That's why Mordechai Vanunu spent a lifetime of inprisonment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_VanunuCameronPoe wrote:
"Washington and Jerusalem have an understanding dating back to 1969 that as long as Israel maintains "ambiguity" and does not openly declare itself a nuclear power, the U.S. will not force it to join the NPT (which would mean destroying its nuclear capabilities)." Aluf Benn, 26 December 2003
Pretty compelling and hard to watch.....I don't care what f'ing "side" you are on...when kids get hurt - the f'er that hurt them should be hurt back....worse.HM1{N} wrote:
For your reading and viewing pleasure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc1rJS0u … mp;search=
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl? … 03/1344244
http://aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20editor … ,%20by%20M
Last edited by Tunacommy (2006-08-11 11:02:54)
finished with the pics then i see. SO isreal doesn't target civilians ? so how do so many civilians still mange to die ?King_County_Downy wrote:
The first video shows nothing but still photos. mehHM1{N} wrote:
For your reading and viewing pleasure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc1rJS0u … mp;search=
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl? … 03/1344244
http://aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20editor … ,%20by%20M
I'm sure Israel has plenty of exactly the same photos but reversed.
The second article "Human Rights Watch Accuses Israel of War Crimes For Indiscriminately Targeting Lebanese Civilians.
WTF What do you think the terrorists do? <TARGET CIVILLIANS> This argument is null.
Israels doesn't target civillians. They are targeting the the motherfuckers with teh bombs, hiding amongst the civillians.
Last edited by mafia996630 (2006-08-11 11:07:11)
I will post all sides, the truth can only be known when all sides are presented. Don't twist this into a pro-arab slant because I posted an Al Jazeera link...Erkut.hv wrote:
I digress, you are correct. perhpas "have a strong dislike" would have been a better choice of words.CameronPoe wrote:
Hate is a strong word. If I truly really hated Israel I wouldn't agree with the fact that here should be a state of Israel along the 1948 borders. Many true Israel-haters wouldn't even concede that much. If I hated Israel that much I wouldn't have felt content lining Israeli's pockets as a tourist there or visiting Masada and the wailing wall.Erkut.hv wrote:
Uh, thoughts:
You really hate Israel. The horse can't possibly be any more dead at this point. Please quit beating it.
ed: spelling
And HM1, you are a class act. Whoa, you just posted al jazeera as a news source?
The quotes in his post are written by others, mostly government officials.Erkut.hv wrote:
Uh, thoughts:
You really hate Israel. The horse can't possibly be any more dead at this point. Please quit beating it.
ed: spelling
I read the quotes. So the quotes say that Israel has had relations with the US.CameronPoe wrote:
Nice way to address the content and details of my post. By completely avoiding them.Erkut.hv wrote:
Uh, thoughts:
You really hate Israel. The horse can't possibly be any more dead at this point. Please quit beating it.
ed: spelling
Wow. I was going to say something similar. So Israel is really an ally of the US. Who'd a thunk it? We should take this material the UN right away before something awful happens!Pug wrote:
I read the quotes. So the quotes say that Israel has had relations with the US.CameronPoe wrote:
Nice way to address the content and details of my post. By completely avoiding them.Erkut.hv wrote:
Uh, thoughts:
You really hate Israel. The horse can't possibly be any more dead at this point. Please quit beating it.
ed: spelling
Good work. I hope that didn't take too long.
It would appear she is far more than just an ally.M1-Lightning wrote:
Wow. I was going to say something similar. So Israel is really an ally of the US. Who'd a thunk it? We should take this material the UN right away before something awful happens!Pug wrote:
I read the quotes. So the quotes say that Israel has had relations with the US.CameronPoe wrote:
Nice way to address the content and details of my post. By completely avoiding them.
Good work. I hope that didn't take too long.
