Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6729|Texas - Bigger than France

CameronPoe wrote:

I'd like American citizens to post the reasons they reckon people from Europe (and elsewhere) are generally disgruntled with USA at the moment. We (the rest of the world) can then iron out any misconceptions you might have. Do not post irrational garbage and do not drag this into some kind of flame war or else I'll delete the thread. I merely wish to break down any understanding barriers that might interfere with rational debate elsewhere on this forum.
Why don't you just tell us and save some time?
Smaug
This space for rent
+117|6764|Arlen, Texas
A lot of people hate Bush, but you have to remember he is NOT an elected official.
At least not legally.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6769|SE London

Snowman111 wrote:

"also if any french people read this tell me why u all seem to hate america after we saved you plenty of times ex. WWI, WWII not to mention we helped with vietnam which would have been a victory if not for the politics"


Well I am not french but... I have a prety good Idea of why we (Americans) see the french as "America Haters". It probably has something to do with our Media's poking fun at t Frances "Military Blight". France is a counrty steeped in pride and tradition... but they are also a very very progressive society. Many may see france as a week country, but in my oppinion not having to need a large standing army because of good forign relations is a truely valuble position. This lack of need for offensive troops alows france to use more of it's budget for it's countries developement. So attacking france will not solve any hate that is directed towards the U.S. Oh and one more thing while I am on this role. Most americans who travel to france go only to Pairis, which is primarily a tourist town. Because of this they french people in Pairis have a pre formulated image of each and every tourist from the good ol red white and blue. This image is of the fat lazzy and obnoxious american. So we may percive hate towards america as a reality and for some French people that may be a truth, but for the majority of the population I must say that they can't be angrey w/ the whole U.S.
"not having to need a large standing army because of good forign relations is a truely valuble position. This lack of need for offensive troops alows france to use more of it's budget for it's countries developement."

France have the largest army in Europe.

"we saved you plenty of times ex. WWI, WWII not to mention we helped with vietnam"

Very inaccurate - WWI the US were hardly involved at all, they provided artillery and naval support to the British and French but refused to provide reinforcements - unless you were black, in which case you'd be shipped off to the French frontlines. - WWII the US stayed out of until the last minute, but were very helpful when they did get involved - Vietnam???? The French were long gone by the time the US did anything in Vietnam. The communist gorvernment (which is what the US went into Vietnam to overthrow) was only established after the departure of the French.

"every tourist from the good ol red white and blue"

https://tinypic.com/dzfsxy.jpg
Dersmikner
Member
+147|6685|Texas
I've been in Europe and I didn't meet anyone who didn't have good things to say to me. It was all "hey cowboy we love Texas" and "how-dee American". I loved it. Great time. I will say that the people in the Frankfurt bad scene were mostly tools, but the rest of Germany, Austria, Switzerland, all cool people. Eschewed France by choice.

I'll also say that the Europeans who have immigrated here can't wait to tell you how great Europe is. Jesus I'm sick of hearing how much history they have and how everything short of baseball was invented in Europe and soccer is king and how all culture that exists is owed to Europe. Goddamn those people are arrogant. And yet, they are in America looking for jobs. Anyway...

As to the "how old are you, the popular people I knew are all losers" question posed to me before, I'm 38 (pushing 39 in a big way) and I'd say that though I haven't lived up to my world-domination goals and potential, I own a good sized company that pays 100% of the health insurance for all of my employees (not spouses or kids), I own a few cars, a small ranch, graduated from college and do well...
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6729|Texas - Bigger than France
Simple question - if we are universally hated, why does the US lead in immigration every year?

The point - Are we really bad enough not to visit or not to live here? Or do the opportunities outweigh these issues, and wouldn't that make these people lack conviction?

The other question - do you think we do not know the answer to your question already? ...It's because you're gay.


Just kidding, seriously we do know these issues already.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6742

Pug wrote:

Simple question - if we are universally hated, why does the US lead in immigration every year?

The point - Are we really bad enough not to visit or not to live here? Or do the opportunities outweigh these issues, and wouldn't that make these people lack conviction?

