However, the big difference here is that those people didn't die because of Irwins death. The 72,000 innocent people did die because of 9/11.usmarine2005 wrote:
That wasn't my point. You said "guess no one cares about the other people"............. I can say the same for everyone talking about Steve for over a week. People die everyday from horrible things.ghettoperson wrote:
I'm sorry, I must have missed the thousands of civilians killed as a result of Steve Irwin dying...usmarine2005 wrote:
Did you say that about all the Steve Irwin threads?
72,000 died because of 9/11? Wow...now I have seen everything.ghettoperson wrote:
However, the big difference here is that those people didn't die because of Irwins death. The 72,000 innocent people did die because of 9/11.usmarine2005 wrote:
That wasn't my point. You said "guess no one cares about the other people"............. I can say the same for everyone talking about Steve for over a week. People die everyday from horrible things.ghettoperson wrote:
I'm sorry, I must have missed the thousands of civilians killed as a result of Steve Irwin dying...
ghettoperson wrote:
Civilians killed due to the terrorist events of 9/11: 2,973
Estimaetd number of civilians killed worldwide since 9/11 as a result of the "War on Terror": 72,000
Number of detainees at Guantanamo Bay (held without haebus corpus): 455
Front page of the Independant today.
Guess no one cares about the other people...
EDIT: Full figures for anyone whose interested. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/pol … 466758.ece
9/11 Press For Truth - New Google Video, Watch it!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … +for+truth
I just watched it, VERY compelling. Produces a lot of news articles and TV news reports about the problems with the 9/11 commission, Pakastani links to 9/11 and the ISI. Amazing to see all the important articles and reports that were never picked up by the media.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … +for+truth
I just watched it, VERY compelling. Produces a lot of news articles and TV news reports about the problems with the 9/11 commission, Pakastani links to 9/11 and the ISI. Amazing to see all the important articles and reports that were never picked up by the media.
I was sick that day so I stayed home and saw it on TV.
I was 11 years old that day... (I know I am just a kid...)
Watching it made me sick.
I was 11 years old that day... (I know I am just a kid...)
Watching it made me sick.
Yes thank you. But I want to know where they got 72,000 from.ghettoperson wrote:
ghettoperson wrote:
Civilians killed due to the terrorist events of 9/11: 2,973
Estimaetd number of civilians killed worldwide since 9/11 as a result of the "War on Terror": 72,000
Number of detainees at Guantanamo Bay (held without haebus corpus): 455
Front page of the Independant today.
Guess no one cares about the other people...
EDIT: Full figures for anyone whose interested. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/pol … 466758.ece
lol.. thats just them saying estimated amount is 72k . A little evidence please.ghettoperson wrote:
EDIT: Full figures for anyone whose interested. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/pol … 466758.ece
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Do you have proof to suggest that they're wrong? If so, please pass your source along to them, I'm sure they'd be interested.
"Even your Republican grandpa from Texas will have doubts about 9/11 when he finishes it! "BiBi wrote:
9/11 Press For Truth - New Google Video, Watch it!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … +for+truth
I just watched it, VERY compelling. Produces a lot of news articles and TV news reports about the problems with the 9/11 commission, Pakastani links to 9/11 and the ISI. Amazing to see all the important articles and reports that were never picked up by the media.
No thanks, not gonna watch this rubbish.
Try this one http://lolloosechange.co.nr/usmarine2005 wrote:
"Even your Republican grandpa from Texas will have doubts about 9/11 when he finishes it! "BiBi wrote:
9/11 Press For Truth - New Google Video, Watch it!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … +for+truth
I just watched it, VERY compelling. Produces a lot of news articles and TV news reports about the problems with the 9/11 commission, Pakastani links to 9/11 and the ISI. Amazing to see all the important articles and reports that were never picked up by the media.
No thanks, not gonna watch this rubbish.
Make sure to read the subtitles.
Last edited by Kmarion (2006-09-11 10:49:13)
Xbone Stormsurgezz
No. They dont have proof it is correct.ghettoperson wrote:
Do you have proof to suggest that they're wrong? If so, please pass your source along to them, I'm sure they'd be interested.
