Pages: 1 2

 

2006-09-24 08:16:32
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7004|SE London

Reciprocity wrote:

sorry kids, but your spankin' new 7950 will not be compatible with dx10.  It's a whole new ball game.  New operating strategy, new everything.  I think I read somewhere that the only card that are ever partially compatible with dx10 are the ATI 1900 series, and that has something to do with the Playstation 3 contract.  The companies want you to keep dropping $600 on the latest and greatest dx9 stuff right up until dx10 is released.  Then you can spend another $600-$1400 on the super-magnum-quad SLIxAwsome cards.
ATI don't do the graphics for the PS3, nvidia do. The RSX is essentially a 7900GT.

I don't know where you get this stuff from, the 7900 will be able to handle DX10, as will the 7600, through Direct3D9Ex (which isn't true Direct3D10, but allows content to be run on existing hardware) - it'll run slower though.

It's all to do with capability bits. Old versions of DirectX used capability bits to distinguish between what sorts of features were supported by the graphics hardware. New DirectX 10 is different and won't make this distinction, either a card has all the features and is DX10 compatible or not. A software mechanism (Direct3D9Ex) is in place to allow those with older hardware to run Direct3D 10 content though.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2006-09-24 08:20:04)

2006-09-24 10:50:42
ToiletTrooper
Member
+25|7198|WC
Not out.. Hmm.. Okay, I guess the dx10 must be in Q1 2007 on internet. Crysis will release then, so...
2006-09-24 13:48:33
Maj.Do
Member
+85|7175|good old CA

Bertster7 wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

sorry kids, but your spankin' new 7950 will not be compatible with dx10.  It's a whole new ball game.  New operating strategy, new everything.  I think I read somewhere that the only card that are ever partially compatible with dx10 are the ATI 1900 series, and that has something to do with the Playstation 3 contract.  The companies want you to keep dropping $600 on the latest and greatest dx9 stuff right up until dx10 is released.  Then you can spend another $600-$1400 on the super-magnum-quad SLIxAwsome cards.
ATI don't do the graphics for the PS3, nvidia do. The RSX is essentially a 7900GT.

I don't know where you get this stuff from, the 7900 will be able to handle DX10, as will the 7600, through Direct3D9Ex (which isn't true Direct3D10, but allows content to be run on existing hardware) - it'll run slower though.

It's all to do with capability bits. Old versions of DirectX used capability bits to distinguish between what sorts of features were supported by the graphics hardware. New DirectX 10 is different and won't make this distinction, either a card has all the features and is DX10 compatible or not. A software mechanism (Direct3D9Ex) is in place to allow those with older hardware to run Direct3D 10 content though.
not sure if im right but direct3d9ex is supposed to have similar features as dx10 but is not completely the same
2006-09-24 15:38:03
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7113|Tampa Bay Florida
I read somewhere that the 7950 cards will be able to run DX10 cards just fine, as my fellow liberal buddy Bertser explained.  Personally I'm not going to sit around for another 4 months just so I will be able to have a few small changes by buying an extra expensive DX10 card the moment it hits the shelves

Besides, there aren't many new PC games comin out next year which appeal to me.  Everyones been talking about Crisis, and I'm not sure why.  Good graphics, what else?  You can sneak around in a jungle in plenty of other games.

Last edited by Spearhead (2006-09-24 15:38:59)

2006-09-24 15:42:36
aardfrith
Δ > x > ¥
+145|7215

ToiletTrooper wrote:

Not out.. Hmm.. Okay, I guess the dx10 must be in Q1 2007 on internet. Crysis will release then, so...
It will?  I guess you've never heard of a game being delayed at all, then?
2006-09-24 16:03:46
Maj.Do
Member
+85|7175|good old CA

Spearhead wrote:

I read somewhere that the 7950 cards will be able to run DX10 cards just fine, as my fellow liberal buddy Bertser explained.  Personally I'm not going to sit around for another 4 months just so I will be able to have a few small changes by buying an extra expensive DX10 card the moment it hits the shelves

Besides, there aren't many new PC games comin out next year which appeal to me.  Everyones been talking about Crisis, and I'm not sure why.  Good graphics, what else?  You can sneak around in a jungle in plenty of other games.
crysis has the amazing graphics and its made by crytek.  Also 7950 cards running a dx10 card?  i think you got something wrong there
2006-09-24 16:14:52
]GoD[JiN
Member
+4|6983
NV DO NOT make a card that can do DX10 ATI as far as i know do there 19+ cards can be programed to do DX10 with a driver update

did i make it up ??

