricted in the US, those gun-toting red necks would whine about how their rights are being taken away.  I'd like to see them raise that argument with the parents of any child who has been slaughtered in their school.  What about their rights?????
auto crashes — kill an estimated 1.2 million people worldwide each year, and injure about forty times this number.

We should ban cars too no one can hanldle them!

Your a subject of the some royal crown. I am citzen of the United States of America. I as such posses the..
"The maintenance of the right to bear arms is a most essential one to every free people and should not be whittled down by technical constructions."

It is most terrible that sick Mofos kill children but this is no excuse to take away my rights.

Maybe if you had rights you would be more worried about losing them.

Last edited by BADHEAD (2006-10-03 08:03:38)

2006-10-03 08:11:22
Jenkinsbball
Banned
+149|6776|USA bitches!
I just got married last Saturday and I heard about the Amish school shooting yesterday. The first thing that came to mind was, "I'm home schooling my kids". I don't trust other parents. It's obvious we're all losing our ability to control our children. Something needs to happen. I think if we poured more money into the schooling system and actually educated them well when they're young, stuff like this wouldn't happen as much. I don't think we can stop if all, because they're always be that one kid that gets bullied and goes home and finds his dad's gun and kills the kid the next day.

The arguement on video games as the initiators of such behavior will never end either. When, in reality, it's the parents fault for not paying enough attention to their kids and raising a freaking psycho.
2006-10-03 08:13:03
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6829|132 and Bush

Congrats^^
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2006-10-03 08:14:26
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|7057

BADHEAD wrote:

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

Of course if guns were banned or restricted in the US, those gun-toting red necks would whine about how their rights are being taken away.  I'd like to see them raise that argument with the parents of any child who has been slaughtered in their school.  What about their rights?????
auto crashes — kill an estimated 1.2 million people worldwide each year, and injure about forty times this number.

We should ban cars too no one can hanldle them!

Your a subject of the some royal crown. I am citzen of the United States of America. I as such posses the..
"The maintenance of the right to bear arms is a most essential one to every free people and should not be whittled down by technical constructions."

It is most terrible that sick Mofos kill children but this is no excuse to take away my rights.

Maybe if you had rights you would be more worried about losing them.
a) What Militia are you part of?

b) If we look at the amount of time cars are used vs. the amout of deaths and accidents and compair that to the amount of time guns are used we'd begin to find out why that arguement is wrong.

c) There are more and more laws brought out aimed at making cars safer, why not do the same with the guns?
2006-10-03 08:15:13
Jenkinsbball
Banned
+149|6776|USA bitches!

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

soadlink wrote:

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

..before America gets a hold of its Victorian gun laws and stop making ridiculous excuses for their need (like "we need them in case we need to overthrow our government, it's in the constitution")
If a plane crashes because of a pilot error, do you blame the Boeing corporation?
If someone buys a vehicle with cruise control then gets up to make a sandwich, assuming it will drive itself, do you blame the company that made the vehicle? Yes you did.
If someone buys a hot drink then spills it on themselves do you blame the company that made the drink? You betcha.
If someone throws a drink at someone in a resteraunt then falls over the puddle that they just made 30 seconds later is it the resteraunts fault. Oh yeah.
If someone falls over their own child in a shop is it the shops fault. Take a guess.
Those are sad examples, because they're all true and it proves that people don't take responsibility for their own stupid mistakes.
2006-10-03 08:25:51
BADHEAD
Member
+6|6726|Oblivion
"Militia" itself referred to a concept of a universally armed people, not to any specifically organized unit. When the framers referred to the equivalent of our National Guard, they uniformly used the term "select militia" and distinguished this from "militia".

Your betting that 50 million people are injured by gun accidents a year??
Rofl.

The year 2000 KIDS and cars and guns
Total
All Automobile 43,000
All Firearms    600

Ages 0-24
All Automobile 12900
All Firearms    230


Cars are far more dangeous to kids than guns.
Cars are safe guns are safe its once you put people  in the picture  well then you have chaos.

Last edited by BADHEAD (2006-10-03 08:31:00)

2006-10-03 08:36:35
tiptopT
Member
+72|6810|Scotland's Capital

T0rr3nt wrote:

a) you are from england.
b) stfu.
c) it IS in our constutition, therefore you can not change it(unless amended), get over it.
d) im not a redneck, nor am i all for guns. im just a bit more educated i suppose, than a snobby englishmen who thinks he knows everything.
Once again say anything even slightly negative against the US and someone gets on their high horse, grow up!

a) and?
b) or else? (face stab thru internet - Oosha BOY!!)
c) hahaha "you cannot change it" oh but you can...well there you go!
d) you say your a bit more educated, then ruin it with your next sentence, bravo!

You know terrorists would need to attack you anymore, soon enough you'll all kill yourselves!

 

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