Since the thread has been derailed, I might as well post this rebuttal before I go out for beers.rawls2 wrote:
They are dying over there so you and your mate can get shitfaced drunk with out the fear of getting blown up by a islamic terrorist.aardfrith wrote:
Go on, tell me, why are your fellow Americans dying in Iraq on a daily basis?Miller wrote:
I say they should play it, over and over and over. That way some people (mostly idiots) will finally grasp why we are at war.
I, for one, will be out drinking beers and celebrating tomorrow night. It is, after all, my best mate's birthday.
The only terrorists that have struck in Leeds in the time that I have lived here were Christians, not Muslims. Fuck the IRA and fuck the Americans who supported them.
When you're talking about 72,000 anything, it's usually an estimate. Be it 72k hairs on Mr. Bush's ass, or 72k dead civilians, it's hard to be certain. I don't know where they got it from, but that's just the data I found. It's going to be vaguely accurate, although I doubt it's exactly 72k.Kmarion wrote:
lol.. thats just them saying estimated amount is 72k . A little evidence please.ghettoperson wrote:
EDIT: Full figures for anyone whose interested. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/pol … 466758.ece
You need to back a source up when you make a claim like , you know, 72,000 people are dead. The person citing the claim is the one who validates it in a debate.ghettoperson wrote:
Do you have proof to suggest that they're wrong? If so, please pass your source along to them, I'm sure they'd be interested.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
That is the source, how the hell should I know where they got it from? Most people in debates are not required to prove their sources source. It's coming from a reputable newspaper.Kmarion wrote:
You need to back a source up when you make a claim like , you know, 72,000 people are dead. The person citing the claim is the one who validates it in a debate.ghettoperson wrote:
Do you have proof to suggest that they're wrong? If so, please pass your source along to them, I'm sure they'd be interested.
If you're interested, drop them a line and ask.
Obviously it has a lean and if you can't see that there is a real problem. I myself being the crazy Neo con that I am can see networks such as fox leaning.ghettoperson wrote:
That is the source, how the hell should I know where they got it from? Most people in debates are not required to prove their sources source. It's coming from a reputable newspaper.Kmarion wrote:
You need to back a source up when you make a claim like , you know, 72,000 people are dead. The person citing the claim is the one who validates it in a debate.ghettoperson wrote:
Do you have proof to suggest that they're wrong? If so, please pass your source along to them, I'm sure they'd be interested.
If you're interested, drop them a line and ask.
Take a look at some of their articles..
* 9/11 - A bloody legacy
* 'Running hot' - British forces stretched to the limit
* Get troops out, say sisters of Fijian soldier killed by Taliban
* Nafeez Ahmed: Bush's macabre dance of death with bin Laden Independent Porfolio Content
Numbers like that have to be accounted for not just simply stated. That very same site has an article saying 62,006 - the number killed in the 'war on terror' . http://news.independent.co.uk/world/pol … 433404.ece
Ummmm, a little discrepancies within itself is there? Obviously they are pulling numbers out at random.
Last edited by Kmarion (2006-09-11 11:05:42)
Xbone Stormsurgezz
I see no Americans weeping over the estimated tens of thousands of innocent civilians in the mid-east (most say at least 40,000, some say much more). That's over 10 times the amount of people killed on 9/11.
It's one thing if you care about civilian casualties, but barely even acknowledging the staggering amount of casualties we caused just for the sake of payback is sick and hypocritical.
I'll remember 9/11, and how tragic it was. But I also won't forget our pathetic response to it. Instead of uniting Americans, Bush did the exact opposite. Instead of creating allies, Bush did the exact opposite. Instead of using the opportunity to demonstrate how democracy can win, Bush did the exact opposite.
I don't think many Muslims will forget their losses in this "Global War on Terrorism" either, in fact, I have a hunch that this war even created a new generation of terrorists.... awful ironic, isn't it?