""No. Directx10 hardware is not currently available from any vendor including non-NVIDIA GPU's. Windows Vista will be the first OS that includes support for DirectX 10 and will enable the next generation of gaming and graphics design. NVIDIA designs several GPU's which are Microsoft Windows Vista Ready.  These GPU's will fully work with Microsoft's DirectX 9 3d desktop environment.  Future software which takes advantage of hardware features which DirectX 10 exposes will revert to DirectX 9 format with all current Windows Vista Ready graphics cards.  For a full list of NVIDIA Windows Vista Ready GPU's, please visit the following URL""

taken from the NV offail site "  http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvid … _topview=1 ""  oooow big link ;p
2006-09-24 16:19:49
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7189|Cambridge (UK)

Psycho wrote:

So much misinformation. How bout some of you "experts" provide some links supporting your statements?

First off according to this MS document (http://download.microsoft.com/download/ … tX10FS.doc) DirectX9 will be supported in Vista (DirectX 10 will not be in XP, nor is it backward compatible). As game developers start coding their games for DirectX10 they will almost asuredly include DirectX9 support as well. If they don't they are shooting themselves in the foot as they will lose potential sales - they have no direct incentive to get their customers to upgrade their video cards. it will most likely be a couple of years until games start becoming Vista only (with a few exceptions I'm sure).

If you have a DirectX 9 card, then installing Vista (which is the only way to get DirectX10) will not give you any DirectX10 capabilities. You would have to run any games in DirectX9 mode - if it supports it - however, as I stated above, it should be supported for some time.
He's right you know.
2006-09-24 16:21:39
]GoD[JiN
Member
+4|6983
list of "windows vista ready v-cards" BUT running on dx9 as explaned above

NVIDIA desktop GPUs
"Windows Vista Ready:"

GeForce 7950 GPUs
GeForce 7900 GPUs
GeForce 7800 GPUs
GeForce 7600 GPUs
GeForce 7300 GPUs
GeForce 7100 GPUs
GeForce 6800 GPUs
GeForce 6600 GPUs
GeForce 6500 GPUs
GeForce 6200 GPUs
GeForce 6100/6150 GPUs
GeForce FX 5900 GPUs
GeForce FX 5700 GPUs
GeForce FX 5600 GPUs
GeForce FX 5500 GPUs
GeForce FX 5200 GPUs
GeForce PCX GPUs

NVIDIA Quadro NVS 440 GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro NVS 285 GPUs
  NVIDIA notebook GPUs
"Windows Vista Ready:"

GeForce Go 7800 GPUs
GeForce Go 7600 GPUs
GeForce Go 7400 GPUs
GeForce Go 7300 GPUs
GeForce Go 7200 GPUs
GeForce Go 6800 GPUs
GeForce Go 6600 GPUs
GeForce Go 6400 GPUs
GeForce Go 6200 GPUs
GeForce Go 6100 GPUs
GeForce FX Go5700 GPUs
GeForce FX Go5650 GPUs
GeForce FX Go5600 GPUs
GeForce FX Go5200 GPUs
GeForce FX Go5100 GPUs

NVIDIA Quadro NVS 300M GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro NVS 120M GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro NVS 110M GPUs
  NVIDIA workstation GPUs
"Windows Vista Ready:"

NVIDIA Quadro FX 5500 GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 5500 SDI GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 X2 GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 SDI GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4400 GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4000 SDI GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4000 GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3500 GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3450 GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3400 GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3000G GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3000 GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1500 GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400 GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1300 GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1100 GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1000 GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 560 GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 550 GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 540 GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 350 GPUs

