I didn't know enemies of the state were guaranteed constitutional rights, I kinda thought those were rights granted to American citizens. but hey, I am no lawyer.jonsimon wrote:
Those of you defending Gitmo, the people held there are generally done so without TRIAL. They are not given the right to our judicial system, and are never even convicted.
I don't know what info was gathered on these people, as I assume you don't either. that is why I will let those handling this, handle it. I have said this before and I will say it again. I don't care about those maniacs locked up in Gitmo. Do you have to be IN Iraq and Afghanistan now, to be a threat to the western world?aardfrith wrote:
So you don't know how these people were rounded up. If I told you some were arrested in countries not even on the same continent as Afghanistan and Iraq, would you be surprised?lowing wrote:
No proof that has been made aware to us.... These people were not rounded up randomly, I assume some were caught in battle and others had intel gathered on them. Either way, these are people that will not be given a chance to take up arms against the effort again.Bubbalo wrote:
1) So far, the message has only come from Al Qaeda, it could be chest beating.
2) Egypt now has 1000 different ways to break into terrorist cells
3) Those were proven terrorists. The issue with Guantanamo Bay is that there has been no proof forthcoming.
Also, anyone know where the Gitmo nickname comes from?
If you were arrested in a foreign country, not linked to terrorist incidents, taken to yet another foreign country and held without contact to the outside world for upwards of four years, wouldn't you be a little peeved with your captors or would you be as passive as possible? Throwing shit and stabbing the guards with lizards tails seems fair enough given what they've been put through.
As for intel being gathered on them, that's great. Give them a fair trial with all this intel and see what happens. If they are terrorists and there is enough evidence, they will be convicted and you can throw the book at them. If not, they walk free and deserve compensation.
would you approve of, based on that logic, a 2 million man detention camp built in Alaska?
Forgive me for this link, but it is interesting.
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~hubbca/p … litics.htm
http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?name=F … mp;t=36025
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps.htm
Forgive me for this link, but it is interesting.
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~hubbca/p … litics.htm
http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?name=F … mp;t=36025
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps.htm
Last edited by Spumantiii (2006-08-07 16:08:51)
What about human rights?lowing wrote:
I didn't know enemies of the state were guaranteed constitutional rights, I kinda thought those were rights granted to American citizens. but hey, I am no lawyer.jonsimon wrote:
Those of you defending Gitmo, the people held there are generally done so without TRIAL. They are not given the right to our judicial system, and are never even convicted.
They grant them the right to a trial - but of course, America hasn't signed the human rights act.
These people and this religion are completely against US morality and social values, I have shown links where they intend to enforce their beliefs and their will on the west,. THERE OWN WORDS. Muslims are fighting all over the world. They had a world wide riot to protest the worlds right to free press. Iran comes out and openly claims they want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth and kill all the Jews and ANYONE that supports them. Now really, what more can anyone show you that will convince you this war needs to be won?Spumantiii wrote:
would you approve of, based on that logic, of a 2 million man detention camp built in Alaska?
Forgive me for this link, but it is interesting.
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~hubbca/p … litics.htm
Better yet, show me the proof that convinces you all that the Muslims want to live in peace EVEN IF Israel is destroyed. One link that proves they will leave the rest of the world alone and be part of the global economy in trade and tourism...........ONE LINK. What convinces you all of there is a "peace loving" Muslim world out there??
We have been down this road a 1000 times. Not telling them which way is East, is hardly abuse. and like I said, I couldn't care less as long as our troops are in harms way. I showed you the links that prove what we are dealing with down there and I have no sympathy. Next time maybe they won't plot, carry out, or support attacks on Americans or the coalition.Bertster7 wrote:
What about human rights?lowing wrote:
I didn't know enemies of the state were guaranteed constitutional rights, I kinda thought those were rights granted to American citizens. but hey, I am no lawyer.jonsimon wrote:
Those of you defending Gitmo, the people held there are generally done so without TRIAL. They are not given the right to our judicial system, and are never even convicted.
They grant them the right to a trial - but of course, America hasn't signed the human rights act.
You Bush bashers would be first in line to verbally assault this administration if another 911 happened and it turned out a released prisoner in Gitmo was a key factor to its success.
Actually I bet you would applaud such an attack as it would be fodder for you to scream FAILURE in this war by this administration. And yes I really do believe that.
