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JaMDuDe wrote:

[UTQ]_Ausch88 wrote:

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actually they have... Israel was owned by Jews in 701 BC and way before that it wasnt till later that they were pushed out by other nations. Go read a book plz rather than wasting our time.
------------------------------

so by you thinking,lets give back america to the natives

the jews lost the land.. they lost the war.. they don't belong there today

Im going to take a wild guess. Asuch is a Canadian "moderate" muslim who gets his truth twisted by the propaganda and brainwashing done by terrorists. Either that or hes surrounded by those kind of people. Am i right?

wrong

yes im canadian but im white, christian (not really religious) and i don't know any terrorists personally

i just put myself in their situation.. imagine if a bunch of jews (or any other people) decided that their chosen land was in your country...  dont know about you but i think i would fight back..

=CA=lamcrmbem wrote:

[UTQ]_Ausch88 wrote:

----------------------
actually they have... Israel was owned by Jews in 701 BC and way before that it wasnt till later that they were pushed out by other nations. Go read a book plz rather than wasting our time.
------------------------------

so by you thinking,lets give back america to the natives

the jews lost the land.. they lost the war.. they don't belong there today

Amazing logic....let's disect.

"so by you thinking,lets give back america to the natives"

You use my argument from a previous post (go look if you don't believe me)

"the jews lost the land.. they lost the war.. they don't belong there today"

So....what War was it they lost?
The 1948 war for independence? Opponents: Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon.  NOPE
The 1956 Suez War? Opponent: Egypt.  NOPE
The 1967 6-Day war?  Opponents:  Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, and Syria (Round 2).  NOPE
The 1968-1970 War of Attrition?  Opponent: Egypt (round 2).  NOPE
The 1973 Yom Kippur War?  Opponents:  coalition of Arab nations led by Egypt and Syria.  NOPE

Um...i'm waiting for you to list a war modern day israel lost.

hmm

ISRAEL existed thousands of years ago.. the jews got kicked out and the world gave them back their land in 1948

i don't know who kicked them out but im pretty sure that they lost if they were kicked out

=CA=lamcrmbem wrote:

[UTQ]_Ausch88 wrote:

=CA=lamcrmbem wrote:

Again, go do some research.  Like on the "6 Day Way" and hugely outnumbered Isreali force obliterated a middle-eastern coalition.

You actually believe the propaganda the Hezbollah trotted out after Isreal backed-off?  Are you kidding?
The hezbollah leader proclaimed victory because he was the first middle-eastern force to ACTUALLY LAST A WEEK in combat with Isreal.....A WHOLE WEEK!  beats the 6 day war....now that's what I call victory.

Actually, Isreal was trying to do what most modern military do, trying to do surgical strikes and minimize as much collateral damage as possible.  They withdrew not because of losses, but because of international pressure.  Believe me, Isreal is second only to the US for military ability (they're just smaller).

Oh, and that crack about US military gear.  Nice try.  They do have some stuff, and it was Purchased....not given.  But there tank is the Markava.  Not US. 

DO SOME RESEARCH before you open your mouth.

"Better to remain silent and have people think you are ignorant, than to open you mouth and remove all doubt"

it was purchased with american money

sound like your heart is with ISRAEL.. thinking that ISRAEL is second to the US military just because they are smaller..   

the truth is: 

1- your POS country exist today because the world decided after WW2 to give the poor jews a free land

2- your POS country still exist today because AMERICA is infested by people who put the safety of ISRAEL before the well being of AMERICANS

3- think what you want, you went to war against a bunch of guerrillas and the goal was to retrieve your soldiers..  you FAILED.. you LOST.. your soldiers are still in lebanon.

4- (cut and pasted) Even excluding all of these extra costs, America’s $84.8 billion in aid to Israel from fiscal years 1949 through 1998, and the interest the U.S. paid to borrow this money, has cost U.S. taxpayers $134.8 billion, not adjusted for inflation. Or, put another way, the nearly $14,630 every one of 5.8 million Israelis received from the U.S. government by Oct. 31, 1997 has cost American taxpayers $23,240 per Israeli.

