JimmyBotswana
Member
+82|6832|Montreal

lowing wrote:

When I refer to changes I mean in circumstances, leadership, threats, etc....the lack of changes I refer to in the ME are those of the people still living in mud huts, with no fresh water, no food, no jobs, no electricity. All the while their leadership sits on a gazillion barrels of oil pumped from the ground and nothing filters down to to the citizens.
I assume you are referring to the lack of fresh water in Iraq, since most of the rest of the Middle East has fresh water systems, with the deplorable exception of the Palestinian occupied territories. Yes, Iraq has a serious lack of potable tap water, but this was not the case before the first Iraq war, when their infrastructure was the most modern in the region, rivalling Israel. The United States repeatedly bombed water purification plants in Iraq, a heinous war crime according to international law. Afterwards, the UN imposed sanctions, which were thanks to tremendous pressure from your country's UN representatives, ensured that Iraq's water infrastructure could not be rebuilt. Analysts claim the sanctions killed 500,000 Iraqis, most of them children. It's really very funny you comment on none of the oil profits flowing down to the people, because that is what Mossadegh tried to do in 1953 and that is why your country overthrew his government and instituted the dictatorship of the Shah. As for the mud huts comment, I won't comment except to say you should get out more, the arab nations have apartments and houses like America, ok maybe not as modern but still quite amenable.

lowing wrote:

The only thing that disgusts me about America's critics, is the fact you bitch about America, then when you need help, you look toward America for free aid and handouts. Then you bitch that it didn't come soon enough, or it wasn't enough or America could have done more. Please, if you don't want us involved in your hemispheres affairs, I could not agree more. Cuz quite frankly I am sick of my tax dollars going to the UN or any other fucked up country in the world that "need our aid" but "hate our guts".... I am all for getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan. I am all for letting those idiots kill each other off. I would just leave a note behind that read, "Your violence finds its way to America again or its allies again and you will become the next crater lake. As far as the oil in the region goes. If it is going to be held hostage from the world, that is fine. If anyone is going to mass produce cars with alternative fuels it will be America. They can keep their oil, and we can keep our food, medical technology and supplies, and aid money. I am all for being an isolationist country. I do not want to be involved with other countries problems. The US and UN are now talking about involvement in the Sudan, I say nope, because people like you find fault in the efforts put forth, while you sit and home and watch the grass grow. Boy ya gotta love a critic. You MUST be French!!!
I can't believe you are that much of the stereotypical ignorant American that you think that Montreal is in another hemisphere. I think it is pretty obvious I am not french, though I see your ignorance is so thorough you have no idea who won your war of independence for you, or who helped you through so much of history to defend yourselves against the british. Yes America paid France back in WWII, though apparently that is the extent of your historical memory. By the way, Montreal is in Canada, which is in your hemisphere, and is not dependent on your foreign aid, stingy as it is. But of course you spend so much on the military you simply can't afford to help all the poor countries. You would rather just bomb them. A billion dollars of trade passes between our border every day, so you should be thanking us as much as we should be thanking you.

And if you are such an isolationist, why are you such a staunch supporter of Bush and Cheney and their interventionist foreign policy?
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6897|USA

JimmyBotswana wrote:

lowing wrote:

When I refer to changes I mean in circumstances, leadership, threats, etc....the lack of changes I refer to in the ME are those of the people still living in mud huts, with no fresh water, no food, no jobs, no electricity. All the while their leadership sits on a gazillion barrels of oil pumped from the ground and nothing filters down to to the citizens.
I assume you are referring to the lack of fresh water in Iraq, since most of the rest of the Middle East has fresh water systems, with the deplorable exception of the Palestinian occupied territories. Yes, Iraq has a serious lack of potable tap water, but this was not the case before the first Iraq war, when their infrastructure was the most modern in the region, rivalling Israel. The United States repeatedly bombed water purification plants in Iraq, a heinous war crime according to international law. Afterwards, the UN imposed sanctions, which were thanks to tremendous pressure from your country's UN representatives, ensured that Iraq's water infrastructure could not be rebuilt. Analysts claim the sanctions killed 500,000 Iraqis, most of them children. It's really very funny you comment on none of the oil profits flowing down to the people, because that is what Mossadegh tried to do in 1953 and that is why your country overthrew his government and instituted the dictatorship of the Shah. As for the mud huts comment, I won't comment except to say you should get out more, the arab nations have apartments and houses like America, ok maybe not as modern but still quite amenable.