Did you read the quotes carefully? Have you seen the extend Israel influences, or at least try to influence, the US government? Do realize what a beating US foreign relations get by this unconditional support of Israel? Do you realize this is probably the MAIN reason the US is the prime target to terrorism?Pug wrote:
I read the quotes. So the quotes say that Israel has had relations with the US.CameronPoe wrote:
Nice way to address the content and details of my post. By completely avoiding them.Erkut.hv wrote:
Uh, thoughts:
You really hate Israel. The horse can't possibly be any more dead at this point. Please quit beating it.
ed: spelling
Good work. I hope that didn't take too long.
Last edited by EVieira (2006-08-11 12:06:54)
Ok, Cam and Evieria...I'll bite...just a sec, let me do this quote by quote to explain this further...posting in a few mins.EVieira wrote:
Did you read the quotes carefully? Have you seen the extend Israel influences, or at least try to influence, the US government? Do realize what a beating US foreign relations get by this unconditional support of Israel? Do you realize this is probably the MAIN reason the US is the prime target to terrorism?Pug wrote:
I read the quotes. So the quotes say that Israel has had relations with the US.CameronPoe wrote:
Nice way to address the content and details of my post. By completely avoiding them.
Good work. I hope that didn't take too long.
Terrorists don't attack US because it is rich. If that were true, why aren't they blowing shit up in Germany or Japan? Those countries are as rich as the US, income probably even more if you check the per capita income.
Read those quotes a bit more slowly and see if you don't mind Israel meddling with your country's decisions.
""Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio."M1-Lightning wrote:
Wow. I was going to say something similar. So Israel is really an ally of the US. Who'd a thunk it? We should take this material the UN right away before something awful happens!Pug wrote:
I read the quotes. So the quotes say that Israel has had relations with the US.CameronPoe wrote:
Nice way to address the content and details of my post. By completely avoiding them.
Good work. I hope that didn't take too long.
Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2006-08-11 12:20:44)
A democracy with a government set up like ours. Great reason to support a country. LOL. Not a care in the world if actions they take are immoral. It's reasoning like that which led to USA supporting regimes like that of Saddam Hussein, King Fahd of Saudi Arabia, Manuel Noriega, Fulgencio Batista and numerous other despots.DBBrinson1 wrote:
OK. You pick who we support....
A Democracy with a government set up like ours.
or
Relegious Fanatics who want your people dead, burn your flag and dance in the street every time something bad happens to your people?
Tough choice for me..................
ROFL, can i bitchslap this guy?CameronPoe wrote:
Comments, thoughts, etc?
"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.
As an American, I cannot control what the Israeli PM says. Think of Israel as a lobbyist group, and IN 2001 Israel is an ally to the US. So what's the problem?CameronPoe wrote:
Comments, thoughts, etc?
"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.
This states US foreign policy re: Israel. We will defend them if necessary. You're right, defending an ally is terrible.CameronPoe wrote:
"The United States has an absolute, uncompromising commitment to Israel's security and an absolute conviction that Israel alone must decide the steps necessary to ensure that security. That is Israel's prerogative. We accept that. We endorse that. Whatever Israel decides cannot, will not, will never, not ever, alter our fundamental commitment to her security." Al Gore, 18 May 2000
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quo … frame.htm, also on CNN in edited format.