NVIDIA Quadro FX 2500M GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1500M GPUs
NVIDIA Quadro FX 350M GPUs
 



NVIDIA beta drivers for Windows Vista RC1

Drivers for NVIDIA nForce4 and later MCPs are available for download now. These drivers are only compatible with Windows Vista RC1 build 5600.16384.060829-2230 and higher, and should not be used with other versions of Windows Vista.
GeForce/Quadro driver Windows Vista x86
GeForce/Quadro driver Windows Vista x64



if your card is older then the above listed your fooked ;p
friend of mine is running vista says its as sweet as ......new sound coding every thing ita not just a tarted up XP pro
2006-09-24 16:43:39
Maj.Do
Member
+85|7175|good old CA

]GoD[JiN wrote:

NV DO NOT make a card that can do DX10 ATI as far as i know do there 19+ cards can be programed to do DX10 with a driver update

did i make it up ??

""No. Directx10 hardware is not currently available from any vendor including non-NVIDIA GPU's. Windows Vista will be the first OS that includes support for DirectX 10 and will enable the next generation of gaming and graphics design. NVIDIA designs several GPU's which are Microsoft Windows Vista Ready.  These GPU's will fully work with Microsoft's DirectX 9 3d desktop environment.  Future software which takes advantage of hardware features which DirectX 10 exposes will revert to DirectX 9 format with all current Windows Vista Ready graphics cards.  For a full list of NVIDIA Windows Vista Ready GPU's, please visit the following URL""

taken from the NV offail site "  http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvid … _topview=1 ""  oooow big link ;p
uhh i dont think a driver update will allow the 19 series to render Dx10 stuff.  As for the Nvidia thing, you sure the guy doesnt mean that the game developers will also support Dx9 for vista games?
2006-09-24 16:53:47
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7189|Cambridge (UK)

Maj.Do wrote:

]GoD[JiN wrote:

NV DO NOT make a card that can do DX10 ATI as far as i know do there 19+ cards can be programed to do DX10 with a driver update

did i make it up ??

""No. Directx10 hardware is not currently available from any vendor including non-NVIDIA GPU's. Windows Vista will be the first OS that includes support for DirectX 10 and will enable the next generation of gaming and graphics design. NVIDIA designs several GPU's which are Microsoft Windows Vista Ready.  These GPU's will fully work with Microsoft's DirectX 9 3d desktop environment.  Future software which takes advantage of hardware features which DirectX 10 exposes will revert to DirectX 9 format with all current Windows Vista Ready graphics cards.  For a full list of NVIDIA Windows Vista Ready GPU's, please visit the following URL""

taken from the NV offail site "  http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvid … _topview=1 ""  oooow big link ;p
uhh i dont think a driver update will allow the 19 series to render Dx10 stuff.  As for the Nvidia thing, you sure the guy doesnt mean that the game developers will also support Dx9 for vista games?
To me it seems to be saying that DX10 will be backwards compatible and will use the DX9 feature set when it detects a DX9 card.

But I can also see how one could read it as saying games developers will support DX9...
2006-09-24 16:54:43
]GoD[JiN
Member
+4|6983
yeh sry i cant find any thing atm to back up the ATI updating to DX10 i,ll look in to that

as for the vista its like when DX9 came out DX9 games still worked on DX8 cards .....but playing a full DX10 game is allmost like playing a flash movie every thing on the screen can be shot or moved tree,s, grass,bushes every thing ......so i dont think full on DX10 games will run on DX9 BUt "vista" its self is DX10 for more interactive desk top etc i think in DX9 it will just be flat and lifeless like XP pro is now ;p
2006-09-24 17:11:46
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|7125|New York
Its going to be like useing a MX400 with BF2 when even backwards coded games come out that are coded in DX10 as the main codeing. So Kiddies that are thinking of dropping that coin on that new vidio card that the Vid card companies are trying to clear out before next month, Id wait. The first cards should show up in november.

