Pages: 1

 

2006-08-14 21:28:28
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6939|NJ
Are the threats comming from Iran against Isreal, or is it against the Jews in generally?

My thoughts on this are if the threats are only about Isreal then it's a non rasisct pollitical threat, that Isreal should not be able to spin into an other "Holocost" vision. If you really think about it, it's actually a valid point that he is making because Isreal is not the best neighbor in the area, there soldiers kill innocent people on a day to day basis. They're the only country there who gets support without any interferance from the world, and as far as I know have the best property in the region which used to be Arab Land.



If it's actually towards Jewish people in general then it is a really messed up thought because the extinction of one race or another should not be tolerated anywhere or anyhow.  But a country made up of mostly Jews isn't a Jewish country it's a country for it's citizens all of them, just because the majority of a population is Jewish it wouldn't make it right for them to have Muslim slaves would it?

Thanks give me your opionins on this theory, sorry about the spelling I'm kinda tired.
2006-08-14 21:31:19
xX[Elangbam]Xx
Member
+107|6940
correct, i see the Jewish people (let alone the other ppl killed in the Holocaust) completely different from the Jewish people that live in Israel.
2006-08-14 22:00:44
OpsChief
Member
+101|6919|Southern California
If you search the term "Jewish State" you will get around 30,000 articles that say Israel. I see the semantic value of your argument, defining specifically the basis for conflict but it ends there in a convolusion of public relations people telling us "perception is reality".

The argument about who owns the land must be viewed with one eye on history and the other on this question: Is there any piece of ground on Earth that has the same country name, borders of and still run by and controlled by the original inhabitants of 5k, 10k, or more years ago? Some arguably may have one or two but none have it all.

No people have a right to keep slaves but how does that play into Arab/Israeli relations? I don't follow.

People tend to coexist peacefully until greed gets a foot in the door.
2006-08-14 22:04:48
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6886
Iran is responsible for babies crying and dogs running away
2006-08-14 22:06:52
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6939|NJ
Well my understanding of Isreal is that it is not a Zionest state so it isn't govern by the Jews. There are muslims and christians living there as well, so when threats are made at the country it should not be perceived as a threat to the Jewish people. It needs to be address as it is, not spun into a wipe jews off the face of this planet because there has been no direct threat to the jews(I might be wrong on that forget the context).
2006-08-14 22:19:12
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6772|Global Command
You are proof that human beings need something to hate. Just like most the other Israel bashing lunkards here.
2006-08-14 22:28:56
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6939|NJ
Ok and counter point now?
2006-08-14 22:32:12
OpsChief
Member
+101|6919|Southern California
ATG I think Fass is trying to get to why people form blanket stereotype perceptions, sometimes resulting in a technically incorrect belief. This Zion/Jewish/Israel topic is damn difficult to straddle. Its a good exercise to define a problem before trying to understand or solve it.

Who does it serve to shout someone down who is trying to gain understanding instead of learning reactionary hate? At least he is asking questions and not making accusations.

Last edited by OpsChief (2006-08-14 22:38:17)

2006-08-14 23:46:19
PRiMACORD
Member
+190|6868|Home of the Escalade Herds

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Are the threats comming from Iran against Isreal, or is it against the Jews in generally?

My thoughts on this are if the threats are only about Isreal then it's a non rasisct pollitical threat, that Isreal should not be able to spin into an other "Holocost" vision. If you really think about it, it's actually a valid point that he is making because Isreal is not the best neighbor in the area, there soldiers kill innocent people on a day to day basis. They're the only country there who gets support without any interferance from the world, and as far as I know have the best property in the region which used to be Arab Land.



If it's actually towards Jewish people in general then it is a really messed up thought because the extinction of one race or another should not be tolerated anywhere or anyhow.  But a country made up of mostly Jews isn't a Jewish country it's a country for it's citizens all of them, just because the majority of a population is Jewish it wouldn't make it right for them to have Muslim slaves would it?

Thanks give me your opionins on this theory, sorry about the spelling I'm kinda tired.
There are more jews in the US then there are in Israel. If Iran wanted to wipe out all jews they would have spoke of attacking us first.

They didn't of course, they just want Israel.


