Pages: 1 … 5 6 7 8 9

Topic closed

2006-09-21 15:17:00
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6742|Northern California

Vilham wrote:

DesertFox423 wrote:

Spark wrote:

Must every debate on religion turn into this? A quagmire of opposing sides, each calling the other's beliefs baseless and stupid.
Apparently, yes. Everyone who believes is called something along the lines of...oh I don't know...a weak-minded, pathetic, little shit" by those who insult over the internet. I have already shared my belief that there is no evidence to support or refute the Bible.

Yet I do believe some of these "I read the Bible" people are odd. I bet some of you read it with a closed mind or in the view that it is a collection of stories. Yet both the parables told by Jesus and his actions are in there. Even so though, I am a Catholic and never read the whole thing either; never even read a whole book in it with the exception of the Gospels.

But you don't even have to be a Christian to get the message of the Bible. It has some good lessons in there. I'm sure those who "read it" would tell you that it does, in fact, promote positive actions. Nobody is being told to kill, steal, or practice infidelity. You don't want to be the person who strikes back for nothing (kind of like result of a TK punish) with the "turn the other cheek" mentality. You have the parable of the mob about to stone the woman where Jesus said, "Let whichever of you is without sin cast the first stone." It promotes peace, understanding, and forgiveness in short.

Also, for the individuals saying, "It's years old." The prostitution industry is older than the stories of Jesus, but you don't have any problem with that just because of the age, do you? Possible moral objection but not age.
As you said... you havent read much of the bible, the bible has repeated comments about killing and killing for god is good, the bible promotes violence and killing whenever it suits it. As i have said before orgainised religion is just an excuse for some guys to hold power over others.
Would you mind quoting passages that teach that killing for God is good?  how about finding ANY passages where God has commanded someone to kill.

What's so baffling about all you is the venom with which you tear apart religious people as you ignorantly talk shit about something you know nothing about.  Earlier, I explained how one could easily prove the bible's existence...but as with other comments I've made that are too much of a challenge for you losers, you just pass it off, find something I've said, blown it out of context and proscribed me a lunatic, brainwashed, unstable, weakling or whatever!  it's laughable how you pick and chose what to argue as if it has any bearing on the full context of something i've written.  But whatever, it's to be expected when posting sacred, personal things on a message board filled with all kinds of disgruntled youngsters and anal old gamers who wouldn't know real life if it was in front of them.
2006-09-21 15:25:54
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7008|Argentina

IRONCHEF wrote:

Vilham wrote:

DesertFox423 wrote:


Apparently, yes. Everyone who believes is called something along the lines of...oh I don't know...a weak-minded, pathetic, little shit" by those who insult over the internet. I have already shared my belief that there is no evidence to support or refute the Bible.

Yet I do believe some of these "I read the Bible" people are odd. I bet some of you read it with a closed mind or in the view that it is a collection of stories. Yet both the parables told by Jesus and his actions are in there. Even so though, I am a Catholic and never read the whole thing either; never even read a whole book in it with the exception of the Gospels.

But you don't even have to be a Christian to get the message of the Bible. It has some good lessons in there. I'm sure those who "read it" would tell you that it does, in fact, promote positive actions. Nobody is being told to kill, steal, or practice infidelity. You don't want to be the person who strikes back for nothing (kind of like result of a TK punish) with the "turn the other cheek" mentality. You have the parable of the mob about to stone the woman where Jesus said, "Let whichever of you is without sin cast the first stone." It promotes peace, understanding, and forgiveness in short.

Also, for the individuals saying, "It's years old." The prostitution industry is older than the stories of Jesus, but you don't have any problem with that just because of the age, do you? Possible moral objection but not age.
As you said... you havent read much of the bible, the bible has repeated comments about killing and killing for god is good, the bible promotes violence and killing whenever it suits it. As i have said before orgainised religion is just an excuse for some guys to hold power over others.
Would you mind quoting passages that teach that killing for God is good?  how about finding ANY passages where God has commanded someone to kill.

