BF2S Forums Rumors are "Israel wants to negotiate with Hezbollah"

sgt_mango333 wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

DSRTurtle wrote:

Isreal did agree to give Palestine recognition and land at one point.  Hezbollah and other idiots have decided to reject that point.  Therefore negotiations are now pointless.  Bomb the fucking terrorists back to the stone age.

Isn't that nice, Israel agrees to recognize Palestine (who's people were there before Israel existed) and to give them land (that they had already owned and Israel stole).

That's just mighty generous of them...

That's funny...I thought Israel was just reclaiming land that has been there's for thousands of years.

Well you were wrong then. Israel through terrorist tactics drove out the British intermediaries and stole the area of land then known as Palestine (now most of that land is known as Israel). If you were refering to the fact that thousands of years ago there was Jewish civilisation there then I should point out they took that land of the ancestors of the Palestinians.

Bertster7 wrote:

sgt_mango333 wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

Isn't that nice, Israel agrees to recognize Palestine (who's people were there before Israel existed) and to give them land (that they had already owned and Israel stole).

That's just mighty generous of them...

That's funny...I thought Israel was just reclaiming land that has been there's for thousands of years.

Well you were wrong then. Israel through terrorist tactics drove out the British intermediaries and stole the area of land then known as Palestine (now most of that land is known as Israel). If you were refering to the fact that thousands of years ago there was Jewish civilisation there then I should point out they took that land of the ancestors of the Palestinians.

Israel was driven from that land; a land they occupied for thousands of years.  Reclamation can hardly be called stealing.  What you call thievery, is called conquest in all other situations and seems to be perfectly acceptable so long as it isn't Israel doing the conquering.

What is your beef with Israel?  How have its inhabitants wronged you?  Why are you so hostile to it and any who would defend it?

sgt_mango333 wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

DSRTurtle wrote:

Isreal did agree to give Palestine recognition and land at one point.  Hezbollah and other idiots have decided to reject that point.  Therefore negotiations are now pointless.  Bomb the fucking terrorists back to the stone age.

Isn't that nice, Israel agrees to recognize Palestine (who's people were there before Israel existed) and to give them land (that they had already owned and Israel stole).

That's just mighty generous of them...

That's funny...I thought Israel was just reclaiming land that has been there's for thousands of years.

No...Israel stole the land from the Caananites before the Romans kicked them out.  It was never theirs first.

That's why this whole mess exists today.

HM1{N} wrote:

DSRTurtle wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Israel is in that place and that's the reality.  Both sides have rights on that land.  So Israel must open to negotiation.  Your quotes "you don't negotiate with terrorists" and the others, leave them for Hollywood.  What you must seek here is achieving the peace in middle east, and I'm pretty sure that your war against terrorism will bring more terrorism from both sides.

Isreal did agree to give Palestine recognition and land at one point.  Hezbollah and other idiots have decided to reject that point.  Therefore negotiations are now pointless.  Bomb the fucking terrorists back to the stone age.

Isn't that nice, Israel agrees to recognize Palestine (who's people were there before Israel existed) and to give them land (that they had already owned and Israel stole).

That's just mighty generous of them...

There were given the choice, but the idiots in Hamz and Hezbollah refused.  For the simple fact that they have said from the first day of Isreal's creation that "we will not rest until is Isreal is completely destroyed."

Therefore as far as I'm concerned Isreal doesn't have to negotiate period, and anyone who harbors someone who believes that is fair game for Isreal.  You want to deny Isreal the right to defend themselves.  I don't see you or anyone else who wants negotiations complaining about the number of Isreali women and children who have been killed over the years by FUCKING TERRORISTS.

Vilham wrote:

sgt_mango333 wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

If Europe goes, the US won't be far behind.  You struggled when you had Western Europe and the Middle East was out of it during the Cold War, without Western Europe and with the Middle East against you, do you think you'll last?

Having said that, Europe is no-one's bitch.

You have a funny slant on history.  If I recall, it was the US who liberated most of Europe and without the US involvement on the European front, ya'll would be speaking German right now and driving around in Volkswagens.

As to the issue of American resolve and its war capability, I think it will be just fine if it pulled out and relied on itself for a change.  It is the rest of the world that would fall to hell in a hand basket.  The UN, already impotent, would fall apart without US backing.  Where would that leave you?

