BF2S Forums Isreal//Lebanon

jonsimon wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

Hezbollah wont go heads up against the IDF because they would get slaughtered. Instead they attack the women and children left behind unprotected. Hezbollah picks the battlefield and they chose Lebanese neighborhoods. So tell me, who isn't concerned about who gets killed. Its the Hezzies who don't care.

But hezbollah has killed more IDF than civillians. That proves they are targeting the IDF, whether or not they are targeting civillians as well.

Ur rite..id Karma u if i had any left

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

Hezbollah wont go heads up against the IDF because they would get slaughtered. Instead they attack the women and children left behind unprotected. Hezbollah picks the battlefield and they chose Lebanese neighborhoods. So tell me, who isn't concerned about who gets killed. Its the Hezzies who don't care.

But hezbollah has killed more IDF than civillians. That proves they are targeting the IDF, whether or not they are targeting civillians as well.

Ur rite..id Karma u if i had any left

No he's not right

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

According to the numbers he is.

The numbers do not prove that the IDF is targetting civilians. There is more than enough proof out there (some of which I've already posted in this thread) that Hezbollah is targetting civilians with weapons designed to kill civilians. The IDF is targetting Hezbollah which bases itself in civilian neighborhoods. How many times do I need to say this before you understand it? When your enemey bases itself in civilian neightborhoods, civilian casualties are unavoidable. Not to mention you are completely ingoring the fact that Hezbollah is directly targetting civilians.

The blindness, stupidity, and ignorance in this thread amazes me. Don't just make assertions with nothing more than a broken link in the orignal post to back it up (I've found the real link but it, in no way, supports your claims). You're just making yourself look foolish. I eagerly await your next half-assed statement.

Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2006-08-25 13:44:54)

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

dude i knew this thread would piss ppl off and it obviously pissed u off.. Im just jotting down my opinion and wotever u sqy u wont be able to change it.. Fiirst Israel have been doin it to Palestine and now Hezbollah

Your stupidity pisses me off, not the topic.

bogo24dk wrote:

I wonder if any one here knows the history of hezbollah. And why they kidnapped the Israeli soldiers.

The reason why Hezbollah was formed was to combat the occupying forces which where the Israeli's. I am pretty sure if there was no hezbollah , then the Israelis would have settlers right in south Lebanon.
To any one here who is saying that hezbollah is attacking only woman and children maybe they should look at the history conflict of Israel and Lebanon since 1982. And how many civilians have been killed by IDF. Especially Sabra Shatila. The Israeli loves to call any one who is fighting them as terrorist. But their actions which inflict more dead and terror on civilians is overlooked. Why is that ?

Very Very Very true

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Isreal is fighting an enemy that hides behind its own civilians.

True.

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

They launch rockets from civilian neighborhoods, that is why civilian towns are being destroyed. One could attribute the majority of civilian casualties in this conflict to the cowardice of Hezbollah.

Not true. The majority of Hezbollah launch sites are located on remote hillsides. The Israelis probably would bomb them if they could find them, but they can't.
This is why Hezbollah have been able to launch rockets at full capacity for the entire duration of the conflict. In fact the number of rockets launched by Hezbollah (each day) increased day by day. Targeting of Lebanese infrastructure has been a deliberate part of Israeli policy according to sources from the IDF - one of the reasons a number of IDF soldiers have been complaining about the attacks and the strategy behind them.

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Isreal is not directly targeting nor eterminating the civilian population. Additionally, Hezbollah generally does not have "soldiers" in uniform that can be distinguished from regular civilians.

Yes they are. There have been 2 IDF soldiers (source, 1 from Channel 4 news - 1 from the Guardian) who have spoken out against the deliberate targeting of civilian infrastructure and David Shearer of the UN made this comment:
"The deliberate targeting of civilian infrastructure is a violation of international law."

"Israel also threatened to attack UN peacekeepers if they attempted to repair bomb-damaged bridges in southern Lebanon."(The Guardian)

One of the IDF soldiers spoke out because he was horrified by the deliberate targeting of a hospital.

There have been mass protests by IDF troops over the way the situation was handled:
"hundreds of reservists returning from the frontlines furious over the handling of the war have staged angry protests" (Channel 4 news)

The IDF commanders didn't seem to care much for Arab civilians:
One of the gunners commented: “In a war, these things happen. . . . It’s just a bunch of Arabs.” A second gunner said that, after bombarding the refugee camp, a commander told the gunners that “we were shooting well and to continue this way and that Arabs, you know, there are millions of them.” (Jerusalem Press)

It is this illegal targeting of civilian infrastructure which has led to the massive level of civilian casualties (80-90% - The Independent, BBC, Guardian, Times).

Does this look like specific targeting of launch sites - which need to be elevated - you can't get elevated rocket launch sites in Beirut, there's a mountain range in the way, unless you want to shoot your rockets into the sea.

There were legitimate targets in Beirut however - Hezbollah had military planning centres based there - but NO rocket sites.

