BF2S Forums Okay, let's go at it like this:

fadedsteve wrote:

Also the UN issues a FORMAL APOLOGY to the Palestinian people as well, because it was their oversight that has caused all this mess in that region of the world.

Except that the UN then consisted of 50 nations, and IIRC at least 13 of them (all from the Middle East) voted against it.  Individual countries should make the apologies, instead.

Dersmikner wrote:

I'm straight fucking confused, aside from being half shitty.

Are some of you saying that these terrorists flew planes into the World Trade Center, but the buildings collapsed because our government had planted bombs there because they knew the terrorists would fly planes into the buildings and we could bring down the buildings killing our own people and givie ourselves a reason to attack the Muslim world,

OR

are you saying that the Muslims attacked the buildings because they were storehouses for a bunch of weapons that exploded when the planes hit the buildings,

OR

are you saying that there were no terrorists involved and we flew planes into our own buildings, which were loaded with explosives, so we would have a reason to go to war?

I'm your basic non-believer, and I'm a skeptic, and I'm NEVER one to believe the government, but if you people are saying that anything other than terrorists flying big ass jets full of cross-country fuel loads are what brought down the World Trade Center buildings and killed my friend Kerry, I'm going to have to say you are a bunch of mindless fuckwads who probably think we're actually living in the Matrix.

read this, the part where they prove the presence of thermite.
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html

sulfidized steel from thermite reactions
http://www.911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evi … index.html

Thermite reaction: molten steel
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … net+9%2F11
another thermite reaction:
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.h5.jpg
molten aluminum, the official stated explanation for pools of yellow hot molten metals in and falling from the buildings.  Notice no vapors and no heat coloration
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/ene … ouring.jpg
Jet fuel does not burn hot enough to melt structural steel, and it produces a thick black smoke while burning in the buildings.  Thermite does not produce smoke, burns at over 3000 degrees, producing liquid metal instead.   Liquid molten metal was being removed from ground zero 6 weeks after the tragedy.  The only way this is possible is with a thermite like reaction.  Falling objects do not produce heat like that.

Last edited by Spumantiii (2006-08-17 07:55:31)

Kmarion wrote:

What's easier for the goverment, plant a wmd in the desert, or attack it's country and kill 3,000 ppl in front of the world to justify a war?

It's actually easier to attack one's own country and kill 3,000 people, for whatever reason - western goverments can do anything they want within their own borders.

Planting something like a stockpile of weapons inside another country, particularly one that already has 'issues' with you, is extremely difficult in comparison.

Pug wrote:

aardfrith wrote:

Declare peace on Islam.  Cut out all military spending on new weapons.  Stop sending weapons abroad.  Bring all the US troops home from the Middle and Far East.

Rebrand the units who have been called home as "humanitarian assistance teams" or HATs for short.  I know Americans like TLAs as much as anyone, so it's bound to go down well.

From all the money that has been saved on the military, give a quarter of it to the US health service - build new Meidcare hospitals and medical centres.  God knows I know how much medicine costs.  With the remaining billions of dollars, buy food, blankets, and distribute them to the Islamic countries that the terrorists reside in.  Build new homes, mosques, etc. for the people. DON'T PUT BUGS IN THEM!!!!

Basically, build bridges, not weapons.

A few comments:
1) Why should the US pay medicare for another country?
2) Why not build their economy to make them self-sufficient?
3) Aren't we trying to rebuild Iraq...and they keep fighting?
4) How does this stop the current extremists? - This works for the future generations, not now.

Basically I believe a handout is nice, but self sufficiency is better.  But then we can't get the people in Iraq to let us provide this assistance...

That's pretty frustrating.

Yes, it is frustrating.  However, it would win a shit-load more friends than trying to bomb them back to the stone age like most other people on this thread would like.  Anyway, the enemy are not the millions (billions?) of normal muslims in the world so why turn them against you.  If you lavish kindness on them, they'll be more willing to give up the radical terrorist element than turn against you.