5- if you think that the AMERICANS should continue to pay for a bunch of ungrateful bastards who spy on them (pollard), who attack their ship (USS Liberty) and who bomb their embassy (google the lavon affair) then you are not american.. you are a traitor to your country

Ok, I'm gonna be real calm right now.  I am a US military Veteran.  I was an Army Officer and West Point Graduate.  Don't mean to throw that out there to brag, but I take HUGE offense to your statement number 5.  We're having a good intellectual argument about differing points of view.  You took it personal. 

HOW DARE YOU question my loyalty to my country?  I spent a year away from my family on the streets of Baghdad for my country.  I had friends killed and mained next to me for my country.

Let's return this thread to a good intellectual discussion and save the personal attacks.  The worst I have said to you is to do some research and not throw out illogical, empassioned arguments.  I fought and served for you to have the right to your opinion and the freedon to express it.

no personnal attack here but if you are a veteran, you should remember the USS Liberty.. if you think that it was an accident well..

and for the IRAQ war, you did your job.. and i respect that but if you think that you were defending your country by removing saddam you are wrong.. Without saddam, IRAN is even stronger..  saddam was your best friend in the middle east.. a secular leader who hated islamists..  but i think that rumsfeld was thinking more about the safety of his mother land ISRAEL when he decided to bomb IRAQ instead of chasing ben laden in Afghanistan.

open your eyes.. soon you guys will be invading IRAN.. all that for the safety of one country.. ISRAEL

=CA=lamcrmbem wrote:

Um...i'm waiting for you to list a war modern day israel lost.[/quote wrote:

hmm

ISRAEL existed thousands of years ago.. the jews got kicked out and the world gave them back their land in 1948

i don't know who kicked them out but im pretty sure that they lost if they were kicked out

See my last line...I said modern day Isreal.  We can't argue about Israel being declared a country.  Its over an done.  If anything it was like tossing Israel into a Last Man Standing Cage match with Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and Iraq as the other guys.  Isreal beat them all and now has the belt.  As much as you want, you can't ignore the fact that modern day Israel has maintained their power through consistently defending themselves.

DOnt forget they did all this while stealing land. for example:
Taking 26% of the Mandate territories, when the "Green line " was instituted.
9.5 percent which was annexed when "the barrier" was built.

Vilham wrote:

[UTQ]_Ausch88 wrote:

----------------------
actually they have... Israel was owned by Jews in 701 BC and way before that it wasnt till later that they were pushed out by other nations. Go read a book plz rather than wasting our time.
------------------------------

so by you thinking,lets give back america to the natives

the jews lost the land.. they lost the war.. they don't belong there today

Well by that thinking, fuck everyone England should have just enslaved the whole fucking world and never given anyone their freedom back, ENGLAND OWNED Palestine, if we gave it to the Jews that was our choice by your own logic, therefore they do belong there! GO READ BEFORE POSTING PLZ!

yes it was your choice

but stop crying if the palestinians are resisting.. and if the surrounding arabs are with them..  there is no terrorists, only freedom fighters

at least they are fighting for a cause.. not stealing money from poor people

like Larry Silvestein (dual citizen of ISRAEl and the USA) who made a lot of money out of september 11

open your eyes

Vilham wrote:

[UTQ]_Ausch88 wrote:

Vilham wrote:

Well by that thinking, fuck everyone England should have just enslaved the whole fucking world and never given anyone their freedom back, ENGLAND OWNED Palestine, if we gave it to the Jews that was our choice by your own logic, therefore they do belong there! GO READ BEFORE POSTING PLZ!

yes it was your choice

but stop crying if the palestinians are resisting.. and if the surrounding arabs are with them..  there is no terrorists, only freedom fighters

at least they are fighting for a cause.. not stealing money from poor people

like Larry Silvestein (dual citizen of ISRAEl and the USA) who made a lot of money out of september 11

open your eyes

im not complaining about them resisting, i find it funny, they simply have no chance. I dont support either tbh i dont care, they are both wrong they both deserve the misery they cause each other.

i think we should cut all foreign aid to middle eastern countries including ISRAEL.. wait 2 years and deal with the winner

[UTQ]_Ausch88 wrote:

Vilham wrote:

[UTQ]_Ausch88 wrote:

----------------------
actually they have... Israel was owned by Jews in 701 BC and way before that it wasnt till later that they were pushed out by other nations. Go read a book plz rather than wasting our time.
------------------------------

so by you thinking,lets give back america to the natives

the jews lost the land.. they lost the war.. they don't belong there today

Well by that thinking, fuck everyone England should have just enslaved the whole fucking world and never given anyone their freedom back, ENGLAND OWNED Palestine, if we gave it to the Jews that was our choice by your own logic, therefore they do belong there! GO READ BEFORE POSTING PLZ!

