.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|6800

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

I dont know why I keep trying to explain the MOST BASIC elements of combat to those who refuse to understand.  You dont approach your enemy with kid gloves. you dont water down your offensive for the sake of civility. this is modern warfare, where your ability to inflict as much damage to your designated enemy is the only factor that matters.
So you recon you should just nuke the whole country then? If that's the only factor then nukes inflict the maximum damage.
HM1{N}
Member
+86|6615|East Coast via Los Angeles, CA

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

If you would like your grandmother's home bulldozed with her in it, your dad shot in the head for trying to buy groceries, and your brother's arm's held out away from his body while IDF soldiers break them with rocks, then I say move to Palestine.  The Israelis have no problem killing and maiming you and your family so they can take your land and build a settlement on it.

Put that on a bumper sticker.
or you could strap a vest full of explosives and find the nearest israeli  elementary school to send little tiny bits and peice of children to allah.



dont be naive dude.  fucking a, you make it seem like the palestanians are peaceful little ewoks living in their happy enchanted villages. get real.  the shit you described happens to those that support offensive activities against israel and its citizens.
You are the one being naive.  Can you blame them for blowing themselves up in Israel?  I mean, come-the-fuck-on, Israel has been illegally occupying their land for 40+ years, taking more and more of it everyday.  You don't seem to get it, if China came to the U.S. and occupied it, why would we be called terrorists for fighting back by blowing ourselves up in a Chinese sweat shop?

I really wish I could beat you with a "see the truth" stick, because you are so blinded by what Israel is really doing.  You, like most of the rest of the Western world, are Israels lapdog.  Please wake up and take a look at what they are doing.  They are the biggest terrorists in the world.
HM1{N}
Member
+86|6615|East Coast via Los Angeles, CA

Bubbalo wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

"Disproportionate" and "use of force" shouldn't be put in the same sentence when you're talking about war.
What if the setence also has "dead" and "civilians"?  Or "fleeing" and "enemies"?  Or "after" and "attempts to surrender"?
You would be describing Israel's daily-deeds.

Wait, you forgot:

"shot in the back"
"imprisoned without caused"
"tortured"
"starved"
"denied a home"

feel free to add to the list, I only started it.
HM1{N}
Member
+86|6615|East Coast via Los Angeles, CA

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

"fleeing enemy" = future combatant

"attempts to surrender" =attempts to draw into an ambush

"dead civilians" = sad to say, collateral damage.

I dont know why I keep trying to explain the MOST BASIC elements of combat to those who refuse to understand.  You dont approach your enemy with kid gloves. you dont water down your offensive for the sake of civility. this is modern warfare, where your ability to inflict as much damage to your designated enemy is the only factor that matters. 


"fleeing enemy"  lol.....


"grab the white flag, there general is riding up to offer terms" c'mon get real and grow up.
Gee, they wouldn't have this problem if they didn't ILLEGALLY OCCUPY PALESTINE, now would they?

Since you support people who go into foreign countries and murder the occupants to steal their land and resources, let's see you start doing that on your own...I'm sure your neighbors won't mind you occupying their home and raping their daughters.
CronicjoeBlunt
Member
+5|6524|SoCal
I myself did not vote to make US the world police, that said we are stuck in it now until they can get their own crap under control. If we leave too soon now and it goes bad you know everybody is gonna pointing right to the Northern area when the "whos to Blame" part starts. No question the things that were done were bad but the stupidest thing Bush did is lie about why we went in, and not well I might add.
CronicjoeBlunt
Member
+5|6524|SoCal
PS we'd do well to focus a lot more on our own issues within our borders and let the rest of the world handle their own bs for a while. If we keep pushing our wieght around somebody is gonna push back and we aren't gonna like it.
CronicjoeBlunt
Member
+5|6524|SoCal

HM1{N} wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

"Disproportionate" and "use of force" shouldn't be put in the same sentence when you're talking about war.
What if the setence also has "dead" and "civilians"?  Or "fleeing" and "enemies"?  Or "after" and "attempts to surrender"?
You would be describing Israel's daily-deeds.