The other question - do you think we do not know the answer to your question already? ...It's because you're gay.


Just kidding, seriously we do know these issues already.
Pug - get over yourself! The US are not universally hated. Learn to differentiate between 'hating something in its totality' and 'hating certain aspects of something'. There's a misconception right there: "we are universally hated". I am an outspoken critic of aspects of USA but I've been there several times, enjoyed my stays there and admire certain aspects of the US.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-08-15 08:32:58)

Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6833

Pug wrote:

Simple question - if we are universally hated, why does the US lead in immigration every year?
I think it's more of a blind hatred. The same kind you see from Muslim fanatics holding up signs that say "death to liberty", "death to freedom", "behead all Americans", etc. The overwhelming majority of people, simply put, are stupid and are willing to follow any idea like sheep. Hell, that is the only reason why Bush is in power today. Every stereotypical illiterate redneck and their uncle (which unfortunately make up the base of the U.S.'s population) jumped on the "Kerry is a flip-flopper" bandwagon without really knowing why. And, ironically, those same people now dissaprove of Bush without really knowing why. To this day I still see random idiots pulled of the streets being interviewed on the local news who still think the whole war is just about oil and will even go as far to compare Bush to Hitler.

Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2006-08-15 09:01:51)

Kaosdad
Whisky Tango Foxtrot?
+201|6866|Broadlands, VA
Unfortunately, we Americans allow ourselves to elect bad leaders.  The sad fact is that less than 20% of the population regularly votes.  I think in the last election it was something closer to 14%.  So, by "majority rules" Bush was elected by 8% of the population!  Ignorance & Apathy!

What we need to do is to be able to separate "hating Current American Policy" from the Country "America" and the American People.

With that being said I think the main topics have been covered:

1) Saying one thing, doing the opposite
2) Wasteful Ignorance
3) Some cases of "thumbing our nose" t teh international community, then expecting the International Community to "behave" by our standards

Other than that - come on over and let's have a beer or six!
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6729|Texas - Bigger than France

CameronPoe wrote:

Pug - get over yourself! The US are not universally hated. Learn to differentiate between 'hating something in its totality' and 'hating certain aspects of something'. There's a misconception right there: "we are universally hated". I am an outspoken critic of aspects of USA but I've been there several times, enjoyed my stays there and admire certain aspects of the US.
Yes, I know that...but it's hard to tell when you wake up and see a post "Tells us why we think you are a bunch of buttholes overseas" (or a version of this everyday?)

...how am I supposed to interpret the tone of the debate topic?  Positive?

In general I think that America bashing is hypocritical...which it looks like you made my point as well...




(Okay I'll shed some light) The US public has trouble separating criticism of gov't from criticism of the nation/people.  Therefore, one comment is generalized to all.  This is I believe because of the idealism of the democratic system...it's kinda bred into us.  This is a cultural difference between US & Europe, which is why you get slapped around at every opportunity...
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6742

Pug wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Pug - get over yourself! The US are not universally hated. Learn to differentiate between 'hating something in its totality' and 'hating certain aspects of something'. There's a misconception right there: "we are universally hated". I am an outspoken critic of aspects of USA but I've been there several times, enjoyed my stays there and admire certain aspects of the US.
Yes, I know that...but it's hard to tell when you wake up and see a post "Tells us why we think you are a bunch of buttholes overseas" (or a version of this everyday?)

...how am I supposed to interpret the tone of the debate topic?  Positive?

In general I think that America bashing is hypocritical...which it looks like you made my point as well...




(Okay I'll shed some light) The US public has trouble separating criticism of gov't from criticism of the nation/people.  Therefore, one comment is generalized to all.  This is I believe because of the idealism of the democratic system...it's kinda bred into us.  This is a cultural difference between US & Europe, which is why you get slapped around at every opportunity...
Fair enough. But if you look at the wording of the OP of this thread (and its title) you will find that this is meant to be conciliatory not flame-inducing.
Knight`UK
Lollerstorycarpark
+371|6767|England

CameronPoe wrote:

I'd like American citizens to post the reasons they reckon people from Europe (and elsewhere) are generally disgruntled with USA at the moment. We (the rest of the world) can then iron out any misconceptions you might have. Do not post irrational garbage and do not drag this into some kind of flame war or else I'll delete the thread. I merely wish to break down any understanding barriers that might interfere with rational debate elsewhere on this forum.
I always thought you hated only England ,you seem to bitch about us all the time .
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6742

Knight`UK wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I'd like American citizens to post the reasons they reckon people from Europe (and elsewhere) are generally disgruntled with USA at the moment. We (the rest of the world) can then iron out any misconceptions you might have. Do not post irrational garbage and do not drag this into some kind of flame war or else I'll delete the thread. I merely wish to break down any understanding barriers that might interfere with rational debate elsewhere on this forum.
I always thought you hated only England ,you seem to bitch about us all the time .
You are speaking in generalisations again. I detest the fact your country occupies a small part of my country but that doesn't extend to outright hatred of everything and everyone English.
golgoj4
Member
+51|6961|North Hollywood

CameronPoe wrote:

I'd like American citizens to post the reasons they reckon people from Europe (and elsewhere) are generally disgruntled with USA at the moment. We (the rest of the world) can then iron out any misconceptions you might have. Do not post irrational garbage and do not drag this into some kind of flame war or else I'll delete the thread. I merely wish to break down any understanding barriers that might interfere with rational debate elsewhere on this forum.
Same reason Im disgruntled with my own country?

-Bunch of scared Americans actually buying that the Iraq war has something to do with the war on terror. Turn off american idol and pay attention assbags!
-7 minutes Bush spent on his ass while the country is being attacked.  And the lack of followup, essential giving up on osama.
-The stepped up attacks on civil liberties. Jeez guys ever read the constitution?
-The retarded foreign policy that attacks Iraq but cowers from real trouble makers and potential threats i.e. iran, n. korea. Btw, anyone notice africa is now being taken over by muslim extremists? But we are in Iraq, trying to prevent a failed state created by people who have never even served. Good Job!
-The arrogance of the current regime in 'knowing' what will happen.

Something tells me im a lot madder than any euro could be. And yes, Im still no fan of france. but thats another topic.
Knight`UK
Lollerstorycarpark
+371|6767|England

CameronPoe wrote:

Knight`UK wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I'd like American citizens to post the reasons they reckon people from Europe (and elsewhere) are generally disgruntled with USA at the moment. We (the rest of the world) can then iron out any misconceptions you might have. Do not post irrational garbage and do not drag this into some kind of flame war or else I'll delete the thread. I merely wish to break down any understanding barriers that might interfere with rational debate elsewhere on this forum.
I always thought you hated only England ,you seem to bitch about us all the time .
You are speaking in generalisations again. I detest the fact your country occupies a small part of my country but that doesn't extend to outright hatred of everything and everyone English.
Well if you actually give it rest about us in the UK i wouldnt have posted above comment but you never stfu about us .

I detest the fact our troops are doing a job over there get abused every day for doing there job ,its not there choice believe me to serve in such a hellish place with people gobbing/stoneing/setting fire to you and other things most of the time .

I suggest you drop the anti english posts for a while because you young sir are begening to piss alot of us off here.

Last edited by Knight`UK (2006-08-15 09:26:30)

CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6742

Knight`UK wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Knight`UK wrote:


I always thought you hated only England ,you seem to bitch about us all the time .
You are speaking in generalisations again. I detest the fact your country occupies a small part of my country but that doesn't extend to outright hatred of everything and everyone English.
Well if you actually give it rest about us in the UK i wouldnt have posted above comment but you never stfu about us .

I detest the fact our troops are doing a job over there get abused every day for doing there job ,its not there choice believe me to serve in such a hellish place with people gobbing/stoneing/setting fire to you and other things most of the time .

I suggest you drop the anti english posts for a while because you young sir are begening to piss alot of us off here.
I haven't posted anything 'anti-english' in aaagggeeess. I've been focussing on Israel.
Knight`UK
Lollerstorycarpark
+371|6767|England

CameronPoe wrote:

Knight`UK wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:


You are speaking in generalisations again. I detest the fact your country occupies a small part of my country but that doesn't extend to outright hatred of everything and everyone English.
Well if you actually give it rest about us in the UK i wouldnt have posted above comment but you never stfu about us .