Another person that literally knows jack shit about WWII and tries to bring up something that is entirely irrelivent  in this day and age. Europe is no ones bitch. If we wanted the EU could place trade restrictions to the US and then your economy would be fucked in the face and your country wouldnt be so great then so stop thinking it is now.

Actually, most of the stuff we get here in the U.S. doesn't come from Europe, except of course for crappy wine and over-priced pompous vehicles.

Therefore, I would think it's funny...

sgt_mango333 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

lowing wrote:

More of a just cause than joining the terrorists that you and the rest of the liberal think tank hold so dear.

Lowing, as always you keep the debate very low, that's why the nick?
Your narrow mind doesn't let you see things clear.  None of us, the terrorists lap dogs liberals, are supporting terrorists.  The point here is to end this fucking war, and the only thing you have to say is the bullshit you always talk about the liberals.  Why don't you get yourself a history book, or clean the virus that fucked your pc coz your viewpoints are so wrong.  So, we must think you are not getting the proper info or you don't get it at all.

Wow Serge...that was a powerful and eloquent argument.  Not a single fact of refute or anything productive to say...really what was the point in showing everyone your ignorance?

Why should I bother in answering with eloquence and wisdom when people like you is getting involved?

sergeriver wrote:

sgt_mango333 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Lowing, as always you keep the debate very low, that's why the nick?
Your narrow mind doesn't let you see things clear.  None of us, the terrorists lap dogs liberals, are supporting terrorists.  The point here is to end this fucking war, and the only thing you have to say is the bullshit you always talk about the liberals.  Why don't you get yourself a history book, or clean the virus that fucked your pc coz your viewpoints are so wrong.  So, we must think you are not getting the proper info or you don't get it at all.

Wow Serge...that was a powerful and eloquent argument.  Not a single fact of refute or anything productive to say...really what was the point in showing everyone your ignorance?

Why should I bother in answering with eloquence and wisdom when people like you is getting involved?

Thank you for further proving my point...not a single shred of enlightenment on any of the issues being discussed.  Your poorly translated English tyrades do nothing but drag these forums down.

Vilham wrote:

sgt_mango333 wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

If Europe goes, the US won't be far behind.  You struggled when you had Western Europe and the Middle East was out of it during the Cold War, without Western Europe and with the Middle East against you, do you think you'll last?

Having said that, Europe is no-one's bitch.

You have a funny slant on history.  If I recall, it was the US who liberated most of Europe and without the US involvement on the European front, ya'll would be speaking German right now and driving around in Volkswagens.

As to the issue of American resolve and its war capability, I think it will be just fine if it pulled out and relied on itself for a change.  It is the rest of the world that would fall to hell in a hand basket.  The UN, already impotent, would fall apart without US backing.  Where would that leave you?

Another person that literally knows jack shit about WWII and tries to bring up something that is entirely irrelivent  in this day and age. Europe is no ones bitch. If we wanted the EU could place trade restrictions to the US and then your economy would be fucked in the face and your country wouldnt be so great then so stop thinking it is now.

Bring your restrictions and embargos; please.  Give Americans one more reason to turn their backs on an ungrateful Europe.  As for my knowing nothing of WWII history, you know nothing of what I know and speaking on it only proves your foolishness.  France was under German rule, Great Britain was struggling to tread water, and the rest of Europe...well let's just say they fought valiantly.  How much more do I need to go into detail?

sgt_mango333 wrote:

Vilham wrote:

sgt_mango333 wrote:

You have a funny slant on history.  If I recall, it was the US who liberated most of Europe and without the US involvement on the European front, ya'll would be speaking German right now and driving around in Volkswagens.

As to the issue of American resolve and its war capability, I think it will be just fine if it pulled out and relied on itself for a change.  It is the rest of the world that would fall to hell in a hand basket.  The UN, already impotent, would fall apart without US backing.  Where would that leave you?

Another person that literally knows jack shit about WWII and tries to bring up something that is entirely irrelivent  in this day and age. Europe is no ones bitch. If we wanted the EU could place trade restrictions to the US and then your economy would be fucked in the face and your country wouldnt be so great then so stop thinking it is now.