Wait, you forgot:

"shot in the back"
"imprisoned without caused"
"tortured"
"starved"
"denied a home"

feel free to add to the list, I only started it.
They need to just say"your jew, we're not and find away to get along cause I thinking neither side is gonna be dropping of the face of the earth anytime soon. Yea I know, yea that will happen, but it sure would make things alot simpler wouldn't it??
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6686

HM1{N} wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

"fleeing enemy" = future combatant

"attempts to surrender" =attempts to draw into an ambush

"dead civilians" = sad to say, collateral damage.

I dont know why I keep trying to explain the MOST BASIC elements of combat to those who refuse to understand.  You dont approach your enemy with kid gloves. you dont water down your offensive for the sake of civility. this is modern warfare, where your ability to inflict as much damage to your designated enemy is the only factor that matters. 


"fleeing enemy"  lol.....


"grab the white flag, there general is riding up to offer terms" c'mon get real and grow up.
Gee, they wouldn't have this problem if they didn't ILLEGALLY OCCUPY PALESTINE, now would they?

Since you support people who go into foreign countries and murder the occupants to steal their land and resources, let's see you start doing that on your own...I'm sure your neighbors won't mind you occupying their home and raping their daughters.
Palestine were one of the first to attack israel... israel gets bombed and attack every month... if that happens to the US, i think a lot of nation would be under american control
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
EVieira
Member
+105|6449|Lutenblaag, Molvania

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

Palestine were one of the first to attack israel... Israel gets bombed and attack every month... if that happens to the US, i think a lot of nation would be under american control
Israel is occupying Palestine. They have more and fences and checkpoints than cold-war era Belarus, keeping the Palestinians "where they belong." Its their own fault their getting bombed. I hate terrorists, but Israel could do a lot more to appease the situation in the Middle East.
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
CronicjoeBlunt
Member
+5|6524|SoCal

HM1{N} wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

If you would like your grandmother's home bulldozed with her in it, your dad shot in the head for trying to buy groceries, and your brother's arm's held out away from his body while IDF soldiers break them with rocks, then I say move to Palestine.  The Israelis have no problem killing and maiming you and your family so they can take your land and build a settlement on it.

Put that on a bumper sticker.
or you could strap a vest full of explosives and find the nearest israeli  elementary school to send little tiny bits and peice of children to allah.



dont be naive dude.  fucking a, you make it seem like the palestanians are peaceful little ewoks living in their happy enchanted villages. get real.  the shit you described happens to those that support offensive activities against israel and its citizens.
You are the one being naive.  Can you blame them for blowing themselves up in Israel?  I mean, come-the-fuck-on, Israel has been illegally occupying their land for 40+ years, taking more and more of it everyday.  You don't seem to get it, if China came to the U.S. and occupied it, why would we be called terrorists for fighting back by blowing ourselves up in a Chinese sweat shop?

I really wish I could beat you with a "see the truth" stick, because you are so blinded by what Israel is really doing.  You, like most of the rest of the Western world, are Israels lapdog.  Please wake up and take a look at what they are doing.  They are the biggest terrorists in the world.
Not to disrespect your opinion but I was told by someone from Jordan that everything they are and have is bought by the US and if not for that they would be nothing. It is true that they receive alot of aid from the US. It them who buy what they have with it otherwise they be flying US built planes and not UK built harriers and mirrage 2000s. But our dumasses shell out billions to everyone and get told to get the F@%K out after the check is cashed.

The reality is that the view is very distorted on both sides and the Israeli boardards were drawn up by someone of Turkesh descent. It is simply this, a religon war in which both beliefs fundamentally preach the same ideas in the name of two different Iconic figures. Ala, GOD, what does it matter who said it, focus on the message  and not the messenger. Is it like saying your, black or White versus just saying "I am human, what race are you?"  If we all claimed our race as human there wouldn't be much good to be racsist anymore.