Thats not what I mean by human rights - I'm talking about their right to trial - it isn't just Americans who have the right to be tried for crimes they commit.lowing wrote:
We have been down this road a 1000 times. Not telling them which way is East, is hardly abuse. and like I said, I couldn't care less as long as our troops are in harms way. I showed you the links that prove what we are dealing with down there and I have no sympathy. Next time maybe they won't plot, carry out, or support attacks on Americans or the coalition.Bertster7 wrote:
What about human rights?lowing wrote:
I didn't know enemies of the state were guaranteed constitutional rights, I kinda thought those were rights granted to American citizens. but hey, I am no lawyer.
They grant them the right to a trial - but of course, America hasn't signed the human rights act.
You Bush bashers would be first in line to verbally assault this administration if another 911 happened and it turned out a released prisoner in Gitmo was a key factor to its success.
Actually I bet you would applaud such an attack as it would be fodder for you to scream FAILURE in this war by this administration. And yes I really do believe that.
you sound very educated on the topic. i'm sure you've talked to every single person there and come to the conclusion in each case, that they are terrorists and would kill an american on sight.fadedsteve wrote:
(bubbalo)He is a sympathizer of anyone or anything that is anti USA in any form. . .
THESE ARE ENEMY COMBATANTS (aka terrorists)
THEY DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT have the same rights as those who fight for an organized army defending their country. . . .
Those miserable pricks can sit there for the rest of their lives for all I care, they are murderers and sadists, and having them behind bars is a good thing!! Gitmo houses the WORST of the worst, these guys DO not deserve any trial other than a military one PERIOD!! Their crimes dont constitute the normal judicial procedures that a normal criminal would get! They didnt rob the fucking candy store down the street, they took an entire nation (afghanistan/Iraq etc) hostage, killed women and children (in the USA and abroad). They deserve military justice, a much more firm and expedient system of justice(more appropriate).
Why do people give these terrorists the benefit of the doubt?? These terrorists sure as hell wouldnt give any of you sympathizers any quarter??
Another thing, those prisoners deamed exceptable for release from Gitmo, HAVE BEEN RELEASED!! The only prisoners at Gitmo are hardened terrorists that would still make war with the USA if they were released tomorrow!!
STOP THE SYMPATHETIC bullshit!! Those pricks deserve NONE!!!
or did your news tell you this?
propoganda anyone? it does wonders ^^
Last edited by CommieChipmunk (2006-08-07 16:30:53)
since when did the news ever support the efforts of the whitehouse?
propaganda anyone? it does wonders ^^
propaganda anyone? it does wonders ^^
well it seems to me that almost everyone in these forums is under the impression that every-single-person in iraq, iran etc.. is a terrorist. Thats pretty much exactly what this administration would want wouldnt it?
Last edited by CommieChipmunk (2006-08-07 16:35:17)
I am thinkin' that if this administration wants us all to think that way, or if he believed it himself, then we wouldn't be fucking around trying to surgically kill the terrorists and spare as many civilians as we can. I would think that if he really believed that, Iraq would be a parking lot for the home depot that WAS Afghanistan and the giant wal-mart that WAS Iran. Watcha think???CommieChipmunk wrote:
well it seems to me that almost everyone in these forums is under the impression that every-single-person in iraq, iran etc.. is a terrorist. Thats pretty much exactly what this administration would want wouldn't it?
What's the big deal? Why do we always have to sound so apologetic? We should just turn the whole area into a giant glass crater and be done with it. Who gives a fuck if we do and what are they gonna do about it?lowing wrote:
I am thinkin' that if this administration wants us all to think that way, or if he believed it himself, then we wouldn't be fucking around trying to surgically kill the terrorists and spare as many civilians as we can. I would think that if he really believed that, Iraq would be a parking lot for the home depot that WAS Afghanistan and the giant wal-mart that WAS Iran. Watcha think???CommieChipmunk wrote:
well it seems to me that almost everyone in these forums is under the impression that every-single-person in iraq, iran etc.. is a terrorist. Thats pretty much exactly what this administration would want wouldn't it?
after the article I read the other day about the Iraqis supporting Hezzbolah..............well never mind.CyrusTheVirus wrote:
What's the big deal? Why do we always have to sound so apologetic? We should just turn the whole area into a giant glass crater and be done with it. Who gives a fuck if we do and what are they gonna do about it?lowing wrote:
I am thinkin' that if this administration wants us all to think that way, or if he believed it himself, then we wouldn't be fucking around trying to surgically kill the terrorists and spare as many civilians as we can. I would think that if he really believed that, Iraq would be a parking lot for the home depot that WAS Afghanistan and the giant wal-mart that WAS Iran. Watcha think???CommieChipmunk wrote:
well it seems to me that almost everyone in these forums is under the impression that every-single-person in iraq, iran etc.. is a terrorist. Thats pretty much exactly what this administration would want wouldn't it?