I detest the fact our troops are doing a job over there get abused every day for doing there job ,its not there choice believe me to serve in such a hellish place with people gobbing/stoneing/setting fire to you and other things most of the time .

I suggest you drop the anti english posts for a while because you young sir are begening to piss alot of us off here.
I haven't posted anything 'anti-english' in aaagggeeess. I've been focussing on Israel.
Well atleast you admit you do post shit about us and iam glad you are giveing a rest because you where pissing alot of people off .

The thing that annoys me is you never admit our troops over there have been treated like shit for doing a job thats why i hate you and 99% of your stupid posts .
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6742

Knight`UK wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Knight`UK wrote:

Well if you actually give it rest about us in the UK i wouldnt have posted above comment but you never stfu about us .

I detest the fact our troops are doing a job over there get abused every day for doing there job ,its not there choice believe me to serve in such a hellish place with people gobbing/stoneing/setting fire to you and other things most of the time .

I suggest you drop the anti english posts for a while because you young sir are begening to piss alot of us off here.
I haven't posted anything 'anti-english' in aaagggeeess. I've been focussing on Israel.
Well atleast you admit you do post shit about us and iam glad you are giveing a rest because you where pissing alot of people off .

The thing that annoys me is you never admit our troops over there have been treated like shit for doing a job thats why i hate you and 99% of your stupid posts .
I never said your troops didn't get shit but I mean what do they expect. Hate is an energy-sapping feeling - I wouldn't go wasting it on someone like me.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-08-15 09:37:30)

smtt686
this is the best we can do?
+95|6818|USA
why does this guy always have to start the America is ignorant thread???  I think someone is making up for something that is not quite adequate?
Knight`UK
Lollerstorycarpark
+371|6767|England

CameronPoe wrote:

Knight`UK wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:


I haven't posted anything 'anti-english' in aaagggeeess. I've been focussing on Israel.
Well atleast you admit you do post shit about us and iam glad you are giveing a rest because you where pissing alot of people off .

The thing that annoys me is you never admit our troops over there have been treated like shit for doing a job thats why i hate you and 99% of your stupid posts .
I never said your troops didn't get shit but I mean what do they expect.
They and i have to do a job over there and you blame the wrong people for what has/is happening over there .Only a retard like you would enjoy seeing other people getting hurt for doing there job .If it was up to me i would pull them out and let the thick poeple like you sort it out for yourselfs .
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6729|Texas - Bigger than France

CameronPoe wrote:

I'd like American citizens to post the reasons they reckon people from Europe (and elsewhere) are generally disgruntled with USA at the moment.
The rest is neutral...but am I misinterpreting this as "please tell us why we in Europe think the US is a bunch of buttholes?"

I see what you're trying to do, but wouldn't it be easier to start from what we have in common and what's good...and build from that?

The other issue about this topic is it will not resolve issues.  It will more likely end up a flame war...because of your phrasing above.  In addition one election does not change anything enough to make a difference.  Our foreign policy has evolved and will slowly change, even with the next election.  The gov't will continue to do the best it can to make tough decisions...either you believe they are doing the best they can, or you don't.

Kaos has it nailed - most people don't vote.  Most Americans are voting because of the impact directly on their own lives - international politics does not usually enter into the equation.  So, when you ask "why aren't you paying attention to me in Ireland (or whatever country)" its because we don't usually think about it.  Europe is many countries working together, more diverse environment.  The typical American has very little contact with other nations - so international concerns are less of a concern.

Therefore, you will get a "we don't care what you think", we're going to do what we do because that's how it is...the average citizen is not informed about what the foreign country's agenda is.  So how do we change that?
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6742

Knight`UK wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Knight`UK wrote:


Well atleast you admit you do post shit about us and iam glad you are giveing a rest because you where pissing alot of people off .