Our response is usually, ok, call me if you need more, K? You tell me how the hell someone thought that was a good idea. We should be doing nothing unless asked to and then tell them ok, but you are now part of US, cool? at least then if they said ok it was of their own choice.

right now it is like here let me buy your loyality, I'm waiting for them to just start saying " so what's it gonna cost for you to be my friend?" I know one of the first things I learn as a kid was you cannot buy real friends.

If that is how they think we should do it, maybe Alien Funt should be our Preisdent, would probably be one of our best.

All terroists are extremists, no matter who their god is, and it is their extreme actions that we need to focus on not the excuse they use to do it. What is Jehad now could just as easy turn into Jews, Chirstians, buddas the next time some waco gets a bright idea, case in point KKK, corn feed inbreeding idiots who act in the name of Christ if you ask them. Just thank god they are to stupid to get organized or we might be hereing HEEHAW not  JEHAD, now that is scarry...

Last edited by CronicjoeBlunt (2006-08-24 04:40:40)

HM1{N}
Member
+86|6615|East Coast via Los Angeles, CA

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

"fleeing enemy" = future combatant

"attempts to surrender" =attempts to draw into an ambush

"dead civilians" = sad to say, collateral damage.

I dont know why I keep trying to explain the MOST BASIC elements of combat to those who refuse to understand.  You dont approach your enemy with kid gloves. you dont water down your offensive for the sake of civility. this is modern warfare, where your ability to inflict as much damage to your designated enemy is the only factor that matters. 


"fleeing enemy"  lol.....


"grab the white flag, there general is riding up to offer terms" c'mon get real and grow up.
Gee, they wouldn't have this problem if they didn't ILLEGALLY OCCUPY PALESTINE, now would they?

Since you support people who go into foreign countries and murder the occupants to steal their land and resources, let's see you start doing that on your own...I'm sure your neighbors won't mind you occupying their home and raping their daughters.
Palestine were one of the first to attack israel... israel gets bombed and attack every month... if that happens to the US, i think a lot of nation would be under american control
Huh?  Where do you get your facts from?

Israel ILLEGALLY occupies Palestine with an Army.  Think this through, the Israeli Army has invaded a foreign country and occupied it for over 4 decades, all so they can annex the land.  The U.N. has told them REPEATEDLY to get the hell out for 4 decades.

How in the fuck does that equate to Palestine first attacked Israel???

Israel exists because the Israelis MURDERED THE PALESTINIANS AND STOLE THEIR LAND.
Dersmikner
Member
+147|6468|Texas
HM{1}, from whence do you hail?
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6655|United States of America

HM1{N} wrote:

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:


Gee, they wouldn't have this problem if they didn't ILLEGALLY OCCUPY PALESTINE, now would they?

Since you support people who go into foreign countries and murder the occupants to steal their land and resources, let's see you start doing that on your own...I'm sure your neighbors won't mind you occupying their home and raping their daughters.
Palestine were one of the first to attack israel... israel gets bombed and attack every month... if that happens to the US, i think a lot of nation would be under american control
Huh?  Where do you get your facts from?

Israel ILLEGALLY occupies Palestine with an Army.  Think this through, the Israeli Army has invaded a foreign country and occupied it for over 4 decades, all so they can annex the land.  The U.N. has told them REPEATEDLY to get the hell out for 4 decades.

How in the fuck does that equate to Palestine first attacked Israel???

Israel exists because the Israelis MURDERED THE PALESTINIANS AND STOLE THEIR LAND.
Which foreign country did Israel invade?
jonsimon
Member
+224|6465

DesertFox423 wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:


Palestine were one of the first to attack israel... israel gets bombed and attack every month... if that happens to the US, i think a lot of nation would be under american control
Huh?  Where do you get your facts from?

Israel ILLEGALLY occupies Palestine with an Army.  Think this through, the Israeli Army has invaded a foreign country and occupied it for over 4 decades, all so they can annex the land.  The U.N. has told them REPEATEDLY to get the hell out for 4 decades.