US/Chinese relations are flourishing. It is a very good deal for both countries. US/Indian relations are flourishing. It is a very good deal for both countries. It's arms? We supply arms to our allies. The alternative is to wait until there is a problem and then blast their enemies. We've done it both ways...CamerPoe wrote:
"Israel has also become the main subcontractor of American arms. Just last year, Israel signed a contract to train and equip the Chinese army. It signed another multi-billion dollar contract to train and equip the Indian army. What is it equipping them with? It is equipping them with American weapons." Jeff Halper, Israeli professor, 20 September 2003 - book entitled "Israel and the Empire: Interview with Jeff Halper"
Although the author may or may not be presenting biased info, I can tell you that the industrial lobby is important for politicians for reelection. There are limitations on international arms dealings, but it was not illegal to sell Israel arms in 2003. So therefore, selling arms to Israel in 2003 is a positive for the US economy - there was no reason this is a problem. Now, in the future, their either might be MORE or LESS restrictions on arms sales to Israel. So what's the problem?CameronPoe wrote:
"When AIPAC sells Israel to Congress, it doesn't go to Congressmen and ask them to support Israel because it is Judeo-Christian, or because it is the 'only democracy in the Middle East,' which it also does. It sells it on this basis: 'You are a member of Congress and it is your responsibility to support Israel, because this is how many industries in your state have business links to Israel, this is how many military research people are sitting in universities in your district, this is how many jobs in your district are dependent on the military and the defence industry,' and they translate it down to the extent to which your district is dependent on Israel. Therefore, if you are voting against Israel, you are voting against the goose that lays the golden egg. In most of the districts in the United States, members of Congress have a great dependence on the military. More than half of industrial employment in California is in one way or another connected to defence. Israel is right there, right in the middle of it all. And that is part of its strength." Jeff Halper, 20 September 2003 - book entitled "Israel and the Empire: Interview with Jeff Halper"
Again, US/Chinese relations are great. I'm also thinking (no research by me here) that we had lifted the human rights restriction for China in the Clinton Administration. And, if the arms go to where we don't want them, then the repercussions are not to supply or supply less. This Halper guy is throwing out many opinions, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt instead of tossing aside his argument altogether.CameronPoe wrote:
"Israel is very important, because on the one hand it is a very sophisticated, high-tech, arms developer and dealer. But on the other hand, there are no ethical or moral constraints: there is no Congress, there are no human rights concerns, there are no laws against taking bribes - the Israeli government can do anything it wants to. So you have very sophisticated rogue state - not a Libyan rogue state, but a high tech, military-expert rogue state. Now that is tremendously useful, both for Europe and for the United States. For example, there are American Congressional constraints on selling arms to China because of China's human rights problems. So what Israel does is it tinkers with American arms just enough that they can be considered Israeli arms, and in that way bypasses Congress." Jeff Halper, 20 September 2003 - book entitled "Israel and the Empire: Interview with Jeff Halper"
Oooo...a fact...So what's the problem here?CameronPoe wrote:
"Washington and Jerusalem have an understanding dating back to 1969 that as long as Israel maintains "ambiguity" and does not openly declare itself a nuclear power, the U.S. will not force it to join the NPT (which would mean destroying its nuclear capabilities)." Aluf Benn, 26 December 2003
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShAr … ;listSrc=Y
So an Israeli reporter says they can do what they want to do, and doesn't mention any other country. Are Israeli reporters policy makers? What year was that quote again?CameronPoe wrote:
"Our sufferings have granted us immunity papers, as it were . . . After what all those dirty goyim have done to us, none of them is entitled to preach morality to us. We, on the other hand, have carte blanche, because we were victims and have suffered so much. Once a victim, always a victim, and victimhood entitles its owners to a moral exemption." Amos Oz (born Klausner), Israeli journalist, 1982
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/attacks/ … 40,00.html
States Israel is an ally. Ahh...a conspiracy.CameronPoe wrote:
"In this difficult time we must again reaffirm we are enlisted for the duration-and reaffirm our belief that the cause of Israel must be the cause of America-and the cause of people of conscience everywhere." John Kerry (D), 17 February 2004
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/printer.php?id=2102, several other sources
Ok, roll the clock back to 2004. Nader's right {EDIT RIGHT HERE- so we carry out Nader's plan}. Two years pass - what changes do you see? Oh, war in Lebanon. Terrorists trying to blow up planes. Yep...that would have worked. Two words: Ralph NaderCameronPoe wrote:
"What has been happening over the years is a predictable routine from the head of the Israeli government. The Israeli puppeteer travels to Washington. The Israeli puppeteer meets with the puppet in the White House, and then moves down Pennsylvania Avenue and meets with the puppets in Congress, and then takes back billions of taxpayer dollars. It is time for the Washington puppet show to be replaced by the Washington peace show. In that, we will enhance the freedom and security of both Palestinian and Israeli people, peoples around the world, and the American people here and abroad." Ralph Nader, 28 June 2004
http://www.israelnn.com/news.php3?id=64895
Holy crap! Another guy says the US is allied with Israel. The conspiracy thickens.CameronPoe wrote:
"Meantime among those who still deny Zionist power in US foreign policy, one only has to read the accounts of the AIPAC conference in Washington in May 2004. At a time when Israel was killing children in the streets of Rafah and destroying hundreds of homes under the horrified eyes of the entire civilized world, when an indignant UN Security Council finally rose to its feet and unanimously condemned Israel, US Congressional leaders and the two major Presidential candidates pledged unconditional support to Israel, evoking the bloodthirsty cheers of investment brokers, dentists, doctors, lawyers - the cream of the cream of American Jewish society. "The cause of Israel is the cause of America" rings out from the mouth of every candidate as the Israelis bulldoze homes and snipers shoot small girls on their way to buy candy. Its almost as if Sharon wanted to demonstrate the power of the Zionists in the US, timing the vile destruction of Rafah to coincide with the AIPAC convention and the disgusting appearance of the spineless American politicians supporting ongoing crimes against humanity. Not one voice was raised in even meek protest. To those who claim that the Zionist are just one of a number of "influential lobbies" - try explaining the unconditional support for Israel's genocide of the Palestinian people by the most powerful politicians in the US.
It is almost a perverse pleasure to watch Sharon smear the muck and gore of Rafah on the groveling faces of US politicians - they deserve each other. But for those of us who support a democratic anti-imperialist foreign policy this is one of the most humiliating moments in US history."
James Petras, US professor/writer, 25 May 2004
http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20ed … Petras.htm
Holy crapalooza! A third guy says the US is allied with Israel. Must be a conspiracy.CameronPoe wrote:
"When I go into churches in the 4th District, there are only two countries I pray for: Israel and the United States." Robert Aderholt (R), 5 September 2004
http://www.juancole.com/2004/09/aipac-s … ence.html, lifted from Decatur Daily, Alabama
Allied and in danger? No way! I never would have guessed that.CameronPoe wrote:
"In fact, the U.S.-Israeli relationship has grown so very close over the years that it is almost impossible to distinguish whose policy, Israel's or ours, is being pursued in the Middle East, and this is a reality that puts the United States in grave danger." Bill Christison, ex-CIA, 12 October 2004
http://www.counterpunch.org/christison10122004.html
I haven't read that recently - (I'm being honest here) - did Iraq do all that? I did see a rally and a timetable for US withdrawal. It would be nice to have our guys back. And to answer the quote - I never thought Iraqis would love the US or Israel. So putting this quote here accomplishes what?CameronPoe wrote:
"We'll know for sure real freedom has dawned in Iraq when Baghdad orders U.S. troops out, raises oil prices, rebuilds its armed forces, and renews support for the Palestinian cause." Eric Margolis, Journalist, 30 January 2005
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnist … 14831.html
Last edited by Pug (2006-08-11 13:27:00)
Last edited by mafia996630 (2006-08-11 13:17:11)
So let's answer all your questions with one word - YES.EVieira wrote:
Did you read the quotes carefully? Have you seen the extend Israel influences, or at least try to influence, the US government? Do realize what a beating US foreign relations get by this unconditional support of Israel? Do you realize this is probably the MAIN reason the US is the prime target to terrorism?Pug wrote:
I read the quotes. So the quotes say that Israel has had relations with the US.CameronPoe wrote:
Nice way to address the content and details of my post. By completely avoiding them.
Good work. I hope that didn't take too long.
Terrorists don't attack US because it is rich. If that were true, why aren't they blowing shit up in Germany or Japan? Those countries are as rich as the US, income probably even more if you check the per capita income.
Read those quotes a bit more slowly and see if you don't mind Israel meddling with your country's decisions.
Holy Crapalooza! By the logic you have demonstrated, if you are allied with another country they run your country? Were you aware that the US runs Ireland?CameronPoe wrote:
It would appear she is far more than just an ally.M1-Lightning wrote:
Wow. I was going to say something similar. So Israel is really an ally of the US. Who'd a thunk it? We should take this material the UN right away before something awful happens!Pug wrote:
I read the quotes. So the quotes say that Israel has had relations with the US.