yes it was your choice

but stop crying if the palestinians are resisting.. and if the surrounding arabs are with them..  there is no terrorists, only freedom fighters

at least they are fighting for a cause.. not stealing money from poor people

like Larry Silvestein (dual citizen of ISRAEl and the USA) who made a lot of money out of september 11

open your eyes

my freedom fighters and most other people's, like guy fawkes and george washington, didnt target cafes and buses full of college students

=CA=lamcrmbem wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:

=CA=lamcrmbem wrote:

See my last line...I said modern day Isreal.  We can't argue about Israel being declared a country.  Its over an done.  If anything it was like tossing Israel into a Last Man Standing Cage match with Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and Iraq as the other guys.  Isreal beat them all and now has the belt.  As much as you want, you can't ignore the fact that modern day Israel has maintained their power through consistently defending themselves.

DOnt forget they did all this while stealing land. for example:
Taking 26% of the Mandate territories, when the "Green line " was instituted.
9.5 percent which was annexed when "the barrier" was built.

See...Stealing Land implies that it was illegal.  Was it illegal for the US to take land during the Revolutionary War?  The victor taking land during a war is as old as war itself.  You can't "steal" land during a war.  You win it fair and square.  Using the term "steal" is just spin by the losers.

How the u.n said it should be after the British left:

http://www.morainevalley.edu/ctl/Middle … onPlan.jpg

How it is now:

http://z.about.com/d/geography/1/0/d/3/is-150.gif


What they did was illegal by UN law, they took the land after all the peace-treaties between surrounded countries were declared.
http://www.jatonyc.org/181.html

" Israel's occupation of Palestine is Illegal.

Security Council Resolution 242, Nov. 22, 1967

Calls for the withdrawal of Israeli forces from territories occupied in the war that year and "the acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every state in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force"
"

"Israel's settlements in Palestine are Illegal.
Security Council Resolution 446, March 22, 1979
"Determines that the policy and practices of Israel in establishing settlements in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967 have no legal validity and constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East."
"
"
UN General Assembly Resolution 181
"

While we are on this topic of resolutions:

Resolution 106: condemns Israel for Gaza raid.

Resolution 111: condemns Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people.

Resolution 127: recommends Israel suspend its no-man's zone' in Jerusalem.

Resolution 162: urges Israel to comply with UN decisions.

Resolution 171: determines flagrant violations by Israel in its attack on Syria.

Resolution 228: censures Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control.

Resolution 237: urges Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees.

Resolution 248: condemns Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan.

Resolution 250: calls on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem.

Resolution 251: deeply deplores Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250.

Resolution 252: declares invalid Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital.

Resolution 256: condemns Israeli raids on Jordan as flagrant violation.

Resolution 259: deplores Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation.

Resolution 262: condemns Israel for attack on Beirut airport.

Resolution 265: condemns Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan.

Resolution 267: censures Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem.

Resolution 270: condemns Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon.

Resolution 271: condemns Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem.

Resolution 279: demands withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon.

Resolution 280: condemns Israeli's attacks against Lebanon.

Resolution 285: demands immediate Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon.

Resolution 298: deplores Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem.

Resolution 313: demands that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon.

Resolution 316: condemns Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon.

Resolution 317: deplores Israel's refusal to release.

Resolution 332: condemns Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon.

Resolution 337: condemns Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty.

Resolution 347: condemns Israeli attacks on Lebanon.

Resolution 425: calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon.

Resolution 427: calls on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.

Resolution 444: deplores Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces.

Resolution 446: determines that Israeli settlements are a serious obstruction to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention

Resolution 450: calls on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon.

Resolution 452: calls on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories.

Resolution 465: deplores Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist its settlements program.

Resolution 467: strongly deplores Israel's military intervention in Lebanon.

Resolution 468: calls on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return.

Resolution 469: strongly deplores Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians.

Resolution 471: expresses deep concern at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Resolution 476: reiterates that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are null and void.

Resolution 478: censures (Israel) in the strongest terms for its claim to Jerusalem in its Basic Law.

Resolution 484: declares it imperative that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors.