How in the fuck does that equate to Palestine first attacked Israel???

Israel exists because the Israelis MURDERED THE PALESTINIANS AND STOLE THEIR LAND.
Which foreign country did Israel invade?
He said palestine in his post.

And they've also invaded Lebannon, Egypt, Jordan, and Syria(?).
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6552|SE London

DesertFox423 wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:


Palestine were one of the first to attack israel... israel gets bombed and attack every month... if that happens to the US, i think a lot of nation would be under american control
Huh?  Where do you get your facts from?

Israel ILLEGALLY occupies Palestine with an Army.  Think this through, the Israeli Army has invaded a foreign country and occupied it for over 4 decades, all so they can annex the land.  The U.N. has told them REPEATEDLY to get the hell out for 4 decades.

How in the fuck does that equate to Palestine first attacked Israel???

Israel exists because the Israelis MURDERED THE PALESTINIANS AND STOLE THEIR LAND.
Which foreign country did Israel invade?
Palestine. But it wasn't an invasion, the Zionists took a far more insidious approach than that. The Jewish settlers in the British mandate of Palestine waged an economic war against the Arabs who had previously occupied the land. They artificially inflated land and property prices, created mass Arab unemployment and refused to provide services to Arab clients (these facts were acknowledged in the report from the Hope Simpson commision (British government report)). This led to rioting by the Arabs in the region and violence on a large scale (the worst case being the Hebron massacre) against the Jewish immigrants (kind of understandable considering the economic war of attrition being waged against them - riots and protests were inevitable). The Jewish settlers fought back with terror groups targeting Arab and British targets in a mass scale bombing campaign which eventually drove the British out of Palestine and enabled the Jewish immigrants (the majority of whom had immigrated illegally) to form a government and declare themselves the new state of Israel - with US and USSR backing this new state was soon acknowledged by the UN under the partition plan of 1947.

The Israelis took the land through economic oppression and later a devastating terror regime. Many of the terrorist leaders became members of the government and the head of the terror group Irgun later became Israeli prime minister.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6614

HM1{N} wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

If you would like your grandmother's home bulldozed with her in it, your dad shot in the head for trying to buy groceries, and your brother's arm's held out away from his body while IDF soldiers break them with rocks, then I say move to Palestine.  The Israelis have no problem killing and maiming you and your family so they can take your land and build a settlement on it.

Put that on a bumper sticker.
or you could strap a vest full of explosives and find the nearest israeli  elementary school to send little tiny bits and peice of children to allah.



dont be naive dude.  fucking a, you make it seem like the palestanians are peaceful little ewoks living in their happy enchanted villages. get real.  the shit you described happens to those that support offensive activities against israel and its citizens.
You are the one being naive.  Can you blame them for blowing themselves up in Israel?  I mean, come-the-fuck-on, Israel has been illegally occupying their land for 40+ years, taking more and more of it everyday.  You don't seem to get it, if China came to the U.S. and occupied it, why would we be called terrorists for fighting back by blowing ourselves up in a Chinese sweat shop?

I really wish I could beat you with a "see the truth" stick, because you are so blinded by what Israel is really doing.  You, like most of the rest of the Western world, are Israels lapdog.  Please wake up and take a look at what they are doing.  They are the biggest terrorists in the world.
so then you are condoning the death of civilians as long as theyre israeli.  typical one-sided extremist view....asshole
Aust1mh
Member
+23|6539|Sydney, Australia
I don't care about other peoples wars... our people got out thanks to the govenment.... let them go that it!
HM1{N}
Member
+86|6615|East Coast via Los Angeles, CA

Dersmikner wrote:

HM{1}, from whence do you hail?
Originally, Los Angeles California.  Now I live on the East Coast.
HM1{N}
Member
+86|6615|East Coast via Los Angeles, CA

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

or you could strap a vest full of explosives and find the nearest israeli  elementary school to send little tiny bits and peice of children to allah.



dont be naive dude.  fucking a, you make it seem like the palestanians are peaceful little ewoks living in their happy enchanted villages. get real.  the shit you described happens to those that support offensive activities against israel and its citizens.
You are the one being naive.  Can you blame them for blowing themselves up in Israel?  I mean, come-the-fuck-on, Israel has been illegally occupying their land for 40+ years, taking more and more of it everyday.  You don't seem to get it, if China came to the U.S. and occupied it, why would we be called terrorists for fighting back by blowing ourselves up in a Chinese sweat shop?