Actually a guy I went to high school with, was a guard at Gitmo. . . . Thanks for asking! Granted he was assigned to the most troublesome area of the prison, due to being a prison guard at Folsom, having dealt with violent criminals before! Not all Gitmo prisoners were violent, but most if not all had anti-american sentiment, and supported Bin Ladin.CommieChipmunk wrote:
you sound very educated on the topic. i'm sure you've talked to every single person there and come to the conclusion in each case, that they are terrorists and would kill an american on sight.fadedsteve wrote:
(bubbalo)He is a sympathizer of anyone or anything that is anti USA in any form. . .
THESE ARE ENEMY COMBATANTS (aka terrorists)
THEY DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT have the same rights as those who fight for an organized army defending their country. . . .
Those miserable pricks can sit there for the rest of their lives for all I care, they are murderers and sadists, and having them behind bars is a good thing!! Gitmo houses the WORST of the worst, these guys DO not deserve any trial other than a military one PERIOD!! Their crimes dont constitute the normal judicial procedures that a normal criminal would get! They didnt rob the fucking candy store down the street, they took an entire nation (afghanistan/Iraq etc) hostage, killed women and children (in the USA and abroad). They deserve military justice, a much more firm and expedient system of justice(more appropriate).
Why do people give these terrorists the benefit of the doubt?? These terrorists sure as hell wouldnt give any of you sympathizers any quarter??
Another thing, those prisoners deamed exceptable for release from Gitmo, HAVE BEEN RELEASED!! The only prisoners at Gitmo are hardened terrorists that would still make war with the USA if they were released tomorrow!!
STOP THE SYMPATHETIC bullshit!! Those pricks deserve NONE!!!
or did your news tell you this?
propoganda anyone? it does wonders ^^
And he said they were on their "toes" everytime they would walk close to the cells, cause the prisoners would throw feces at them, or anything they could get their hands on! They would yell at them in Arabic, that they were going to murder them and their families if they ever got out. Not only that, but they brought in pychatrists(spelling) in to analyze the most troublesome prisoners, and they all said they want to kill more Americans if they were to ever be released!
So blow your liberal sympathy for these sadists out your ass!!!
Let me ask you this, would you want the military to release these people in your town??
I dont think so guy. . . you have NO CLUE who is there! Not to mention the murderous capabilities these individuals have at their disposal!! You just have ZERO CLUE. . . thats all I have to say!! These men who are there are TRAINED TERRORISTS, ranking terrorists in al-Qaeda, they are NOT nice people!!!!! If they could kill you, THEY WOULD!!! Mark my words, I am not blowing smoke up your ass!!
Last edited by fadedsteve (2006-08-07 17:23:46)
how could they want to kill more americans if they had nothing to do with american deaths to begin with?
oh, wait
nm
oh, wait
nm
Some of the prisoners were given to us by Pakistan, Afghanistans Norther Alliance, etc. That were not directly involved in 9/11. Some of the prisoners werent even combatants at all, most of those I believe have been released. However, there are prisoners there that would send a shiver down your spin!!!! No shit, there are some real bad asses!!kr@cker wrote:
how could they want to kill more americans if they had nothing to do with american deaths to begin with?
oh, wait
nm
Well,
taking it from a retired Canadian SpForces point of view and seeing what is happening even in this country and the way a lot of people say they would be killing Americans and Canadians if they were home makes me wonder what place in this world is really free from this conflict.
As far as I am concerned if you want to support those beliefs go back to where you came from. Go blow yourselves up because some coward who straps a bomb on and walks into a group of innocent children and thinks thats going to get him a place in the afterlife really needs to be at the least locked up.
If you start spouting off in public as a religous leader that you support the movement overseas your ass SHOULD be locked up until you can convince Johnny public your not a threat. We should start stringing these pricks up and hanging them on a post for the other extremisits to see that you reap what you sow.
And, for the people who are going to spout off that not all of them are bad we can't punish all of them for the actions of a few, do they think there are ANY innocent Americans or Canadians-NO- they will grab anyone they can because to them we are all infidels and don't deserve to live in THEIR world.
I am by no means a racisit and I would love for the world to be able to exist in a state where everyone is equal and all religions and races love each other but some of these religions actually use their religion as a excuse to kill people who are not like them. If the powers that be have arrested some of these people on suspicion of terrorism I say all the power to them, they are still treating these people alot better than the American and other forces troops are being treated and if it takes a few years for them to come to trial maybe it should be a hint that there are just to many of these bastards and the trials should be sped up and the ones found guilty should be put out of our misery and then people will have less to bitch about.