The thing that annoys me is you never admit our troops over there have been treated like shit for doing a job thats why i hate you and 99% of your stupid posts .
I never said your troops didn't get shit but I mean what do they expect.
They and i have to do a job over there and you blame the wrong people for what has/is happening over there .Only a retard like you would enjoy seeing other people getting hurt for doing there job .If it was up to me i would pull them out and let the thick poeple like you sort it out for yourselfs .
Hey man - the government of England would love to pull out as soon as they possibly could but unfortunately they can't. There are next to no troops in the north now anyway and the IRA has decommissioned its weapons so what are you cyring about? How would you react if Germany won the battle of Britain? Would you sit there and diligently learn German? Please put yourselves momentarily in an Irishmans shoes and try and empathise.
aardfrith
Δ > x > ¥
+145|6979

smtt686 wrote:

why does this guy always have to start the America is ignorant thread???  I think someone is making up for something that is not quite adequate?

CameronPoe wrote:

I'd like American citizens to post the reasons they reckon people from Europe (and elsewhere) are generally disgruntled with USA at the moment. We (the rest of the world) can then iron out any misconceptions you might have. Do not post irrational garbage and do not drag this into some kind of flame war or else I'll delete the thread. I merely wish to break down any understanding barriers that might interfere with rational debate elsewhere on this forum.
From what CP posted, it sure as hell doesn't look like an "America is ignorant" thread.  However, smtt686, your post does.
Cbnnttb
Member
+2|6656|USA
"France have the largest army in Europe.

"we saved you plenty of times ex. WWI, WWII not to mention we helped with vietnam"

Very inaccurate - WWI the US were hardly involved at all, they provided artillery and naval support to the British and French but refused to provide reinforcements - unless you were black, in which case you'd be shipped off to the French frontlines. - WWII the US stayed out of until the last minute, but were very helpful when they did get involved - Vietnam???? The French were long gone by the time the US did anything in Vietnam. The communist gorvernment (which is what the US went into Vietnam to overthrow) was only established after the departure of the French.

first of all size doesnt make a difference if the army cant complete its objective which brings up both world wars, if the US hadnt supported the french and british then germany could have won afterall that was the closest war in history, also in WW2 americans made all the difference had the US hadnt sided with the brits then the war would have seen the destruction of great britain mainly since the military would have still been desimated, therefore no france
finally in vietnam the french came to the americans for help and pulled out too early, the US still did its job
captain_itchy_pants
Member
+13|6762
I am an Irishman living in the States and I love it here. I have been back several time to the awl sod but each time it gets harder to go back. Dublin (my home town) has turned into a shit hole (not that it wasnt when I left 14 years ago). My wife and children are American and my family and their friends love them and never a bad word or a negative action is put towards them (they know I will rip them limb from limb if they ever thought so)

Poe, I wonder why there is always a negativity towards the US in most of your posts? You live on the west coast....galway? Sligo? I know a lot of American companies on that side of the Isle. America has been the leading financeer in a lot of businesses in Ireland and has made it one of the fastest and porfitable countries in europe or the world for that matter. I just wanna know why the hate, dislike, general displeasure with the good ol' US of A?
I have to say its pretty presumptious and an egregiously false insinuation to speak for an entire continent saying they are "disgruntled" with another entire country. Some people do, some people dont, some people dont care,  and some people think cucumbers taste better pickled. Its a fair contention that the Bush administration isnt popular these days ..even in America. Its also a safe assumption that youre more likely to find here the internet kiddies who are full of preteen angst mad at their mommies and the world. Reading up Alex Jones crap and w/e other conspiracy crap and decide theyve found somethign to hate.

Also generalising that the entirety of America is "ignorant" to the rest of the world is bullshit and rude as hell. The internet kiddies belive from watching cnnnn videos and decide Americans are stupid or thinking Americans only watch Fox news are close minded ill informed douches. I watch BBC regularly ..I'll even watch Al Jazeera even tho I tend to hate what I see and make a concerted effort to be informed.

Also I see Mr.Poe found offense to the comment of "not caring what Europe thinks" While generally I listen to criticism as an American I can honestly say I could give a flying fuck what Jaque Chirac or any other Euro  douchebag who thinks they can direct our nation and its foreign policy.

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