To answer the specific comments:

1) I never said pay medicare for another country.  I said furnish them with food, blankets and shelters.  I said provide more medicare for the US as well.
2) That should come as a natural result.
3) Iraq started with an invasion, ousting the government, putting in what could be seen as a puppet-government and a lot of general ill-feeling.  I think it's basically a lost cause already and you're never going to win the people over.  The sooner an excuse can be made to get people out of there, the better for all concerned.
4) Okay, I accept this isn't going to put the USA on every radical's Christmas Card list immediately.  A lot of people have a lot of things to be pissed off at Uncle Sam for.  I don't think there's anything that can be done to appease them immediately but changing the foreign policy would go a long way.

aardfrith wrote:

To answer the specific comments:

1) I never said pay medicare for another country.  I said furnish them with food, blankets and shelters.  I said provide more medicare for the US as well.
2) That should come as a natural result.
3) Iraq started with an invasion, ousting the government, putting in what could be seen as a puppet-government and a lot of general ill-feeling.  I think it's basically a lost cause already and you're never going to win the people over.  The sooner an excuse can be made to get people out of there, the better for all concerned.
4) Okay, I accept this isn't going to put the USA on every radical's Christmas Card list immediately.  A lot of people have a lot of things to be pissed off at Uncle Sam for.  I don't think there's anything that can be done to appease them immediately but changing the foreign policy would go a long way.

Agree with you. 
OOOPS - I thought you meant US fund Mideast medicare...

Sometimes I think it would have been better if we had just kidnapped Sadaam and put him in the witness relocation program/fake his death.  Let the cards fall where they may...

"Hey Vito...did you meet the new neighbor...Sadaam?  I think he's from the Midwest...Ohio or something".

If there were even hint of truth to it Soros would have spent zillions to uncover it and get his boy elected to the White House.

Kmarion wrote:

Wow it's that easy, just fly a couple planes into some buildings.
Forget about making a whole plane disappear with it's passengers.

I didn't say anything about making a whole plane disappear. Agents hijack passenger plane. Agents fly passenger plane into building. If you're going to kill 3000 people, the couple of hundred that are in the plane are insignificant (of course, no life is 'insignificant', but if one were planning such an attrocity, then in that mindset they are).

Kmarion wrote:

FBI agents,demolitions experts,CIA,rescue workers,airline pilots,air traffic control, and an entire Presidents administration would all have to have no sense of human moral to say something.

That's the point - you don't tell any of those people - you just do it - about the only people that need to be involved are the military or a paramilitary group.

And don't think that any government is morally incapable of such acts. If you do then you need to learn some more about the history of both the US and UK governments, amongst others, and the things they have done in the past for 'the good of the people'.

Now, don't get the idea that I think this is actually what happened - I don't know what actually happened - but, what I do know is this is not beyond the realms of possibility and therefore must be given due consideration.

Last edited by Scorpion0x17 (2006-08-17 12:09:28)

Ok the disappearing plane would be the one that hit the pentagon with all of the disappearing pilots.
I guess we forget about the all the phone calls that were being made to loved ones while they were being hijacked. All the survivng members of the victims must be so happy that they lie about that so they falsify phone records.
http://www.miami.com/mld/mercurynews/ne … 332607.htm

You can talk chemistry all you wan't but you overlook the most obvious fact. At some point you are going to have to talk about motivation. Are you going to say that the brits are making up this entire terrorist plot that just recently happened?

You need to learn how to discern. I can read everything you wrote, check the links and research and say "yes that is odd" and possibly look more into it. But how in the hell do you ignore Voice cockpit recorders.
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/images/04/1 … script.pdf

Or how about all the evidence brought in the Moussaoui trial.

http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecas … ution.html

that, is another argument entirely.  I was trying to prove that wtc is not what it seemed.  I'm not sure what to think about the pentagon plane, although the computer version looks convincing.