MY 2 cents worth.
taking it from a retired Canadian SpForces point of view and seeing what is happening even in this country and the way a lot of people say they would be killing Americans and Canadians if they were home makes me wonder what place in this world is really free from this conflict.
As far as I am concerned if you want to support those beliefs go back to where you came from. Go blow yourselves up because some coward who straps a bomb on and walks into a group of innocent children and thinks thats going to get him a place in the afterlife really needs to be at the least locked up.
If you start spouting off in public as a religous leader that you support the movement overseas your ass SHOULD be locked up until you can convince Johnny public your not a threat. We should start stringing these pricks up and hanging them on a post for the other extremisits to see that you reap what you sow.
And, for the people who are going to spout off that not all of them are bad we can't punish all of them for the actions of a few, do they think there are ANY innocent Americans or Canadians-NO- they will grab anyone they can because to them we are all infidels and don't deserve to live in THEIR world.
I am by no means a racisit and I would love for the world to be able to exist in a state where everyone is equal and all religions and races love each other but some of these religions actually use their religion as a excuse to kill people who are not like them. If the powers that be have arrested some of these people on suspicion of terrorism I say all the power to them, they are still treating these people alot better than the American and other forces troops are being treated and if it takes a few years for them to come to trial maybe it should be a hint that there are just to many of these bastards and the trials should be sped up and the ones found guilty should be put out of our misery and then people will have less to bitch about.
MY 2 cents worth.
ya can't see it, but I am giving you a standing ovation.......excellent post........+1CABC wrote:
Well,
taking it from a retired Canadian SpForces point of view and seeing what is happening even in this country and the way a lot of people say they would be killing Americans and Canadians if they were home makes me wonder what place in this world is really free from this conflict.
As far as I am concerned if you want to support those beliefs go back to where you came from. Go blow yourselves up because some coward who straps a bomb on and walks into a group of innocent children and thinks thats going to get him a place in the afterlife really needs to be at the least locked up.
If you start spouting off in public as a religous leader that you support the movement overseas your ass SHOULD be locked up until you can convince Johnny public your not a threat. We should start stringing these pricks up and hanging them on a post for the other extremisits to see that you reap what you sow.
And, for the people who are going to spout off that not all of them are bad we can't punish all of them for the actions of a few, do they think there are ANY innocent Americans or Canadians-NO- they will grab anyone they can because to them we are all infidels and don't deserve to live in THEIR world.
I am by no means a racisit and I would love for the world to be able to exist in a state where everyone is equal and all religions and races love each other but some of these religions actually use their religion as a excuse to kill people who are not like them. If the powers that be have arrested some of these people on suspicion of terrorism I say all the power to them, they are still treating these people alot better than the American and other forces troops are being treated and if it takes a few years for them to come to trial maybe it should be a hint that there are just to many of these bastards and the trials should be sped up and the ones found guilty should be put out of our misery and then people will have less to bitch about.
MY 2 cents worth.
I have to agree with Bubbalo here. Sure, we probably did nap some terrorists that were in on some nasty plots to harm Americans, but, like it or not, they are people and deserve some respect. By abusing them through coercion, extortion, and suppression, how does that make us better then some of the things we have fought against? As Americans, we can't let our standards drop to their level and torture them at that level, and assume we can get away with it because we are at war with terrorism. Well, I never heard anyone making peace with the entity terrorism, but yea people can follow Bush by the nose into hell sometimes, or stupidity.
And that smoothie of love made by prisoners waste happens all the time in prisons. We have to value our own citizen’s human rights in prison to some extent.
So... yea.
And that smoothie of love made by prisoners waste happens all the time in prisons. We have to value our own citizen’s human rights in prison to some extent.
So... yea.
You totally fail at life.Retalliation[1337] wrote:
Does this have anything to do witj bf2????
Honor our citizens rights ABSOLUTELY!!Hellogoodsir wrote:
I have to agree with Bubbalo here. Sure, we probably did nap some terrorists that were in on some nasty plots to harm Americans, but, like it or not, they are people and deserve some respect. By abusing them through coercion, extortion, and suppression, how does that make us better then some of the things we have fought against? As Americans, we can't let our standards drop to their level and torture them at that level, and assume we can get away with it because we are at war with terrorism. Well, I never heard anyone making peace with the entity terrorism, but yea people can follow Bush by the nose into hell sometimes, or stupidity.
And that smoothie of love made by prisoners waste happens all the time in prisons. We have to value our own citizen’s human rights in prison to some extent.
So... yea.