It's one thing if you care about civilian casualties, but barely even acknowledging the staggering amount of casualties we caused just for the sake of payback is sick and hypocritical.
I'll remember 9/11, and how tragic it was. But I also won't forget our pathetic response to it. Instead of uniting Americans, Bush did the exact opposite. Instead of creating allies, Bush did the exact opposite. Instead of using the opportunity to demonstrate how democracy can win, Bush did the exact opposite.
I don't think many Muslims will forget their losses in this "Global War on Terrorism" either, in fact, I have a hunch that this war even created a new generation of terrorists.... awful ironic, isn't it?
Last edited by Spearhead (2006-09-11 11:14:39)
I can see that it has a lean, however, I can't see them leaning far enough to completely make numbers up. Interesting what you said about the 62k though.
4thSpearhead wrote:
I see no Americans weeping over the estimated (most say at least 40,000, some say much more) dead. That's over 20 times the amount of people killed on 9/11.
Kmarion wrote:
This is the third time someone has used the deaths of thousands of other people as a tool to promote what they feel is a fact that Americans don't care about anything else but themselves.
The fact is the only time they seem to care is when they see it as an opportunity to use their numbers as anti-American propaganda. And that's the truth.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
I'm in no way shape or form anti-American. You are probably one of the several million of other Americans who everyday use the word anti-American to label anyone you see who disagrees, contradicts, or point out something you don't like. America does not equal the Republcian party, America is every citizen who lives in the country. You are anti-American for calling me anti-American, and you will probably never realize that. It is so f*cking ironic, you and people like you are the very reason why the country has become what it is, and the only way you could ever be anti-American in this country is by labeling other Americans with the exact same phrase.Kmarion wrote:
4thSpearhead wrote:
I see no Americans weeping over the estimated (most say at least 40,000, some say much more) dead. That's over 20 times the amount of people killed on 9/11.Kmarion wrote:
This is the third time someone has used the deaths of thousands of other people as a tool to promote what they feel is a fact that Americans don't care about anything else but themselves.
The fact is the only time they seem to care is when they see it as an opportunity to use their numbers as anti-American propaganda. And that's the truth.
So, instead of acknowledging the fact that you yourself see no Americans weeping over tens of thousands of innocent civilians dead, you label me anti-American because I stated a fact
Last edited by Spearhead (2006-09-11 11:15:25)
I was driving to work in Southern California.
I hadn't finished my coffee when they hit the Pentagon.
I did the same thing today, but the news was how it was leaked that the Sunni Triangle has basically been ceded to the terrorist.
I guess I have to admit that in retrospect a case could be made that we fucked up by invading Iraq.
The underlying main reason we did it is that we cannot allow Bin Laden types access to the oil field money.
It seems that short of carpet bombing falluja and any other troublesome place, we should just declare peace and victory and leave it to the Iranians and Turks to carve it up.
The politicians are not letting our soldiers do their jobs, and maybe after all, it was not worth doing.
We should be sweeping through Pakistan because they appear to be sheltering him.
I hadn't finished my coffee when they hit the Pentagon.
I did the same thing today, but the news was how it was leaked that the Sunni Triangle has basically been ceded to the terrorist.
I guess I have to admit that in retrospect a case could be made that we fucked up by invading Iraq.
The underlying main reason we did it is that we cannot allow Bin Laden types access to the oil field money.
It seems that short of carpet bombing falluja and any other troublesome place, we should just declare peace and victory and leave it to the Iranians and Turks to carve it up.
The politicians are not letting our soldiers do their jobs, and maybe after all, it was not worth doing.
We should be sweeping through Pakistan because they appear to be sheltering him.