IF you REALLY need to upgrade right this minute, drop as little as you can to get by, and Save save save. You wont be dissapointed. Think of the new cards comeing out Like this. Going from an Old IBM 66mhz Computer to useing a new A64 4000+. Its going to be That drastic with vista and DirectX10 paired with a new DirectX10 card.

Now dont forget Kiddies, Vista REQUIRES Pci-Express. So be ready.
2006-09-24 17:22:04
]GoD[JiN
Member
+4|6983
yeh you seen the new ATi specs ;p

The specs of R600 were (at least until now): 65nm technology, 64 Shader pipelines (V4+Scalar), 32 TMU's, 32ROPs, 128 Shader Operations per Cycle, 800 Mhz Core, 103.4 billion shader ops/sec, 512 GFLOPs for the shaders, 2 billion triangles/sec, 25.6 Gpixels/Gtexels/sec, 256-bit, 512MB, 1.8 Ghz GDDR4, 57.6 Gb/sec bandwidth, WGF 2.0 unified Shader.

put that up aganced X1950 XT-X with only 48 Shader pipelines and 8 vertex shader processors woot



but

ATI's R600 was supposed to be ready this year, but it seems that some problems were discovered, and the chip won't be ready before nVidia's G80 (although G80 will be delayed as well), and that could mean the latter will have more than 3 months lead start (and that will greatly surpass the most powerful ATI card available, the R580+ Radeon
2006-09-24 17:25:06
ﻍﻏﺱﺖﻇﻸﮚ
Banned
+69|6924

Bertster7 wrote:

ATI don't do the graphics for the PS3, nvidia do. The RSX is essentially a 7900GT.

I don't know where you get this stuff from, the 7900 will be able to handle DX10, as will the 7600, through Direct3D9Ex (which isn't true Direct3D10, but allows content to be run on existing hardware) - it'll run slower though.

It's all to do with capability bits. Old versions of DirectX used capability bits to distinguish between what sorts of features were supported by the graphics hardware. New DirectX 10 is different and won't make this distinction, either a card has all the features and is DX10 compatible or not. A software mechanism (Direct3D9Ex) is in place to allow those with older hardware to run Direct3D 10 content though.
Yeah none of this is true..

Firstly there are NO cards that support dx10 yet.. you can allways download the latest directx versions but the hardware on your card will not support shaders and other core features that come out with the card you bought. The lines that seperated dx9 support from 8 are clearly drawn .. shaders lighting etc.. Games will not use dx10 exclusive features till the hardware catches up.

Also the PS3 is not a 7900 its a watered down 7800.. the 79 is touted as much more powerfull than the ps3 gpu.
2006-09-24 18:38:15
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|7125|New York

Bertster7 wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

sorry kids, but your spankin' new 7950 will not be compatible with dx10.  It's a whole new ball game.  New operating strategy, new everything.  I think I read somewhere that the only card that are ever partially compatible with dx10 are the ATI 1900 series, and that has something to do with the Playstation 3 contract.  The companies want you to keep dropping $600 on the latest and greatest dx9 stuff right up until dx10 is released.  Then you can spend another $600-$1400 on the super-magnum-quad SLIxAwsome cards.
ATI don't do the graphics for the PS3, nvidia do. The RSX is essentially a 7900GT.

I don't know where you get this stuff from, the 7900 will be able to handle DX10, as will the 7600, through Direct3D9Ex (which isn't true Direct3D10, but allows content to be run on existing hardware) - it'll run slower though.

It's all to do with capability bits. Old versions of DirectX used capability bits to distinguish between what sorts of features were supported by the graphics hardware. New DirectX 10 is different and won't make this distinction, either a card has all the features and is DX10 compatible or not. A software mechanism (Direct3D9Ex) is in place to allow those with older hardware to run Direct3D 10 content though.
WRONG! The 7900 or NO other card out will do DirectX 10. Vista will REVERT to directX9.0c or 9.0L. Depending on your vidio card. You will not be running DirectX10 period. Most ALL the newer PCI-Express vidio cards WILL run vista though in one form or another. That is True. If you would like proof i could furnish it.