lowing wrote:

The only thing that disgusts me about America's critics, is the fact you bitch about America, then when you need help, you look toward America for free aid and handouts. Then you bitch that it didn't come soon enough, or it wasn't enough or America could have done more. Please, if you don't want us involved in your hemispheres affairs, I could not agree more. Cuz quite frankly I am sick of my tax dollars going to the UN or any other fucked up country in the world that "need our aid" but "hate our guts".... I am all for getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan. I am all for letting those idiots kill each other off. I would just leave a note behind that read, "Your violence finds its way to America again or its allies again and you will become the next crater lake. As far as the oil in the region goes. If it is going to be held hostage from the world, that is fine. If anyone is going to mass produce cars with alternative fuels it will be America. They can keep their oil, and we can keep our food, medical technology and supplies, and aid money. I am all for being an isolationist country. I do not want to be involved with other countries problems. The US and UN are now talking about involvement in the Sudan, I say nope, because people like you find fault in the efforts put forth, while you sit and home and watch the grass grow. Boy ya gotta love a critic. You MUST be French!!!
I can't believe you are that much of the stereotypical ignorant American that you think that Montreal is in another hemisphere. I think it is pretty obvious I am not french, though I see your ignorance is so thorough you have no idea who won your war of independence for you, or who helped you through so much of history to defend yourselves against the british. Yes America paid France back in WWII, though apparently that is the extent of your historical memory. By the way, Montreal is in Canada, which is in your hemisphere, and is not dependent on your foreign aid, stingy as it is. But of course you spend so much on the military you simply can't afford to help all the poor countries. You would rather just bomb them. A billion dollars of trade passes between our border every day, so you should be thanking us as much as we should be thanking you.

And if you are such an isolationist, why are you such a staunch supporter of Bush and Cheney and their interventionist foreign policy?
War is hell, if you don't want to fight one..........DON'T START ONE.

France WASN'T fighting FOR AMERICA. The French, as usual, got their asses pretty much kicked out of what was to be the USA about 20 years earlier. They were fighting AGAINST the British.

I never discussed or asked where you are from.   French Canadian, close enough

funny you should mention stingy.     http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_bart … 031119.asp


I am not a supporter of Bush and Cheney, I am a supporter of fighting and defeating terrorism WITHOUT negotiating with them.

I am do support isolationism for America, basically because I am sick of people like you telling us how terrible we are, while they hold out their hands for money or aid.

Last edited by lowing (2006-08-28 03:26:32)

jonsimon
Member
+224|6741

lowing wrote:

I am not a supporter of Bush and Cheney, I am a supporter of fighting and defeating terrorism WITHOUT negotiating with them.
Yes, the endless war.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6897|USA

jonsimon wrote:

lowing wrote:

I am not a supporter of Bush and Cheney, I am a supporter of fighting and defeating terrorism WITHOUT negotiating with them.
Yes, the endless war.
yeha, might as well succumb I guess and end it.....
jonsimon
Member
+224|6741

lowing wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

lowing wrote:

I am not a supporter of Bush and Cheney, I am a supporter of fighting and defeating terrorism WITHOUT negotiating with them.
Yes, the endless war.
yeha, might as well succumb I guess and end it.....
Right, we should stop the wars. I'm amazing, lowing, you've turned such a new leaf!
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6897|USA

jonsimon wrote:

lowing wrote:

jonsimon wrote:


Yes, the endless war.
yeha, might as well succumb I guess and end it.....
Right, we should stop the wars. I'm amazing, lowing, you've turned such a new leaf!
You are a pathetic lab dog. Your terrorist allies should be proud.
jonsimon
Member
+224|6741

lowing wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

lowing wrote:


yeha, might as well succumb I guess and end it.....
Right, we should stop the wars. I'm amazing, lowing, you've turned such a new leaf!
You are a pathetic lab dog. Your terrorist allies should be proud.
Lol I'm a terrorist lab dog