You addressed "Americans" in a manner that displays no way of caring for 40,000 dead. Since you chose to use the term American in a sense of not caring about any of the other 40k dead I deemed your post to be anti-American unless you realized it or not.Spearhead wrote:
I'm in no way shape or form anti-American. You are probably one of the several million of other Americans who everyday use the word anti-American to label anyone you see who disagrees, contradicts, or point out something you don't like. America does not equal the Republcian party, America is every citizen who lives in the country. You are anti-American for calling me anti-American, and you will probably never realize that. It is so f*cking ironic, you and people like you are the very reason why the country has become what it is, and the only way you could ever be anti-American is by labeling other Americans with the exact same phrase.Kmarion wrote:
4thSpearhead wrote:
I see no Americans weeping over the estimated (most say at least 40,000, some say much more) dead. That's over 20 times the amount of people killed on 9/11.Kmarion wrote:
This is the third time someone has used the deaths of thousands of other people as a tool to promote what they feel is a fact that Americans don't care about anything else but themselves.
The fact is the only time they seem to care is when they see it as an opportunity to use their numbers as anti-American propaganda. And that's the truth.
So, instead of acknowledging the fact that you yourself see no Americans weeping over tens of thousands of innocent civilians dead, you label me anti-American because I stated a fact
Last edited by Kmarion (2006-09-11 11:18:06)
Xbone Stormsurgezz
1. You can't EVER believe statistics, unless you tallied the numbers yourself. Statistics are manipulated for effect by the media, politicians, and anyone else with an agenda.
2. You can't believe the media. News networks are notorious for expressing opinion. Opinion is not news.
3. You can't trust your politicans. They are beholden to the lobbyists who convince them that their issue is the one that needs the money and support.
So, then, what can you trust?
You can believe that on September 11, a large number of innocent people were murdered in massive explosions, building collapses, and plane crashes. Whether or not you choose to believe the numbers posted by the media is up to you. But ask any wife, any son, any husband, any daughter who lost someone that day, and they will tell you that the numbers aren't the important thing. If you are looking for credibility, I have it. My sister was in WTC 2.
Remember on this day the people you love. If you have a partner, tell them you love them. If you have a family, give them a call. If you have children, squeeze them a little tighter. We are all finite, and we never know when OUR number is up.
2. You can't believe the media. News networks are notorious for expressing opinion. Opinion is not news.
3. You can't trust your politicans. They are beholden to the lobbyists who convince them that their issue is the one that needs the money and support.
So, then, what can you trust?
You can believe that on September 11, a large number of innocent people were murdered in massive explosions, building collapses, and plane crashes. Whether or not you choose to believe the numbers posted by the media is up to you. But ask any wife, any son, any husband, any daughter who lost someone that day, and they will tell you that the numbers aren't the important thing. If you are looking for credibility, I have it. My sister was in WTC 2.
Remember on this day the people you love. If you have a partner, tell them you love them. If you have a family, give them a call. If you have children, squeeze them a little tighter. We are all finite, and we never know when OUR number is up.
Well I believe each individual name they are reading out right now on TV is not made up at Ground Zero.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
I said I see no one weeping. That's not saying they don't care, but I saw the entire country weeping on 9/11 for 3,000 dead civilians. I see no one weeping now for what we've done in the middle-east. Again, just stating facts. Where did I say "No Americans care?". Caring and weeping are pretty far apart on the "Feeling sad" scale.Kmarion wrote:
You addressed "Americans" in a manner that displays no way of caring for 40,000 dead. Since you chose to use the term American in a sense of not caring about any of the other 40k dead I deemed your post to be anti-American unless you realized it or not.Spearhead wrote:
I'm in no way shape or form anti-American. You are probably one of the several million of other Americans who everyday use the word anti-American to label anyone you see who disagrees, contradicts, or point out something you don't like. America does not equal the Republcian party, America is every citizen who lives in the country. You are anti-American for calling me anti-American, and you will probably never realize that. It is so f*cking ironic, you and people like you are the very reason why the country has become what it is, and the only way you could ever be anti-American is by labeling other Americans with the exact same phrase.Kmarion wrote:
4thSpearhead wrote:
I see no Americans weeping over the estimated (most say at least 40,000, some say much more) dead. That's over 20 times the amount of people killed on 9/11.
So, instead of acknowledging the fact that you yourself see no Americans weeping over tens of thousands of innocent civilians dead, you label me anti-American because I stated a fact