I really wish I could beat you with a "see the truth" stick, because you are so blinded by what Israel is really doing.  You, like most of the rest of the Western world, are Israels lapdog.  Please wake up and take a look at what they are doing.  They are the biggest terrorists in the world.
so then you are condoning the death of civilians as long as theyre israeli.  typical one-sided extremist view....asshole
What????

Where did I say I condoned what they did?  I can certainly sympathize with them, but not condone their actions.

Fact of the matter is this: Israel has brought it on themselves and they deserve whatever they get until they abide by International law.

If the rest of the world has to abide by it, why should Israel be any different?

Oh, and thanks for the name calling, you are really mature.

Since you obviously aren't objective enough to see the truth about your beloved Israel, I offer this link to a NON ZIONIST INFLUENCED news agency:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5276626.stm

This just adds to the list of Israeli crimes against humanity.

Last edited by HM1{N} (2006-08-24 15:03:16)

Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6552|SE London

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:


or you could strap a vest full of explosives and find the nearest israeli  elementary school to send little tiny bits and peice of children to allah.



dont be naive dude.  fucking a, you make it seem like the palestanians are peaceful little ewoks living in their happy enchanted villages. get real.  the shit you described happens to those that support offensive activities against israel and its citizens.
You are the one being naive.  Can you blame them for blowing themselves up in Israel?  I mean, come-the-fuck-on, Israel has been illegally occupying their land for 40+ years, taking more and more of it everyday.  You don't seem to get it, if China came to the U.S. and occupied it, why would we be called terrorists for fighting back by blowing ourselves up in a Chinese sweat shop?

I really wish I could beat you with a "see the truth" stick, because you are so blinded by what Israel is really doing.  You, like most of the rest of the Western world, are Israels lapdog.  Please wake up and take a look at what they are doing.  They are the biggest terrorists in the world.
so then you are condoning the death of civilians as long as theyre israeli.  typical one-sided extremist view....asshole
Israel formed terrorist groups to attack the Arabs and British in Palestine even before Israel was a state. Ever heard of Irgun or Lehi - even the Haganah (now the IDF) backed the zionist terror strikes.

What about the rights of the Arabs not to endure oppression. When the Jewish immigrants to Palestine faced adversity they formed terror groups - if that is acceptable (which it is not), then by the same logic the Arabs in the region forming terror groups to fight their Israeli oppressors is also acceptable.

For people who complain about how Israelis have to endure terror attacks - bear in mind that the Israelis initiated the cycle of terrorism in the region.
Dersmikner
Member
+147|6468|Texas
You realize of course then that you are almost certainly not a member of a race indigneous to either area, and your people beat, raped, maimed and killed to own the land on which you reside...

I was wondering when you were going to give up your land to an American Indian.   ;-)
starman7
Member
+15|6695
As for the "carpet bombing" and "massive destruction", all it is is that Lebanon has many fragile, unsturdy, unsafe buildings which collapsed because Israel underestimated the effect of their bombs.  In developed countries such as the US, a 500-pound bomb would not collapse a quarter of buildings that have in Lebanon, due to shitty building.  And yes, Hezbollah HAS REPEATEDLY used civillian buildings as cover.  Not to mention that BBC has lost all respect from me by them saying that Israel has broken international law (and Europe really has to grow some balls.  They will only learn when the Katyushas fall on Paris).  A, so long as the military gain is proportional to the collateral damage, striking a target and accidentally killing civillians is accepted under international law.  What is not acceptable is striking indiscriminately, and channeling civillians near a military target for the purpose of making said target immune to attack.  Hezbollah has broken both laws.