What's so baffling about all you is the venom with which you tear apart religious people as you ignorantly talk shit about something you know nothing about.  Earlier, I explained how one could easily prove the bible's existence...but as with other comments I've made that are too much of a challenge for you losers, you just pass it off, find something I've said, blown it out of context and proscribed me a lunatic, brainwashed, unstable, weakling or whatever!  it's laughable how you pick and chose what to argue as if it has any bearing on the full context of something i've written.  But whatever, it's to be expected when posting sacred, personal things on a message board filled with all kinds of disgruntled youngsters and anal old gamers who wouldn't know real life if it was in front of them.
Nobody is judging you for being religious, I judge you for questioning proven facts like the Evolution Theory (don't come with it's a theory).  You claim for respect for your beliefs but you don't respect others for choosing not to endorse any religion.
2006-09-21 15:32:51
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6742|Northern California

sergeriver wrote:

Nobody is judging you for being religious, I judge you for questioning proven facts like the Evolution Theory (don't come with it's a theory).  You claim for respect for your beliefs but you don't respect others for choosing not to endorse any religion.
I disrespected someone for not choosing a religion or endorse any religion?  And yes, i've been so judged in many ways for being religious.

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2006-09-21 15:33:19)

2006-09-21 15:45:02
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7008|Argentina
This is not in the Bible.

Man: "God, why you make woman so beautiful?"
God: "So you would love her."
Man: "But God, why you make her so dumb?"
God: "So she would love you!"
2006-09-21 15:54:21
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6742|Northern California

topal63 wrote:

You obviously have not read the Bible... you claim objective reason, and present the thing you decry; an opinion (and an ignorant one at that).

And you have no idea what your talking about (the same as every Jew, Muslim and Christian I have ever spoken to).

You want violence! That can be found in abundance within the Bible, either direct or indirectly suggested, both at the hands of (God's) Yahweh's followers and by Yahweh himself.

It is a MONSTER-SIZED fact; that EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW; how could you NOT(!) know - that a major portion of the Bible is devoted to the Israelite conquest of Canaan, and to the UTTER DESTRUCTION of the inhabitants of the land, as a COMMANDMENT DIRECT FROM GOD.

If you want to argue with someone who has studied the Bible in detail for 10's of years (me); I am game... let's go...

Also I am prepared to judge you fairly... you're ignorant; and you know you are.
Yes, I'm fully aware that Joshua led the Israelites into Canaan and they took over the land slaughtering those settled there.  God commanded them to take possession of that "choice" land and it would be the land of their inheritence.  But as I asked above, I'd love to see someone quote where the Bible teaches that we should kill? 

And yes, I've read the bible in English (kjv only) thrice, portuguese once, and studied it thoroughly for 16 years.  I'd be happy to argue biblical knowledge with you even that defeats it's own purpose since the bible does have many interpretations, translations, and obvious taint from unseen forces hoping to create further divisiveness.

And no, not everyone knows about the setttling of Canaan after they wer ein the desert for 40 years.  The movies only depict moses dieing (or being translated) and Joshua taking the lead.  And obviously to many people who ignorantly post in this thread, that "story" is probably false as is most of the bible..yadda yadda.

k, go arrogant fool.  your move.
2006-09-21 15:59:06
Ikarti
Banned - for ever.
+231|6960|Wilmington, DE, US
So, if you think the Bible's full of shit and/or don't believe in god, you're wrong.
If you've studied the bible and drawn different interpretations from it, you're wrong.

Damned if you do...
2006-09-21 16:01:40
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6742|Northern California
Hey! Stick to your Vietnam/Iraq thread buddy!  ..because yes, Iraq IS the new vietnam in EVERY way! kthanksbye.
2006-09-21 16:05:00
Ikarti
Banned - for ever.
+231|6960|Wilmington, DE, US
Your behavior's really getting more and more erratic, what gives? Did you not notice the earlier posts I've made here?
2006-09-21 16:09:11
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6742|Northern California
Chattap or I'll sanction your ass!
2006-09-21 16:15:06
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6742|Northern California

topal63 wrote:

You said: "Would you mind quoting passages that teach that killing for God is good?  how about finding ANY passages where God has commanded someone to kill."

And I siad: "..a major portion of the Bible is devoted to such"... would you like me to cut and paste some Biblical violence and God Kill people commandments...

Ok here's some:

Leviticus 20:9  For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

Kill you're own son if he disrespects you - this is a direct and moronic backward ancient tribalistic commandment.

Leviticus 20:13  If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Kill homos

Leviticus 20:27  A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.

Kill witches, of course you have to be stupid enough to believe in them in the first place...


And yes I am arragant and can back up my stance... I know you can't.
Excellent, way to quote the laws.  And being a biblical scholar you are, surely you know that Jesus came to "fulfill the law" and do away with old things.  Know why the Israelites were given that lesser law?  Because they were wicked enough (hence the 40 years of wandering to kill off the present generation) to not know how to internalize their sacrifices and teachings.  All they understood were telestial laws pertaining to their physical lives.  But upon the removal of Mosaic law, Jesus instituted the higher law where instead of paying or atoning for sins physically, it was done with a broken heart and contrite spirit.  So while God made it known that in Mosaic law, the physical body was expendable (which is true today if you realize that this life is only a test or proving ground before moving on to bigger and better things), Christian law teaches peace, forgiveness, self purity, humility, and faith.  So in the end, the BIBLE does NOT condone killing of any kind..