Good work. I hope that didn't take too long.
You don't find it worrying that he seems to be qualifying and pre-endorsing ANY action WHATSOEVER that Israel chooses to take, whether it is morally right or morally wrong?Pug wrote:
This states US foreign policy re: Israel. We will defend them if necessary. You're right, defending an ally is terrible.CameronPoe wrote:
"The United States has an absolute, uncompromising commitment to Israel's security and an absolute conviction that Israel alone must decide the steps necessary to ensure that security. That is Israel's prerogative. We accept that. We endorse that. Whatever Israel decides cannot, will not, will never, not ever, alter our fundamental commitment to her security." Al Gore, 18 May 2000
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quo … frame.htm, also on CNN in edited format.
It is currently illegal for US companies to export arms to China. Haven't America sworn to defend the sovereignty of Taiwan if China ever makes any unwelcome moves? In which case I'm not sure arming China is the smartest move. Didn't Iraq and Afghanistan once have 'great relations' with America and didn't they receive military equipment and aid from USA? Things have a habit of coming back to bite you on the ass if you're not careful.Pug wrote:
US/Chinese relations are flourishing. It is a very good deal for both countries. US/Indian relations are flourishing. It is a very good deal for both countries. It's arms? We supply arms to our allies. The alternative is to wait until there is a problem and then blast their enemies. We've done it both ways...
If the US wishes to be regarded as any kind of arbiter of justice in the middle east or to occupy any kind of moral high ground should they not insist Isreal signs the NPT? It is somewhat hypocritical when they single out Iran for wishing to develop nuclear power without even so much as a critical comment about Israel harbouring a sizeable nuclear arsenal. One rule for Israel, another rule for anyone else. Hardly principled foreign policy unless the principle is 'Do whatever Israel tells us to do'.Pug wrote:
Oooo...a fact...So what's the problem here?CameronPoe wrote:
"Washington and Jerusalem have an understanding dating back to 1969 that as long as Israel maintains "ambiguity" and does not openly declare itself a nuclear power, the U.S. will not force it to join the NPT (which would mean destroying its nuclear capabilities)." Aluf Benn, 26 December 2003
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShAr … ;listSrc=Y
I'd be more than a little uncomfortable if the potential Taoiseach or Uachtaráin of Ireland stated that the cause of Ireland was one and the same with a completely separate independent nation. Not to mention it being a country that consistently violates international law, like for instance Saddam-era Iraq.Pug wrote:
States Israel is an ally. Ahh...a conspiracy.CameronPoe wrote:
"In this difficult time we must again reaffirm we are enlisted for the duration-and reaffirm our belief that the cause of Israel must be the cause of America-and the cause of people of conscience everywhere." John Kerry (D), 17 February 2004
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/printer.php?id=2102, several other sources
Yep - war in lebanon, terrorists attempting to blow up planes, USA still unconditionally supporting Israel. Ever thought the support for Israel might be the reason for all/most of this shit?Pug wrote:
Ok, roll the clock back to 2004. Nader's right. Two years pass - what changes do you see? Oh, war in Lebanon. Terrorists trying to blow up planes. Yep...that would have worked. Two words: Ralph Nader
Why mention Israel? Why mention it before the US in the sentence? Why pray for another country at all? Especially one that has created a replica Warsaw ghetto in its midst.Pug wrote:
Holy crapalooza! A third guy says the US is allied with Israel. Must be a conspiracy.CameronPoe wrote:
"When I go into churches in the 4th District, there are only two countries I pray for: Israel and the United States." Robert Aderholt (R), 5 September 2004
http://www.juancole.com/2004/09/aipac-s … ence.html, lifted from Decatur Daily, Alabama
'Conspiracy theory'. LOL. I thought conspirators were supposed to conspire in secret. Diplomatic buttfucking for all to see is hardly 'secret'.Pug wrote:
I love it when people string semi-related quotes together to form a conspiracy. Why not just state it? These quotes do not say anything but the following:
The US is an ally to Israel, some people like it, some don't.