Resolution 487: strongly condemns Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility.

Resolution 497: decides that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights

is null and void and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith.

Resolution 498: calls on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon.

Resolution 501: calls on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops.

Resolution 509: demands that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon.

Resolution 515: demands that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in.

Resolution 517: censures Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon.

Resolution 518: demands that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon.

Resolution 520: condemns Israel's attack into West Beirut.

Resolution 573: condemns Israel vigorously for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters.

Resolution 587: takes note of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw.

Resolution 592: strongly deplores the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops.

Resolution 605: strongly deplores Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians.

Resolution 607: calls on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Resolution 608: deeply regrets that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians.

Resolution 636: deeply regrets Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.

Resolution 641: deplores Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.

Resolution 672: condemns Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram Al-Sharif/Temple Mount.

Resolution 673: deplores Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations.

Resolution 681: deplores Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians.

Resolution 694: deplores Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.

Resolution 726: strongly condemns Israel's deportation of Palestinians.

Resolution 799: strongly condemns Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.


Please don't reply unless you have some feedback on the other points that i have made in previous posts.

Vilham wrote:

kr@cker wrote:

[UTQ]_Ausch88 wrote:

yes it was your choice

but stop crying if the palestinians are resisting.. and if the surrounding arabs are with them..  there is no terrorists, only freedom fighters

at least they are fighting for a cause.. not stealing money from poor people

like Larry Silvestein (dual citizen of ISRAEl and the USA) who made a lot of money out of september 11

open your eyes

my freedom fighters and most other people's, like guy fawkes and george washington, didnt target cafes and buses full of college students

exactly! How can those in palestine be considered Freedom fighters? All they do i cause opression in an otherwise free country (palestine).

Although guy fawkes example isnt a great one, he was a dupe to increase the kings popularity and keep him on the throne.

they are freedon fighters, lets take the example of Hezbullah, you consider them to be terriorst while i consider them to be freedon fighters.

While on the international scale only three countries view the whole Hezbollah as terrorist, and two which only consider "Hezbollah External Security Organization" to be terrorist.

APART of these five, they are not considered terrorist. But iam sure you would like to form your own opinion from what they tell you.

Now list the resolutions against the Middle-Eastern countries that attacked Israel. 

Israel has never been an offensive country....Always Defense.  However, they also don't believe in talking about things until they're blue in the face.  When you slap them, they Punch you.  when you suicide bomb, they bomb you with aircraft.  they believe in retaliation and escalation.  I personnaly have no problem with that.  Stop messing with Israel and that region becomes peaceful because the Israelis want peace and the radical islamics was Israel destroyed.

=CA=lamcrmbem wrote:

Now list the resolutions against the Middle-Eastern countries that attacked Israel. 

Israel has never been an offensive country....Always Defense.  However, they also don't believe in talking about things until they're blue in the face.  When you slap them, they Punch you.  when you suicide bomb, they bomb you with aircraft.  they believe in retaliation and escalation.  I personnaly have no problem with that.  Stop messing with Israel and that region becomes peaceful because the Israelis want peace and the radical islamics was Israel destroyed.

Lets not, you know why, i'll tell you:

Isreal are likely to be sitting on more nukes then uk:
   "The supposed number of stationary nuclear weapons in 2002 is 200 (compared with 190 in Great Britain)"
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel#Military)

Isreal has the 8th largest number of troops in the world.

Israel is 3rd in the "Combat power".

Source:
http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2004617.asp
The source does not look that good, but i know its right.

I was gone do a copy and paste job, but here some more: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Israe … e_Aid.html


Lets leave it at that, and please at least try to answer some of my previous posts.

Last edited by mafia996630 (2006-09-20 15:16:36)

Kingdom of Israel is already 3000+ years old, so deal with it!!!

Jerusalem was, does and will belong to Jews, so deal with it!!!

For all the land your eye can see to you (Abraham) will give it, and to your descendants for ever!!!The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine...

DEAL WITH IT!!!

=CA=lamcrmbem wrote:

Let's return this thread to a good intellectual discussion and save the personal attacks.  The worst I have said to you is to do some research and not throw out illogical, empassioned arguments.

If this doesn't happen the thread will be closed. I might also go back through the thread and determine if anyone has been breaching the Forum Rules.


You have been warned.





Mcminty.