Or did you not realize that in your 10's of years of biblical study?  Yeah, sucks when you bluff and lose like a fool, doesn't it?

Oh yeah, i'm still waiting for where it's a blessing to kill people???  Or are you stil searching?

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2006-09-21 16:15:45)

2006-09-21 16:20:55
=JoD=Corithus
Member
+30|6809
There is no way to escape that fact that organized religion is responsibe for many terrible and awful things, however, some truely beautiful and exquisite things have come about thanks to one person or anothers faith.  Personally, I believe these books are just that: books.  Reasonably well told works of fiction.  Do I think less of people who believe otherwise? No.  Do I hate people that disagree with my perception? No.  Believe in and worship what ever you want, just don't force you're views into acceptance by others.  Belief in god, or the lack thereof, dosen't make someone ignorant or foolish, it just means that they percieve things in a different way than you may.
2006-09-21 16:26:59
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6987|Salt Lake City

IRONCHEF wrote:

topal63 wrote:

You said: "Would you mind quoting passages that teach that killing for God is good?  how about finding ANY passages where God has commanded someone to kill."

And I siad: "..a major portion of the Bible is devoted to such"... would you like me to cut and paste some Biblical violence and God Kill people commandments...

Ok here's some:

Leviticus 20:9  For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

Kill you're own son if he disrespects you - this is a direct and moronic backward ancient tribalistic commandment.

Leviticus 20:13  If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Kill homos

Leviticus 20:27  A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.

Kill witches, of course you have to be stupid enough to believe in them in the first place...


And yes I am arragant and can back up my stance... I know you can't.
Excellent, way to quote the laws.  And being a biblical scholar you are, surely you know that Jesus came to "fulfill the law" and do away with old things.  Know why the Israelites were given that lesser law?  Because they were wicked enough (hence the 40 years of wandering to kill off the present generation) to not know how to internalize their sacrifices and teachings.  All they understood were telestial laws pertaining to their physical lives.  But upon the removal of Mosaic law, Jesus instituted the higher law where instead of paying or atoning for sins physically, it was done with a broken heart and contrite spirit.  So while God made it known that in Mosaic law, the physical body was expendable (which is true today if you realize that this life is only a test or proving ground before moving on to bigger and better things), Christian law teaches peace, forgiveness, self purity, humility, and faith.  So in the end, the BIBLE does NOT condone killing of any kind..

Or did you not realize that in your 10's of years of biblical study?  Yeah, sucks when you bluff and lose like a fool, doesn't it?

Oh yeah, i'm still waiting for where it's a blessing to kill people???  Or are you stil searching?
Uhhh, the point was not what the new testament teaches, the point was that the Bible does in fact contain a lot about violence and killing.  So the question then becomes, why is the old testament even part of the Bible?
2006-09-21 16:29:57
Ikarti
Banned - for ever.
+231|6960|Wilmington, DE, US
Quick question. If someone claimed to be the second coming of Jesus, who would you be to deny him?
2006-09-21 16:30:07
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6742|Northern California

=JoD=Corithus wrote:

There is no way to escape that fact that organized religion is responsibe for many terrible and awful things, however, some truely beautiful and exquisite things have come about thanks to one person or anothers faith.  Personally, I believe these books are just that: books.  Reasonably well told works of fiction.  Do I think less of people who believe otherwise? No.  Do I hate people that disagree with my perception? No.  Believe in and worship what ever you want, just don't force you're views into acceptance by others.  Belief in god, or the lack thereof, dosen't make someone ignorant or foolish, it just means that they percieve things in a different way than you may.
You call the bible a work of fiction.  but then you talk of respecting people's beliefs.  Is it not obvious that people who read the bible know it's not fiction?  and that by calling it so is quite offensive?  i'm not geting militant on you like some muslims would do if you threw a quoran in the toilet, but it is offensive to some to call it fiction..especially since it testifies of things that are true, teaches true principles that improves life, and it has prophecies in it that have ALL come true..except the ones for the last days which are not all complete yet for obvious reasons.  just the aspect of the bible having prophetic statements in it that occurred means it's not fiction.
2006-09-21 16:32:53
topal63
. . .
+533|6969