Nice conspiracy theory...proves what we already know...good work.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-08-11 13:48:56)
Well, lets think about this. Both the United States and Israel have to follow the rules agreed apon by the international community as to what is "fair" warfair. (I just lol'd at that...get it...fair warfair...nevermind). Terrorist organizations or whatever you want to call them, have no rules, no morals, and no direct repercussions such as sanctions or tariffs because they aren't a real government. And they know this and use it well to their advantage. Take Lebanon for instance. If they keep Hezbollah on the side but never admit that they are part of their government, they're "innocent" right? This is all just religious and political bullshit that dates back to the beginning of time. These fanatic motherfuckers want nothing more than to die for their religion. That's what they want to do. It's honorable to them. yay. So this has gone on for years and the tactics have evolved into what you see today. It really is civilians that harbor the fanatics and help them fight for their shared beliefs. The same can be said for Israel. The civilians help their army in just the same way. They pay taxes and are required to serve in their military for 4 years (I think) So in a war, "civilians" get injured and killed. Why is this news to anyone? Has the world really gone this soft? So you show a picture of a dead baby and say "OMG look what they've done!! This is why they are willing to die over this." Well, guess what? Think about the other guy who's sister died in a suicide bomb attack last week. The suicide bomber doesn't distinguish between civilian and armed forces member. They just want to kill as many people as possible. Could you imagine if Israel took the same stance? What about America? If we just threw up our hands one day and said "Fuck it" and started carpet bombing the middle east and Mecca, etc..., could you imagine how many people we could kill if we really wanted to? Oh, and you better believe we still got plenty of chemical weapons and biological weapons and nukes and whatever else we don't know about. But we don't do that. We try to be civilized to a degree and hold a higher belief system than them. Could you imagine if these fuckers got their hands on any weapon of mass destruction? Do you think they would only target military personnel? If so, you are a fool.mafia996630 wrote:
finished with the pics then i see. SO Israel doesn't target civilians ? so how do so many civilians still mange to die ?
looks like the people that are not meant to be killing civilians do a better job then those that are meant to be killing civilians.
Last edited by King_County_Downy (2006-08-11 14:40:03)
Read the quote again. It says security and support for self defense. You have said the current Israeli thing isn't self defense. So it isn't pre-endorsing anything - the quote does not say that. Now, apply it to the current situation...there is a differing opinion on what is self defense and whether it is justified. Get used to it. I'm in the grey area on which side to support...CameronPoe wrote:
You don't find it worrying that he seems to be qualifying and pre-endorsing ANY action WHATSOEVER that Israel chooses to take, whether it is morally right or morally wrong?
China probably got back channel arms to open up trade. A technicality way around the law via other countires. The current adminstration wants to sell to China. I don't have a problem currently, because Chinese/US relations are the strongest since before WWII, back when the US & China were buddies. I'm seeing a closer relationship with China and it is welcomed. To answer your questions - Yes, and no shit.CameronPoe wrote:
It is currently illegal for US companies to export arms to China. Haven't America sworn to defend the sovereignty of Taiwan if China ever makes any unwelcome moves? In which case I'm not sure arming China is the smartest move. Didn't Iraq and Afghanistan once have 'great relations' with America and didn't they receive military equipment and aid from USA? Things have a habit of coming back to bite you on the ass if you're not careful.
Again matter of opinion. I'm guessing Israelis won't be attacking the US anytime soon. Now, if everything is diffused, I'd probably guess there's going to be some more Iran-supported terrorist actions against the US. You're right, though...lets give a country who actively supports an extremist group some nukes to even it out.CameronPoe wrote:
If the US wishes to be regarded as any kind of arbiter of justice in the middle east or to occupy any kind of moral high ground should they not insist Isreal signs the NPT? It is somewhat hypocritical when they single out Iran for wishing to develop nuclear power without even so much as a critical comment about Israel harbouring a sizeable nuclear arsenal. One rule for Israel, another rule for anyone else. Hardly principled foreign policy unless the principle is 'Do whatever Israel tells us to do'.