Guess they test their makeup on me.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6897|USA

jonsimon wrote:

lowing wrote:

jonsimon wrote:


Right, we should stop the wars. I'm amazing, lowing, you've turned such a new leaf!
You are a pathetic lab dog. Your terrorist allies should be proud.
Lol I'm a terrorist lab dog

Guess they test their makeup on me.
Wish they would test their bomb vests on you.
jonsimon
Member
+224|6741

lowing wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

lowing wrote:


You are a pathetic lab dog. Your terrorist allies should be proud.
Lol I'm a terrorist lab dog

Guess they test their makeup on me.
Wish they would test their bomb vests on you.
Yeah, next time get the expression right, its lap dog.
WyrdNyrd
Member
+6|6732|Mesa, AZ

Bertster7 wrote:

Colfax wrote:

Multiple lawyers with in the administration and outside of the administrations have found it to be legal under the constitution. 

Also about gitmo.  If they aren't U.S. citizens they have not rights under our constitution.  They answer to no laws so why should our laws apply to them.  They are terrorists they have no rights.

They don't know who they are listening to and they are only listening for key words and phrases.  If they need to find out who they are listening to a court order is needed.
People keep bringing up the fact that non-US citizens are not protected by the constitution and the right to fair trial. I should point out that EVERYONE has the right to fair trial under international law. But of course international law doesn't apply to America.

They are only terrorists with no rights once they have been proven to be terrorists in a court!
By your account, illegal immigrants should not be be protected as well since they don't have rights because they are non-americans.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6897|USA

jonsimon wrote:

lowing wrote:

jonsimon wrote:


Lol I'm a terrorist lab dog

Guess they test their makeup on me.
Wish they would test their bomb vests on you.
Yeah, next time get the expression right, its lap dog.
you are a liberal, of course you are a lap dog, you need your govt. masters to educate you, take care of your health insurance, save for your retirement, give you money because you are too fuckin' lazy and unmotivated to get a fuckin' job, and you like to encourge more terrorism by printing war plans in the news papers and let the terrorists know that we are listening to there phone conversations and how wrong we are for doing so. LLLLLLLLLLLLLLAP Dog!!!!
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6899

WyrdNyrd wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Colfax wrote:

Multiple lawyers with in the administration and outside of the administrations have found it to be legal under the constitution. 

Also about gitmo.  If they aren't U.S. citizens they have not rights under our constitution.  They answer to no laws so why should our laws apply to them.  They are terrorists they have no rights.

They don't know who they are listening to and they are only listening for key words and phrases.  If they need to find out who they are listening to a court order is needed.
People keep bringing up the fact that non-US citizens are not protected by the constitution and the right to fair trial. I should point out that EVERYONE has the right to fair trial under international law. But of course international law doesn't apply to America.

They are only terrorists with no rights once they have been proven to be terrorists in a court!
By your account, illegal immigrants should not be be protected as well since they don't have rights because they are non-americans.
Did you read the post before replying?
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6897|USA

WyrdNyrd wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Colfax wrote:

Multiple lawyers with in the administration and outside of the administrations have found it to be legal under the constitution. 

Also about gitmo.  If they aren't U.S. citizens they have not rights under our constitution.  They answer to no laws so why should our laws apply to them.  They are terrorists they have no rights.

They don't know who they are listening to and they are only listening for key words and phrases.  If they need to find out who they are listening to a court order is needed.
People keep bringing up the fact that non-US citizens are not protected by the constitution and the right to fair trial. I should point out that EVERYONE has the right to fair trial under international law. But of course international law doesn't apply to America.