IRONCHEF wrote:

=JoD=Corithus wrote:

There is no way to escape that fact that organized religion is responsibe for many terrible and awful things, however, some truely beautiful and exquisite things have come about thanks to one person or anothers faith.  Personally, I believe these books are just that: books.  Reasonably well told works of fiction.  Do I think less of people who believe otherwise? No.  Do I hate people that disagree with my perception? No.  Believe in and worship what ever you want, just don't force you're views into acceptance by others.  Belief in god, or the lack thereof, dosen't make someone ignorant or foolish, it just means that they percieve things in a different way than you may.
You call the bible a work of fiction.  but then you talk of respecting people's beliefs.  Is it not obvious that people who read the bible know it's not fiction?  and that by calling it so is quite offensive?  i'm not geting militant on you like some muslims would do if you threw a quoran in the toilet, but it is offensive to some to call it fiction..especially since it testifies of things that are true, teaches true principles that improves life, and it has prophecies in it that have ALL come true..except the ones for the last days which are not all complete yet for obvious reasons.  just the aspect of the bible having prophetic statements in it that occurred means it's not fiction.
I've read it is a mixture of myth and history. Myth means not true in a literal sense, and yet not untrue in a symbolic sense.

And yes some of it is known FICTION. Proven to be false and in error.

Last edited by topal63 (2006-09-21 16:35:09)

2006-09-21 16:35:15
=JoD=Corithus
Member
+30|6809
If you look carefully, I said that I BELIEVE,therefore stating my opinion, that those works are fictional, in no way did I claim otherwise, as I wasn't exactly alive 2,000 years ago, and as such, can't really speak about the accuracy of what has been written one way or the other.
2006-09-21 16:42:57
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6742|Northern California

topal63 wrote:

By the way - Jesus isn't even a real Jewish name dufus, and the concept that Jesus (the unhistorical man) fulfilled the Mosaic law is Pauline doctrine - not words and sayings ascribed to the Jesus name...

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fullfilled.

5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

See its is both fulfilled and none of it goes away at the same time, the Bible is any moronic perspective you want it to be.
Ok, now you're arguing with me as if I made up the name Jesus?  Did I claim anything about his name? 

The matthew scriptures evade you...  but then, that's to be understood when someone reading it for spite tries to understand things. 

But to humor you, I'll explain what those verses mean:

It was asked of Jesus what is the greatest commandment.  It was asked of him as if to trick him and make him recall a mosaic law like "do not kill, or honor the sabbath, etc".  But since he came to FULFILL (or complete) the law (of Moses), he said Love your self, your neighbor and your God....for such is the law and the prophets.  As you can see, by being fulfilled, the 10 commands moses gave, are still in force, but now they are simplified and presented as two commandments (yes, he gave the two greatest instead of the asked one).

10 commandments
1) no other gods
2) no idolatry
3) gods name in vain
4) sabbath
5) parents
6) kill
7) sexual sin
8) steal
9) false testimony/lie
10) covet


Ok, here's what jesus did...

Commandments 1-4 focus on GOD, therefore the latter of the two commandments applies

Commandments 5-10 focus on your neighbor and self, the first great commandment.


But I'm sure you also knew this too.  Here's another way Jesus fulfilled things...to look upon a woman to lust after her hath already committed adultry in his heart (7th commandment).  So in other words, mosaic law said if you fornicate, yer toast.  But Jesus "fulfilled" it, thus modifying it while yet keeping it and said not to lust after women.

Also, I don't see where Jesus advocates killing your children if they offend you or killing others to take cities.  Hmmm..must have been another example of "fulfilling" the law you don't get.  Oh I remember, it's that pesky little sermon onthe mount where he said to forgive, turn the cheek, give your coat, etc...

Oh yeah, I'm still waiting for where it was cool to kill?  Give it to me please, I"m waiting and I've got 30 minutes before I go home from work...
2006-09-21 16:46:50
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6742|Northern California

=JoD=Corithus wrote:

If you look carefully, I said that I BELIEVE,therefore stating my opinion, that those works are fictional, in no way did I claim otherwise, as I wasn't exactly alive 2,000 years ago, and as such, can't really speak about the accuracy of what has been written one way or the other.
My apologies.  And to clear up any doubt you have, you could pick up a copy of the bible and read the gospels.  that's the first 4 books of the new testament and it is a somewhat accurate history of the life and mission of jesus written after his ministry ended.  Each of those 4 books were written nearly 2000 years ago independently of each other, yet there's many, many identical references made to the life of Jesus, his death, burial, and resurrection.  One of those 4 writers wasn't even an apostle/disciple of christ, but a historian who converted to christianity.
2006-09-21 16:48:13
valakivi
Wish i had under 100 ping
+7|6709|Lima, PERU
agree, religion is bad very very bad.
2006-09-21 16:48:39
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7008|Argentina

IRONCHEF wrote:

topal63 wrote:

By the way - Jesus isn't even a real Jewish name dufus, and the concept that Jesus (the unhistorical man) fulfilled the Mosaic law is Pauline doctrine - not words and sayings ascribed to the Jesus name...