But I will not honor some terrorists right AT ALL!!! They are not American civilians, therefore DO NOT deserve the American justice system. They deserve a MILITARY JUSTICE system that deals with them for what they really are, and thats A TERRORIST!!!
Right, like the American citizens accused of being terrorists and quietly shipped off the gitmo without a trial.lowing wrote:
I didn't know enemies of the state were guaranteed constitutional rights, I kinda thought those were rights granted to American citizens. but hey, I am no lawyer.jonsimon wrote:
Those of you defending Gitmo, the people held there are generally done so without TRIAL. They are not given the right to our judicial system, and are never even convicted.
OOPS.
Guess by your logic we could call anyone and enemy of the state and NO TRIAL FOR YOU. Lowing, maybe we should just ship you off, you dont seem to be contributing too much.
Um, they arent terrorists UNTIL OUR AMERICAN JUDICIAL SYSTEM CONVICTS THEM OF IT. DIPSHIT.fadedsteve wrote:
Honor our citizens rights ABSOLUTELY!!Hellogoodsir wrote:
I have to agree with Bubbalo here. Sure, we probably did nap some terrorists that were in on some nasty plots to harm Americans, but, like it or not, they are people and deserve some respect. By abusing them through coercion, extortion, and suppression, how does that make us better then some of the things we have fought against? As Americans, we can't let our standards drop to their level and torture them at that level, and assume we can get away with it because we are at war with terrorism. Well, I never heard anyone making peace with the entity terrorism, but yea people can follow Bush by the nose into hell sometimes, or stupidity.
And that smoothie of love made by prisoners waste happens all the time in prisons. We have to value our own citizen’s human rights in prison to some extent.
So... yea.
But I will not honor some terrorists right AT ALL!!! They are not American civilians, therefore DO NOT deserve the American justice system. They deserve a MILITARY JUSTICE system that deals with them for what they really are, and thats A TERRORIST!!!
Well, they are humans, albeit some that hate us with a passion (ever more after being sent to Gitmo), but some of them folks have been locked there for years and it seems like they won't be leaving any time soon. You can't force people to testify against themselves when it's not true. It's all in making Gitmo looking effective, but those inmates really do go under some painful situations (not like pulling out finger nails). Torture is just flat out bad, even on a smaller level that has been exposed at Gitmo.fadedsteve wrote:
Honor our citizens rights ABSOLUTELY!!Hellogoodsir wrote:
I have to agree with Bubbalo here. Sure, we probably did nap some terrorists that were in on some nasty plots to harm Americans, but, like it or not, they are people and deserve some respect. By abusing them through coercion, extortion, and suppression, how does that make us better then some of the things we have fought against? As Americans, we can't let our standards drop to their level and torture them at that level, and assume we can get away with it because we are at war with terrorism. Well, I never heard anyone making peace with the entity terrorism, but yea people can follow Bush by the nose into hell sometimes, or stupidity.
And that smoothie of love made by prisoners waste happens all the time in prisons. We have to value our own citizen’s human rights in prison to some extent.
So... yea.
But I will not honor some terrorists right AT ALL!!! They are not American civilians, therefore DO NOT deserve the American justice system. They deserve a MILITARY JUSTICE system that deals with them for what they really are, and thats A TERRORIST!!!
NO THEY ARE TERRORISTS!! Its assholes like you who give them sympathy/benefit of the doubt, when they DESERVE NONE!! They are enemies of this country, NUFF SAID!! Military tribunal and be done with it!!jonsimon wrote:
Um, they arent terrorists UNTIL OUR AMERICAN JUDICIAL SYSTEM CONVICTS THEM OF IT. DIPSHIT.fadedsteve wrote:
Honor our citizens rights ABSOLUTELY!!Hellogoodsir wrote:
I have to agree with Bubbalo here. Sure, we probably did nap some terrorists that were in on some nasty plots to harm Americans, but, like it or not, they are people and deserve some respect. By abusing them through coercion, extortion, and suppression, how does that make us better then some of the things we have fought against? As Americans, we can't let our standards drop to their level and torture them at that level, and assume we can get away with it because we are at war with terrorism. Well, I never heard anyone making peace with the entity terrorism, but yea people can follow Bush by the nose into hell sometimes, or stupidity.
And that smoothie of love made by prisoners waste happens all the time in prisons. We have to value our own citizen’s human rights in prison to some extent.
So... yea.
But I will not honor some terrorists right AT ALL!!! They are not American civilians, therefore DO NOT deserve the American justice system. They deserve a MILITARY JUSTICE system that deals with them for what they really are, and thats A TERRORIST!!!