I didn't read that in the quote. Maybe he left your opinion out on accident.CameronPoe wrote:
I'd be more than a little uncomfortable if the potential Taoiseach or Uachtaráin of Ireland stated that the cause of Ireland was one and the same with a completely separate independent nation. Not to mention it being a country that consistently violates international law, like for instance Saddam-era Iraq.
Is it not obvious yet? YES, we actively have taken on this role and this is the drawback. Second part of the YES - it takes two sides for this to happen. You have stated before "cannot be dealt with", you have to do damage control on the future. With that being said...its unfortunate that the US takes on this role. I would rather have SOME country play this role than none at all.CameronPoe wrote:
Yep - war in lebanon, terrorists attempting to blow up planes, USA still unconditionally supporting Israel. Ever thought the support for Israel might be the reason for all/most of this shit?
Holy....you're right. Wait...what? Allies? Support for Israel? Said it? NO WAY! Still under your jaded interpretation...means nothing more than US and Israel are allies.CameronPoe wrote:
Why mention Israel? Why mention it before the US in the sentence? Why pray for another country at all? Especially one that has created a replica Warsaw ghetto in its midst.
Right, so my point is - what is the point of posting what we already know?CameronPoe wrote:
'Conspiracy theory'. LOL. I thought conspirators were supposed to conspire in secret. Diplomatic buttfucking for all to see is hardly 'secret'.
Last edited by Pug (2006-08-11 14:33:51)
Well some didn't require a response and the other China comment was covered by part of my response.Pug wrote:
First, what happened to the other quotes? Was it a waste of time, an oversight by posting in the first place, or God forbid I actually made sense for once?
Well the rub is, say, if Israel decided they wanted to pre-emptively invade another country, the stated aim being to ensure their security (similar-ish to the current Lebanon conflict) - a pre-endorsement for that is something I personally would not be happy about if I were a US citizen. It also emboldens Israel to see how far they can stretch the loyalty of the US.Pug wrote:
Read the quote again. It says security and support for self defense. You have said the current Israeli thing isn't self defense. So it isn't pre-endorsing anything - the quote does not say that. Now, apply it to the current situation...there is a differing opinion on what is self defense and whether it is justified. Get used to it. I'm in the grey area on which side to support...
........or you could tell Israel to sign the NPT and decommission its nukes AND prevent Iran from acquiring them.CameronPoe wrote:
Again matter of opinion. I'm guessing Israelis won't be attacking the US anytime soon. Now, if everything is diffused, I'd probably guess there's going to be some more Iran-supported terrorist actions against the US. You're right, though...lets give a country who actively supports an extremist group some nukes to even it out.
Are you being smug or did you actually not get the analogous nature of my post?Pug wrote:
I didn't read that in the quote. Maybe he left your opinion out on accident.
Well if Israel had released the 1000 or so kidnapped Lebanese prisoners of the previous invasion of Lebanon in exchange for the kidnapped Israeli soldiers of this conflict - none of this would be happening. Hezbollah did set out negotiation terms - so on this particular issue they could be reasoned with. I'm guessing it's too late for that now though.Pug wrote:
Is it not obvious yet? YES, we actively have taken on this role and this is the drawback. Second part of the YES - it takes two sides for this to happen. You have stated before "cannot be dealt with", you have to do damage control on the future. With that being said...its unfortunate that the US takes on this role. I would rather have SOME country play this role than none at all.
Some people have trouble putting 2 & 2 together. I'm spelling it out for the ignorant ones.Pug wrote:
Right, so my point is - what is the point of posting what we already know?
There has to be more than trying to link these together and reasoning for your selections. I'm just trying to grasp it - what's the problem?
So...tell me where you are going with this.
The 51st star on the flag can be a star of David.JaMDuDe wrote:
Lets make Israel the 51st state of America! We can all go their when we have money problems.