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fullfilled.

5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

See its is both fulfilled and none of it goes away at the same time, the Bible is any moronic perspective you want it to be.
Ok, now you're arguing with me as if I made up the name Jesus?  Did I claim anything about his name? 

The matthew scriptures evade you...  but then, that's to be understood when someone reading it for spite tries to understand things. 

But to humor you, I'll explain what those verses mean:

It was asked of Jesus what is the greatest commandment.  It was asked of him as if to trick him and make him recall a mosaic law like "do not kill, or honor the sabbath, etc".  But since he came to FULFILL (or complete) the law (of Moses), he said Love your self, your neighbor and your God....for such is the law and the prophets.  As you can see, by being fulfilled, the 10 commands moses gave, are still in force, but now they are simplified and presented as two commandments (yes, he gave the two greatest instead of the asked one).

10 commandments
1) no other gods
2) no idolatry
3) gods name in vain
4) sabbath
5) parents
6) kill
7) sexual sin
8) steal
9) false testimony/lie
10) covet


Ok, here's what jesus did...

Commandments 1-4 focus on GOD, therefore the latter of the two commandments applies

Commandments 5-10 focus on your neighbor and self, the first great commandment.


But I'm sure you also knew this too.  Here's another way Jesus fulfilled things...to look upon a woman to lust after her hath already committed adultry in his heart (7th commandment).  So in other words, mosaic law said if you fornicate, yer toast.  But Jesus "fulfilled" it, thus modifying it while yet keeping it and said not to lust after women.

Also, I don't see where Jesus advocates killing your children if they offend you or killing others to take cities.  Hmmm..must have been another example of "fulfilling" the law you don't get.  Oh I remember, it's that pesky little sermon onthe mount where he said to forgive, turn the cheek, give your coat, etc...

Oh yeah, I'm still waiting for where it was cool to kill?  Give it to me please, I"m waiting and I've got 30 minutes before I go home from work...
What, and where is the part of Adam fucking Eve, you are missing the good part.  It's all about porn in that book.  Then people don't understand why priests are fucking kids in Church, they read that book and get horney.
2006-09-21 16:51:33
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6742|Northern California

sergeriver wrote:

What, and where is the part of Adam fucking Eve, you are missing the good part.  It's all about porn in that book.  Then people don't understand why priests are fucking kids in Church, they read that book and get horney.
Such an ass.  And you're getting it wrong anyway.  The porn in the bible (again, the bible was compiled "as" the bible by constantine..a corrupt, wicked pope long ago) is the songs of solomon...."her breasts were like pomagranets.." etc.
2006-09-21 16:52:35
a_n00bt00b
Member
+0|6907
Why don't you all just shut the f*** up and stop worrying about this? Any person can chose what ever they want too do with their lives, if they want to believe in god, who are you too stop them? I'm not religious at all, but that doesn't mean I want religion outlawed. It's a basic human right to believe in what ever you want too, god or not. These laws you put forth sound a lot like Totalitarianism, coming from people who ID as Democrats and the like, I can understand that. Just let everyone get on with their lives without you interfering.
2006-09-21 16:53:44
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6742|Northern California
uh, this is a forum where we talk about topics.  this is the topic.  how bout you stfu and go play your nintendo?
2006-09-21 16:54:51
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7008|Argentina
Can I play PS2?
2006-09-21 17:06:17
LaidBackNinja
Pony Slaystation
+343|6960|Charlie One Alpha

sergeriver wrote:

Can I play PS2?
No.

EDIT:
Oh, and by the way, since nobody tried to refute my argument about 3 pages back I assume you all agree that my point is indisputable and therefore the discussion is settled? Good.

Last edited by LaidBackNinja (2006-09-21 17:09:24)

"If you want a vision of the future, imagine SecuROM slapping your face with its dick -- forever." -George Orwell

Topic closed

Pages: 1 … 5 6 7 8 9

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2025 Jeff Minard