ATG wrote:

You are proof that human beings need something to hate. Just like most the other Israel bashing lunkards here.
So the truth = bashing?
2006-08-14 23:59:20
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6889

PRiMACORD wrote:

ATG wrote:

You are proof that human beings need something to hate. Just like most the other Israel bashing lunkards here.
So the truth = bashing?
Not bashing. He makes a very good point.
2006-08-15 07:59:06
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6939|NJ
Not bashing Isreal at all?? I didn't say a negative thing about them but in order to find a solution you have to come to common ground at what the real problem is.
2006-08-15 08:26:43
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6798
Some facts:

By various estimates, between 11,000 and 40,000 (most sources say 25,000) Jews live in Iran, mostly in Tehran, Isfahan and Hamedan.

With some exceptions, there is little restriction of or interference with the Jewish religious practice.

In 2002, the law was passed that made the amount of "blood money" (diyeh) paid by a perpetrator for killing or wounding a Christian, Jew, or Zoroastrian man the same as it would be for killing or wounding a Muslim.

Jews in Iran are not allowed to communicate with Jewish groups outside of Iran unless the group is opposed to the existence of Israel, such as Neturei Kara.

So basically it's like this - Jews in Iran suffer the same discrimination as people who practice any other religion (it is an Islamic Republic after all). Laws have been passed that brought certain aspects of the law for non-muslims into line with muslims - hardly picking on Jews in particular (by exempting them, etc.). Iran seems to have no problem with Jews except if they seem supportive of Israel or attempt to contact pro-Israel groups. Let's face it - if Amhmedinejad's beef was with Jews then he would have had the Iranian ones eradicated by now. What this tells me is that Iran hates Israel/Zionism, not Judaism.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-08-15 08:55:13)

2006-08-15 08:50:35
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6939|NJ
which if that is the case. Then the whole muslims hate everyone thing is just BS. I'm sure there are other reliougous groups living in Isreal too, so the associationation of ISREAL=JEW is not true.
2006-08-15 08:56:03
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6798

cpt.fass1 wrote:

which if that is the case. Then the whole muslims hate everyone thing is just BS. I'm sure there are other reliougous groups living in Isreal too, so the associationation of ISREAL=JEW is not true.
Correct. Around 20% of the population of Israel is composed of Christians, Muslims and Druze (mostly muslims).
2006-08-15 08:57:58
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6939|NJ
So if you really think about it, it really changes the whole cause of the other middle east countries..
2006-08-15 08:59:49
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6798

cpt.fass1 wrote:

So if you really think about it, it really changes the whole cause of the other middle east countries..
The beef of those in the middle east is the imposition on them of an unwelcome Israeli state encompassing the third holiest shrine in Islam by forced eviction of millions of arabs. End of story.
2006-08-15 09:01:06
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6889

CameronPoe wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

So if you really think about it, it really changes the whole cause of the other middle east countries..
The beef of those in the middle east is the imposition on them of an unwelcome Israeli state encompassing the third holiest shrine in Islam by forced eviction of millions of arabs. End of story.
I was waiting for this thread to come to an end. +1
2006-08-15 19:07:10
OpsChief
Member
+101|6919|Southern California

CameronPoe wrote:

Some facts:

Jews in Iran are not allowed to communicate with Jewish groups outside of Iran unless the group is opposed to the existence of Israel, such as Neturei Kara.

So basically it's like this - Jews in Iran suffer the same discrimination as people who practice any other religion (it is an Islamic Republic after all). Laws have been passed that brought certain aspects of the law for non-muslims into line with muslims - hardly picking on Jews in particular (by exempting them, etc.). Iran seems to have no problem with Jews except if they seem supportive of Israel or attempt to contact pro-Israel groups. Let's face it - if Amhmedinejad's beef was with Jews then he would have had the Iranian ones eradicated by now. What this tells me is that Iran hates Israel/Zionism, not Judaism.
hmmm very interesting stats Poe. Why are they there? That's a very small percentage of population which makes it a curiosity to me. Are the Jews in Iran perhaps anti-current Israeli gov't, or are in that jewish sect who believe jews do not deserve a country, maybe Iranian spies or jewish missionaries? Maybe they live in the condo's surrounding the nuclear research scientists quarters?

'Jad's frequent hatemongering comments are both anti-national and anti-religious, anti-anti-anything-he-wants comments. btw I am sick of all the hatemongering speeches not just 'jad's.

btw Poe i made the comment isreal=jewish [is a perception] being perpetuated not a reality. This perception drives mindless sheep as we know.  Same as saying facist islamic terrorists - it creates a generalization and a false perception for more mindless sheep to follow.

Last edited by OpsChief (2006-08-15 19:11:12)

 

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