Bring your restrictions and embargos; please.  Give Americans one more reason to turn their backs on an ungrateful Europe.  As for my knowing nothing of WWII history, you know nothing of what I know and speaking on it only proves your foolishness.  France was under German rule, Great Britain was struggling to tread water, and the rest of Europe...well let's just say they fought valiantly.  How much more do I need to go into detail?

1. Britain wasnt treading water at all, get your facts right.
2. Russia is what saved Europe not USA, even without your help Russia could NOT be conquered by Germany, have you even any idea how huge the Steppes are? The Germans would take the whole mobile stage of a year just to cross them before winter came and the Russians used to fighting in those conditions pushed them back, Russias population was so huge and Stalins commitment to beating Germany was huge. ofcourse there is some opinion that Stalin would agree to have a ceasefire with Hitler but this would just stop Hitler in his tracks, with a ruined economy and population. Invading England was never an option due to lack of fuel and naval power, therefore England was sorted as far as that was concerned, the commonwealth was fully prepared to aid England through out the war much to their credit.

Go read up before you try and comment on WWII PLZ! I literally beg of you.

sergeriver wrote:

sgt_mango333 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Lowing since when does negotiation entail 'giving the terrorists everything they want and praying they leave you alone'? Negototiation involves two or more parties stating their positions, making clear what is acceptable and what is not acceptable to them, making concessions which are acceptably reciprocated and coming to an agreed resolution or quasi-resolution (or agreeing to disagree completely). Choosing to hear one anothers positions does not bind you to submitting to the other party nor does it mean you are holding them in any higher regard than you did previously.

In a rational compromise with two sides agreeing and honoring the agreement this would work.  Unfortunately, the middle east will never be peaceful until the Arab nations have their way and Israel is destroyed.  No amount of compromise will be sufficient on the Israeli side to prevent attacks from the likes of Hezbollah.

Please remember, Israel conceded and moved out of Lebanon several years ago.  They had no presence in country and only maintained the border.  So what was the provocation that got two soldiers kidnapped?  Their very existence.  This is all the rest of the middle east needs as provocation against Israel and all they need to break faith with any treaty involving Israel. 

A middle east cease fire is really only a break in fighting for anti-Israeli forces to regroup for another attack.

So, kidnapping two soldiers is enough to strike more than 7000 lebanese targets, to kill more than 1000 lebanese people, mostly civilians, to displace 1 million lebanese people and 500k isaraeli people.  Your ignorance appears to be at least as great as mine.

No, Serge, your right that response was inappropriate.  They should have pressed deeper into Lebanon and made an example out of them for the rest of the middle east.  When will you peacenicks get it through your head that war is sometimes the unfortunate answer and that it has solved most of the world's major conflicts, for better or worse.

Vilham wrote:

sgt_mango333 wrote:

Vilham wrote:

Good another ignorant American... stopping trade to America would also mean no imports from America meaning less money for you to pay off your huge national debt due to your low taxs. I would like to point out commonwealth trade could also stop due to a change like that.

http://www.export.gov/about/benefits_exporting.asp

Yes, yes us poor ignorant Americans, so consumed with ourselves and not realizing we need the rest of the world to make us relevant.  Get over your self!

You know what would be REALLY funny...is if America called in all of its loans given in good faith to its "allies".  It would be down right hillarious if we decided you pompous asses owed us for our rebuilding and protection of your continent.  And then maybe for an encore, America pulls out of the UN all together and leaves you guys to fend for yourselves - you fix Kosovo, you figure out how to prevent communism, you recover from your own natural disasters.

Yeah it would be realy funny coz you would get nearly no cash as England and the majority of the loans from WWII are paid back this year anyway!!! HAHA IN YOUR FACE! lol communism!!! hahaha your one of those yanks that thinks communism is coming to take over the world!

You amaze me...communism is nearly dead because the Americans were the only ones doing anything about it.  Your baseless and derogatory comments do nothing for this discussion. Please refrain as you only show a low maturity level when you do so.  As to England's debts...I know your going to find this hard to swallow, but England still isn't the center of the world.

sgt_mango333 wrote:

In a rational compromise with two sides agreeing and honoring the agreement this would work.  Unfortunately, the middle east will never be peaceful until the Arab nations have their way and Israel is destroyed.  No amount of compromise will be sufficient on the Israeli side to prevent attacks from the likes of Hezbollah.