Hezbollah is supported by Iran and Syria.  Both are radical Islamic countries which preach a doctrine of hate.  Both countries have repeatedly tried to destroy Israel.  Israel has tried and tried for peace with their Islamic neighbors and militant groups for the past 50 years.  The "occupied" territories are right-of-conquest from wars that Arab countries started, and mostly serve as buffer zones, shielding the heart of Israel.

EDIT: Oh, and 90% of the resources in or near Israel were created, built out of a desert with the sweat of the people.  You see nothing like that in the Arab countries, some of whose economies depend entirely upon oil.

Last edited by starman7 (2006-08-24 15:39:00)

Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6552|SE London

Dersmikner wrote:

You realize of course then that you are almost certainly not a member of a race indigneous to either area, and your people beat, raped, maimed and killed to own the land on which you reside...

I was wondering when you were going to give up your land to an American Indian.   ;-)
The US government have acknowledged that the way the Indians were treated was wrong and pay them reparations. I am all in favour of a simillar system being implemented in Palestine.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6512|Texas - Bigger than France

Bertster7 wrote:

Dersmikner wrote:

You realize of course then that you are almost certainly not a member of a race indigneous to either area, and your people beat, raped, maimed and killed to own the land on which you reside...

I was wondering when you were going to give up your land to an American Indian.   ;-)
The US government have acknowledged that the way the Indians were treated was wrong and pay them reparations. I am all in favour of a simillar system being implemented in Palestine.
That's probably the only way out of it.

I don't think the US should pay though [/poor attempt at humor]

Last edited by Pug (2006-08-24 15:48:58)

Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6552|SE London

starman7 wrote:

As for the "carpet bombing" and "massive destruction", all it is is that Lebanon has many fragile, unsturdy, unsafe buildings which collapsed because Israel underestimated the effect of their bombs.  In developed countries such as the US, a 500-pound bomb would not collapse a quarter of buildings that have in Lebanon, due to shitty building.  And yes, Hezbollah HAS REPEATEDLY used civillian buildings as cover.  Not to mention that BBC has lost all respect from me by them saying that Israel has broken international law (and Europe really has to grow some balls.  They will only learn when the Katyushas fall on Paris).  A, so long as the military gain is proportional to the collateral damage, striking a target and accidentally killing civillians is accepted under international law.  What is not acceptable is striking indiscriminately, and channeling civillians near a military target for the purpose of making said target immune to attack.  Hezbollah has broken both laws.

Hezbollah is supported by Iran and Syria.  Both are radical Islamic countries which preach a doctrine of hate.  Both countries have repeatedly tried to destroy Israel.  Israel has tried and tried for peace with their Islamic neighbors and militant groups for the past 50 years.  The "occupied" territories are right-of-conquest from wars that Arab countries started, and mostly serve as buffer zones, shielding the heart of Israel.

EDIT: Oh, and 90% of the resources in or near Israel were created, built out of a desert with the sweat of the people.  You see nothing like that in the Arab countries, some of whose economies depend entirely upon oil.
You've lost all respect for the BBC because they reported the truth? Israel did break international law - not for the first time either. Israel has violated more UN resolutions than any other nation in the world.

Europe have to grow some balls? Is that why the French and Italians are going into Lebannon to sort out the mess the Israelis couldn't?

The IDF did not specifically target Hezbollah positions - that is what I have a problem with. The rockets were not located in buildings, so why did they strike at so many buildings? Why did they target (according to surces within the IDF) airports, bridges and on one occasion even a hospital?
If the Israelis were so effective at taking out the launch sites, how is it that the number of rocket attacks went up as the Israeli attacks continued?

The answer is simple - the IDF did not target the Hezbollah launch sites, situated in remote, high up locations - not in towns or buildings (have you seen the size of a Katyusha?) - The IDF targeted Lebanese infrastructure. The attack was motivated by revenge against the Lebanese people rather than trying to incapacitate Hezbollah.

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