No Israel aren't targeting the civilians themselves, but they're not making any effort not to and they are striking at civilian infrastructure, which will of course cause massive civilian casualties, as it has done.
"Lebanese infrastructure was targeted" (Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev, source BBC)

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

This topic has been done to death.

It has been covered quite a lot - because it is important and Israel have acted illegally and irresponsibly, again. They also lost.

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

dude i knew this thread would piss ppl off and it obviously pissed u off.. Im just jotting down my opinion and wotever u sqy u wont be able to change it.. Fiirst Israel have been doin it to Palestine and now Hezbollah

Your stupidity pisses me off, not the topic.

You are seriously naive

Quoted for irony.

The thing is, ur argument contradicts the facts.. look at the death toll.. more IDF soldiers r killed than civillians and more Lebanese civillians are killied than Hezbollah. yes Hezbollah do hide amongst civillians but wouldnt that make Israel extra cautious on what they drop artillery on

mafia996630 wrote:

Fancy_Pollux your sig pisses me off. CNN suks, use WIKI:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties … n_conflict

Thnku

if you don't have a rank/serial number/and uniform
if you dress up in civilian clothes to fight your "enemy"
if you target cizilian populations while forcing yours to stay in the way of incoming fire

you are a terrorist you don't have any rights and the geniva convention doesn't apply to you

the Hezbollah force the lebanize to stay they aren't allowed to leave the areas that the Hezbollah are putting the missile batteries they want civialian deaths so that the israilies have a harder time defending themselves again.

the israilies have been victomized alot, just because they finally defend themselves don't make em the bad guys

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

bogo24dk wrote:

Wait a minute are you saying that if Israel as it has in 1982 invaded Lebanon. Standing up and fighting the IDF is terrorism ? And as far as i know Hezbollah isen't on the terrorist list of EU.

When those one have the right to fight his enemy ?

terrorism

n : the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimindation or coercion or instilling

http://dictionary.reference.com/search? … =0&y=0

Yes.

Note that many of you share the same OPINION that Isreal directly targets civilians. And, by directly I mean they do so indiscriminately, without confirmation or even suspicion that Hezbollah are located there. Also note that it is a FACT that Hezbollah does indiscriminately target the civilian population, as well as recklessly endangers their own civilians.

As far as i can tell, they might as well be directly targeting civilians, then at least the number will become more LOGIC.

"recklessly endangers their own civilians."

by doing wot ? blowing up roads so people cant leave ? by stopping aid reaching the civilians? by blowing up infrastructure ?

"that it is a FACT that Hezbollah does indiscriminately target the civilian population"

that true, but what do u aspect them to do ? they are not even army, they have to use under hand tactics. and isreal is just securing their future by bombing the crap out of civilians.

Last edited by mafia996630 (2006-08-25 14:22:37)

jonsimon wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

Hezbollah wont go heads up against the IDF because they would get slaughtered. Instead they attack the women and children left behind unprotected. Hezbollah picks the battlefield and they chose Lebanese neighborhoods. So tell me, who isn't concerned about who gets killed. Its the Hezzies who don't care.

But hezbollah has killed more IDF than civillians. That proves they are targeting the IDF, whether or not they are targeting civillians as well.

This only proves my point. More IDF have been killed than civilians because the IDF protects its citizens. The number of Lebonese casualties is higher than Hezbollah soldiers because they are bieng used as shields. Why can't you see that Hezbollah is using the Lebonese people as pawns. Every Islamo-fascist group uses the Israel-Palestinian conflict to attack Israel. When the truth is they don't give a rats ass about the Palestinians or Lebanese civilians for that matter.

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

bogo24dk wrote:

Wait a minute are you saying that if Israel as it has in 1982 invaded Lebanon. Standing up and fighting the IDF is terrorism ? And as far as i know Hezbollah isen't on the terrorist list of EU.

When those one have the right to fight his enemy ?

Yes.

terrorism

n : the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimindation or coercion or instilling

http://dictionary.reference.com/search? … =0&y=0


Note that many of you share the same OPINION (an uneducated one at that) that Isreal directly targets civilians. And, by directly I mean they do so indiscriminately, without confirmation or even suspicion that Hezbollah are located there. Also note that it is a FACT that Hezbollah does indiscriminately target the civilian population, as well as recklessly endangers their own civilians.

Your definition of terrorism describes both Hezbollah and the IDF exactly.
I have listed numerous reputable sources declaring that the IDF have targeted civilian infrastructure with little to no regard for Arab civilian casualties. The goals of Israel are certainly political in nature and the whole campaign is one of intimidation.

Hezbollah=IDF=Terrorists

They are both as bad as each other. But Israel should know better. Although Israel and the Zionist movement have a long history of terror campaigns (Irgun, Lehi etc.). These terror groups were in fact closely linked to the IDFs predecessor The Haganah and many of their members were integrated into the IDF at it's creation. The leader of the terror group Irgun later went on to become Israeli Prime Minister.