Please remember, Israel conceded and moved out of Lebanon several years ago.  They had no presence in country and only maintained the border.  So what was the provocation that got two soldiers kidnapped?  Their very existence.  This is all the rest of the middle east needs as provocation against Israel and all they need to break faith with any treaty involving Israel. 

A middle east cease fire is really only a break in fighting for anti-Israeli forces to regroup for another attack.

Au contraire, Israel and Palestine for instance have agreed a great many things in the past. What once seemed unthinkable, the PLO conceding that the state of Israel had a right to exist, came to pass and why can't similar agreements occur in the future? Israel negotiated the release of Elchanan Tenenbaum from Hezbollah captivity two years ago, in exchange for the release of some 400 Lebanese imprisoned in Israel since the 1982 invasion. Egypt and Jordan agreed to recognise Israel if Israel agreed to withdraw from the illegally occupied Sinai peninsula. Jewish tourists even frequent Jordan and Egypt now, unthinkable decades ago (I saw them myself in Petra). To be closed-minded about compromise is not very helpful. If Israel doesn't start falling back from its own hardline positions then it can never expect the rest of the middle east to. As such, by weight of numbers alone, an end to the existence of Israel at some point in the future may be inevitable.

PS Israel did not withdraw fully from Lebanon. It still occupies the Shebaa Farms area. As such, based on their charter, Hezbollah would have deemed themselves to be in the right with respect to attacking Israel. It also illegally holds over a thousand Lebanese prisoners of war from the 1982 invasion, which it was supposed to release upon evacuation of southern Lebanon circa 2000.

PPS Conquest is generally NOT acceptable and also, where exactly do you think Palestinians come from? Do you think they materialised out of thin air or something? Another thing - if you want to play the history card then maybe we should hand Israel back to the rightful Cana'anite owners.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-08-31 11:24:45)

sergeriver wrote:

sgt_mango333 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Guys this ain't fuckin' BF2, this is for real and people is dying while you are watching the Yankees at Atlanta in tv.  When you say bomb the fuckin terrorists you are saying bomb Israel, coz that's what will happen.  I think the thread is pointless at this time , some of us want to negotiate and we are being labeled as terrorists supporters and the other group don't want to negotiate and prefers that both sides get wiped from the earth.  Besides, the most sure thing here is that there will be no fuckin' negotiation at all and they will wipe each other, so the pro war group wins.

Serge, dude...you gotta think about your posts before you submit them - really.  Israel's very presence is an afront to most of the middle east nations due the differences between Judaism and Islam.  There will be no peace so long as they exist.

Negotiation and compromise is a two way street.  Check the books and you will find Israel as the victim of many a broken treaty.  Because Israel's existence is so offensive to Islamic nations there can never be peace.

No one should be labeling you as a terrorist supporter unless they have proof of such an atrocity.  However, negotiation with terrorists can never happen - give them an inch they will ask for a foot and continue to commit violent attrocities to gain that foot.  Compromise with these entities only encourages the actions they employ to get their way.

You have such an ego to tell me how to post.  I think you should understand that the fact Israel is where it is now, has no solution.  So, you have two ways: one is let them to get wiped, the other is to negotiate.  Don't talk me of books, I checked a few so far, and Israel ain't no victim.  You should know that terrorism is not only a dude blowing himself with C4 in a market of Tel Aviv.  It's also bombing during 20 years Lebanon or oppressing millions of palestine people.  And don't tell me I'm antisemite or else.  I'm jewish myself, but what Israel is doing is terrorism as well.  But, I didn't think before posting this one so whatever.

Finally, some actual opinions on topic...I'm proud of you Serge.  I knew you could do it. 

Israel is a legitimate country with a legitimate army.  Your precious UN has so recognized this fact.  Hezbollah is a terrorist organization without a country or legimate recognition.  Israeli/Lebanese tensions can hardly be construed as terrorism on Israel's part. 

And by the way, just because your Jewish doesn't mean you can't be antisemitic.  It's called self hate and is very common.