They are only terrorists with no rights once they have been proven to be terrorists in a court!
By your account, illegal immigrants should not be be protected as well since they don't have rights because they are non-americans.
BINGO!!!!!!!!
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6899

lowing wrote:

WyrdNyrd wrote:

By your account, illegal immigrants should not be be protected as well since they don't have rights because they are non-americans.
BINGO!!!!!!!!
Everyone has rights under international law.  By your standards, if I make a law in my country to execute Americans for "talking funny" that's fine, because international law doesn't matter.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6897|USA

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

lowing wrote:

WyrdNyrd wrote:

By your account, illegal immigrants should not be be protected as well since they don't have rights because they are non-americans.
BINGO!!!!!!!!
Everyone has rights under international law.  By your standards, if I make a law in my country to execute Americans for "talking funny" that's fine, because international law doesn't matter.
Then I will be sure not to "talk funny" in your country and RESPECT your laws, and if I don't agree with your laws then I will not illegally sneak into your country and leech off of you. See how easy it is??

Last edited by lowing (2006-08-28 19:07:30)

UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6899

lowing wrote:

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

lowing wrote:


BINGO!!!!!!!!
Everyone has rights under international law.  By your standards, if I make a law in my country to execute Americans for "talking funny" that's fine, because international law doesn't matter.
Then I will be sure not to "talk funny" in your country and RESPECT your laws, and if I don't agree with your laws then I will not illegally sneak into your country and leech off of you. See how easy it is??
So the holocaust was Germany's business, and the international community had no obligation to punish those responible?
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6897|USA

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

lowing wrote:

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:


Everyone has rights under international law.  By your standards, if I make a law in my country to execute Americans for "talking funny" that's fine, because international law doesn't matter.
Then I will be sure not to "talk funny" in your country and RESPECT your laws, and if I don't agree with your laws then I will not illegally sneak into your country and leech off of you. See how easy it is??
So the holocaust was Germany's business, and the international community had no obligation to punish those responible?
Kinda hard to "mind our own business" and get involved at the same time isn't it??


Besides that, how the hell did you tie THAT into what I said??
Zapata1982
Member
+4|6918|Los Angeles, KALIFoooNIaaa
1984.......   thats all i have to say
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6899

lowing wrote:

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

lowing wrote:

Then I will be sure not to "talk funny" in your country and RESPECT your laws, and if I don't agree with your laws then I will not illegally sneak into your country and leech off of you. See how easy it is??
So the holocaust was Germany's business, and the international community had no obligation to punish those responible?
Kinda hard to "mind our own business" and get involved at the same time isn't it??


Besides that, how the hell did you tie THAT into what I said??
You said that there is no need for a basic set of rights afforded by international laws, everyone should respect the laws of the country they are in.  Germany passed laws to exterminate the Jews, so basically you are saying that it was not appropriate for the international community to punish those responsible.  They (edit:the Jews) were executed for crimes which they didn't commit (i.e. attempting to destroy Germany and harm the German people) without the basic right of a fair trial.  If you don't think everyone has a right to a fair trial before being punished, then you don't think the Jews in Germany should have got one.  See how easy it is??

It's VERY EASY to "mind your own business" and get involved at the same time:  Ensure involvement in situations is done through an international body (like the UN).  That would 100% manage to do the task which you say is "kinda hard".  That means that you can't interfere in other countries for your own twisted purposes, it must serve a genuine purpose for maintaining the stability of the world.  See how easy it is??

Whether or not any country should have veto in this day and age is another matter, but instead of blatently flouting international law America should be lobbying to change it if it doesn't suit them.  You are clearly lobbying for a change to the way illegal immigration is handled, but the fact that it doesn't suit you doesn't mean you can ignore the law, and go and shoot some illegals.  If a law doesn't suit you, get it changed.  Don't just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist.  See how easy it is??

Last edited by UnOriginalNuttah (2006-08-29 04:03:30)

lowing
Banned
+1,662|6897|USA

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

lowing wrote:

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:


So the holocaust was Germany's business, and the international community had no obligation to punish those responible?
Kinda hard to "mind our own business" and get involved at the same time isn't it??


Besides that, how the hell did you tie THAT into what I said??
You said that there is no need for a basic set of rights afforded by international laws, everyone should respect the laws of the country they are in.  Germany passed laws to exterminate the Jews, so basically you are saying that it was not appropriate for the international community to punish those responsible.  They (edit:the Jews) were executed for crimes which they didn't commit (i.e. attempting to destroy Germany and harm the German people) without the basic right of a fair trial.  If you don't think everyone has a right to a fair trial before being punished, then you don't think the Jews in Germany should have got one.  See how easy it is??