Hope this works

http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvid … _topview=1

Last edited by <[onex]>Headstone (2006-09-24 18:42:16)

2006-09-24 18:46:50
Jbrar
rawr
+86|6965|Winterpeg, Canada
From reading this I guess my 9550 won't handle vista. And about directX, my card is a 7 or 8, and after updating to 9 (because of BF2), my dx7 games lag like shit, but it's still runnin dx7 in a sense.
2006-09-24 18:48:55
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|7125|New York
The PS3 is going to be an expensive paperweight. with no game support and a MAJOR shortage. With the games the Xbox360 is releasing this season, youd be crazy not to pick one up. Sony shot itself in the foot with first, there Price, there supply, there Blue Ray(costs too much for developers and its a sony only Tech) So, In short, It might be the end of the PS as we once knew it. Drop this one and its Bye Bye $600. Prolly wont survive  setting it on the TV stand LOL. Fragile isnt the word. Looks Great Graphics wise, But Not worth the Coin compared to what you can get out of a pure gameing computer or a 360.
2006-09-24 18:52:30
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|7125|New York

Jbrar wrote:

From reading this I guess my 9550 won't handle vista. And about directX, my card is a 7 or 8, and after updating to 9 (because of BF2), my dx7 games lag like shit, but it's still runnin dx7 in a sense.
Dude dont beat yourself up over the DX7 deal. Its not just the DX9 update. Its a driver issue. Certain ATI drivers are giving Older games FITS or they Just wont run at all. Im having the same problem with Old games. The new drivers, coupled with The High end vidio card i have, dont play any of my old games. MOH is dead. But With the new games comeing, Im not gonna miss MOH, COD,UO, nor COD2 at all.
2006-09-25 05:58:03
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7004|SE London

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

sorry kids, but your spankin' new 7950 will not be compatible with dx10.  It's a whole new ball game.  New operating strategy, new everything.  I think I read somewhere that the only card that are ever partially compatible with dx10 are the ATI 1900 series, and that has something to do with the Playstation 3 contract.  The companies want you to keep dropping $600 on the latest and greatest dx9 stuff right up until dx10 is released.  Then you can spend another $600-$1400 on the super-magnum-quad SLIxAwsome cards.
ATI don't do the graphics for the PS3, nvidia do. The RSX is essentially a 7900GT.

I don't know where you get this stuff from, the 7900 will be able to handle DX10, as will the 7600, through Direct3D9Ex (which isn't true Direct3D10, but allows content to be run on existing hardware) - it'll run slower though.

It's all to do with capability bits. Old versions of DirectX used capability bits to distinguish between what sorts of features were supported by the graphics hardware. New DirectX 10 is different and won't make this distinction, either a card has all the features and is DX10 compatible or not. A software mechanism (Direct3D9Ex) is in place to allow those with older hardware to run Direct3D 10 content though.
WRONG! The 7900 or NO other card out will do DirectX 10. Vista will REVERT to directX9.0c or 9.0L. Depending on your vidio card. You will not be running DirectX10 period. Most ALL the newer PCI-Express vidio cards WILL run vista though in one form or another. That is True. If you would like proof i could furnish it.

Hope this works

http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvid … _topview=1
Not wrong. Cards that are 'Vista Ready' will be able to run the desktop graphics for Vista. Direct3D 10 games will be playable through Direct3D9Ex, though with limited features and less speed. While not true DirectX 10, it is a means to run DirectX 10 content on DX9 hardware. This does require 2 seperate render paths to be coded into the software, which will probably be phased out later, but for Crysis, which is what everyone (me included) seems desperate to play, there will be support for current hardware through Direct3D9Ex.

I was wrong about the RSX though, as has been pointed out. It is a striped down N70 not N71, still same architecture, just different fabrication process (110nm instead of 90nm).

Last edited by Bertster7 (2006-09-25 05:59:15)

 

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