It's VERY EASY to "mind your own business" and get involved at the same time:  Ensure involvement in situations is done through an international body (like the UN).  That would 100% manage to do the task which you say is "kinda hard".  That means that you can't interfere in other countries for your own twisted purposes, it must serve a genuine purpose for maintaining the stability of the world.  See how easy it is??

Whether or not any country should have veto in this day and age is another matter, but instead of blatently flouting international law America should be lobbying to change it if it doesn't suit them.  You are clearly lobbying for a change to the way illegal immigration is handled, but the fact that it doesn't suit you doesn't mean you can ignore the law, and go and shoot some illegals.  If a law doesn't suit you, get it changed.  Don't just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist.  See how easy it is??
You are trying to compare apples and oranges, and you damn well know it. The fact that you have to stretch so  far to try and prove a point actually proves mine. The US is not commiting genocide. Enough said.


The US will better serve the needs of those the US wants to help by giving the aid sirectly to the needy. Why in the world does the US needto give its monet to the fuckin' UN? The US does not bow to the whims of the UN period. We will not put our national security in the hands of an organization like the UN, where members are anti American to begin with. Feel free to do so in your country, but America is big enough to not need the UN to protect us. You can take that statement any fuckin' way you want.


The law suits me, its the  lack of enforcement of the law by liberal, vote hunting, lap dogs that doesn't suit me.
jonsimon
Member
+224|6741

lowing wrote:

The law suits me, its the  lack of enforcement of the law by liberal, vote hunting, lap dogs that doesn't suit me.
Hey! You used the right expression this time! Way to go lowing, you're a big boy now.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6897|USA

jonsimon wrote:

lowing wrote:

The law suits me, its the  lack of enforcement of the law by liberal, vote hunting, lap dogs that doesn't suit me.
Hey! You used the right expression this time! Way to go lowing, you're a big boy now.
believe me, I only use the expressions that fit.
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6899

lowing wrote:

You are trying to compare apples and oranges, and you damn well know it. The fact that you have to stretch so  far to try and prove a point actually proves mine. The US is not commiting genocide. Enough said.
Some people might beg to differ.  There is a history of genocide by America, such as the genocide of the native american people and the Filipino-American war.  Have you heard of the concept of passive genocide?  Just because an action occurs outside your own borders it does not change what it is.  I'm not going to make a claim that can't be proved, but I'll go as far as to say many people believe that some actions of the West in the ME amount to passive genocide.

lowing wrote:

The US will better serve the needs of those the US wants to help by giving the aid sirectly to the needy. Why in the world does the US needto give its monet to the fuckin' UN? The US does not bow to the whims of the UN period. We will not put our national security in the hands of an organization like the UN, where members are anti American to begin with. Feel free to do so in your country, but America is big enough to not need the UN to protect us. You can take that statement any fuckin' way you want.
I'll take it as you don't have a fucking clue why the UN was formed and what purpose it purports to serves.  Here's a clue: http://www0.un.org/cyberschoolbus/unintro/unintro2.htm

lowing wrote:

The law suits me, its the  lack of enforcement of the law by liberal, vote hunting, lap dogs that doesn't suit me.
I think you've got muddled up... it's the conservatives running big business tying up the politics of enforcement so they can get their cheap labour.  From my understanding liberals usually want controls on business to prevent that type of thing.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6897|USA

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

lowing wrote:

You are trying to compare apples and oranges, and you damn well know it. The fact that you have to stretch so  far to try and prove a point actually proves mine. The US is not committing genocide. Enough said.
Some people might beg to differ.  There is a history of genocide by America, such as the genocide of the native American people and the Filipino-American war.  Have you heard of the concept of passive genocide?  Just because an action occurs outside your own borders it does not change what it is.  I'm not going to make a claim that can't be proved, but I'll go as far as to say many people believe that some actions of the West in the ME amount to passive genocide.

lowing wrote:

The US will better serve the needs of those the US wants to help by giving the aid directly to the needy. Why in the world does the US need to give its money to the fuckin' UN? The US does not bow to the whims of the UN period. We will not put our national security in the hands of an organization like the UN, where members are anti American to begin with. Feel free to do so in your country, but America is big enough to not need the UN to protect us. You can take that statement any fuckin' way you want.
I'll take it as you don't have a fucking clue why the UN was formed and what purpose it purports to serves.  Here's a clue: http://www0.un.org/cyberschoolbus/unintro/unintro2.htm

lowing wrote:

The law suits me, its the  lack of enforcement of the law by liberal, vote hunting, lap dogs that doesn't suit me.
I think you've got muddled up... it's the conservatives running big business tying up the politics of enforcement so they can get their cheap labour.  From my understanding liberals usually want controls on business to prevent that type of thing.
Well you are now saying the most one of the most generous countries in the history of the world is committing genocide...Play it safe, keep it as an opinion.

Is this why the UN was formed??  ID=4200 http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic … 37,00.html http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic … E_ID=42088  http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/P … 2bqwjn.asp

No, liberals want control of business to force them to pay even more taxes than they already do so their ever needy social programs can be paid for. Since the policy is take from those that earn it and give to those that don't.

Also it is the liberal mentality that prevails with all the bullshit frivolous lawsuits that tie up our courts costing us billions.
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6899

lowing wrote:

Well you are now saying the most one of the most generous countries in the history of the world is committing genocide...Play it safe, keep it as an opinion.
I'm not, plenty of people are though.  And if you are going to post links to websites with adverts like this:
https://www.worldnetdaily.com/adbanners/ad.Those_Shirts.073106.Imagine_No_Liberals.Do_Not_Resuscitate.125x200.gif

Then I feel no remorse in responding with obviously biased sources too:

http://www.countercurrents.org/iraq-polya110305.htm
http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20ed … 0Polya.htm
http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/17012

http://news.sulekha.com/newsanalysisdisplay.aspx?cid=41395 wrote:

AN HORRENDOUS EXAMPLE OF UK-US PC RACISM is provided by Anglo-American mainstream media NON-REPORTAGE of the horrendous post-invasion under-5 infant mortality in  Coalition-occupied Iraq and Afghanistan (1.7 million) that is occurring through non-provision by the Anglo-American conquerors of life-sustaining requisites in gross violation of the Geneva Conventions i.e. PASSIVE GENOCIDE [see (6)].
Now, let's just ask a theoretical:  Are the protections offered by the Human Rights acts and Geneva Conventions applicable to these people, or not?
No, that's why it needs to be reformed.  When selfish individuals (e.g. the rapists and abusers) and states (e.g. Iraq, Israel, Lebanon, etc.) subvert and abuse the system for their own benefit then they should be brought to account and punished in international court, and questions should be asked as to how this can be prevented.  But the lessons of WWII should never be forget, and neither should the reason why the UN was formed.  My only hope is that it doesn't take another war on the scale of WWII to remind the world what the peacekeeping organisation is there for, and that everyone can see the benefit and work towards cooperation without slipping into the trap of excessive globalisation and violation of soveign rights.

lowing wrote:

No, liberals want control of business to force them to pay even more taxes than they already do so their ever needy social programs can be paid for. Since the policy is take from those that earn it and give to those that don't.
Since the conservatives are in power in America you are never going to get your way more than you are already.  And in fact, there will be an inevitable trend towards the left as demonstrated by history.  I wish I could see your face when that result comes in, but I'll just take comfort from the fact that if you hate the left when they aren't the dominant force in the Whitehouse, your life will be hell when they are. 

lowing wrote:

Also it is the liberal mentality that prevails with all the bullshit frivolous lawsuits that tie up our courts costing us billions.
Hmmmmmmm, not to sure where you get that one.  Maybe you mean 'those bullshit frivolous lawsuits that tie up out courts costing [us conservatives and big businesses] billions in buying our way out of accountability for gross negligence, exploitation, violation of local laws and generally shitty behaviour'.  Yeah, that must be it.

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