I'm one...spastic bullet wrote:
Militant/extreme anything is a problem for all peace loving free people. The number of "crazy Christians who justify murder" is a matter of perspective. I wouldn't want anybody thinking GWB represents my religion.Sgt.Zubie wrote:
The Old Testament foretells the coming of Christ after that we have the New Testament where Christ teaches Love and Peace...spastic bullet wrote:
Anybody here ever read the Old Testament? Here's a nice little story, told through the universally, um... endearing medium of Lego people. Click on the arrows to go through the story -- it takes about 2 minutes if you read slow, like me.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is not a good basis for judging all Christians by. Even the ones who claim to believe the Bible is the unedited, unaltered, inerrant Word of God.
Jesus says love your enemies
Mohammad teaches kill your enemies
Are there crazy Christians who justify murder? Sure, there are some.
What's my point? Militant/extreme Islam is a problem for all peace loving free people.
Isn't the Old Testament as much a part of the Christian Bible as the New? And isn't it also the part of the Bible Christians share with Judaism, and therefore arguably more relevant than the New, in this context?
I'll be honest -- I don't think a lot of Christians even try to be even-handed in this particular dispute. They almost always seem to want to side with Israel, no matter what the facts are. If anybody here is a Christian, good for you, but tell me so I know before we start discussing this.
It's not my being disjointed; it's the fact that Israel has been killing civilians for decades. They killed civilians (massacred actually) to create Israel. When Palestinians build homes, the Israeli war machine calls in the troops and bulldozers and destroys the homes with the occupants inside. The list of Israeli transgressions is so long, even the U.N. has a hard time keeping track. The Israeli mindset is "we'll just kill everyone here and take their land, if they say or do anything about it we'll call them anti-semitic/terrorists and remind them of the holocaust."ATG wrote:
I understand that seeing unhappy people invokes strong emotions in people.HM1{N} wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/04/mideast.main/index.html
I can now say with all certainty, f*&k Israel. They have taken away every instance of aid. They are blocking aid ships from docking. They are literally starving the people of Lebanon to force them to bend to Israeli will, and they are lying about what they are doing ONCE AGAIN.
Par for the course with that country.
Question; where did the Jews come from? Did they hatch from an egg or fall from the sky?
No, they are human beings too, and despite the majorities opinion, they have a right to exist, just like you do.
The president of Iran spoke up with his usual brilliance; " the conflict will end with the annihilation of Israel. "
The people of Lebanon need to take a good look at their friends and decide if its worth throwing their lot in with Syria. Hezbollah's actions are to blame, and every drop of blood spilled in this current conflict stains their hands.
They offer up the civilians as sacrifices; they don't care if they get killed, thats why they fire rockets from apartment complexes.
Dead civilians get folks like you disjointed; exactly what they want.
ThanksFancy_Pollux wrote:
Thank God none of you are or ever will be world leaders.
Very true.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Civilian deaths are part of any war.
I fail to understand your comparison. WW2 and todays fight against terrorism (I will not call it a war) are very very different. Israel is fighting an Ideal, a State of mind if you will. Artying the hell out of a town is not going to help much. If anything, it will only make that hate worse!Fancy_Pollux wrote:
I bet you that you would've argued against the US's involement in WW2 had we killed a few civilians in Nazi Germany.
What's really funny about a World War II comparison, is that Israel is currently trying out collective punishment, something which Hitler used.
What I'm saying is that there are idiots who will oppose any war simply because a few civilians were killed. I'm not comparing the actual conflicts.Snipedya14 wrote:
I fail to understand your comparison. WW2 and todays fight against terrorism (I will not call it a war) are very very different. Israel is fighting an Ideal, a State of mind if you will. Artying the hell out of a town is not going to help much. If anything, it will only make that hate worse!
Again, I overestimated the reading comprehension abilities of some of you. I am not directly comparing the conflicts, only your reactions to them. What Isreal is doing is in no way related to what Hitler did. If you wish to argue that, do so by yourself, because that claim is so idiotic it isn't worth it.Bubbalo wrote:
What's really funny about a World War II comparison, is that Israel is currently trying out collective punishment, something which Hitler used.
Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2006-08-05 07:50:07)
HM1{N} You mention that the UN cant keep track of Israels transgressions. Hezbollah just happens to be part of Lebonons government and the UN wont say a damn thing condemning Hezbollah or Lebanon. Every thing that comes out of the UN mentions Israel specifically and then calls for others orginizations (none by name) to stop the aggression.
Lets see, soldier(s) get kidnapped in gaza strip. Israel starts agressions against the Palestinians. Hezbollah starts fireing rockets into Israel to open up a second front to help the Palestinians. Hezbollah starts getting their ass handed to them by Israel and they beg for the agressions by Isreal to stop.
I just want to know what Israel should do when Hezbollah fires rockets at their towns? Should they just sit back and watch.
P.S. To all you Americans that don't like what Israel is doing, just remember Hezbollah wants you dead too.
Lets see, soldier(s) get kidnapped in gaza strip. Israel starts agressions against the Palestinians. Hezbollah starts fireing rockets into Israel to open up a second front to help the Palestinians. Hezbollah starts getting their ass handed to them by Israel and they beg for the agressions by Isreal to stop.
I just want to know what Israel should do when Hezbollah fires rockets at their towns? Should they just sit back and watch.
P.S. To all you Americans that don't like what Israel is doing, just remember Hezbollah wants you dead too.
If you get to compare reactions, I get to compare sides. Israel's methods bear for dealing with Palestine/Lebanon bear similarity to Hitler's methods for dealing with insurgency in occupied territories.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Again, I overestimated the reading comprehension abilities of some of you. I am not directly comparing the conflicts, only your reactions to them. What Isreal is doing is in no way related to what Hitler did. If you wish to argue that, do so by yourself, because that claim is so idiotic it isn't worth it.
Bubbalo wrote:
If you get to compare reactions, I get to compare sides. Israel's methods bear for dealing with Palestine/Lebanon bear similarity to Hitler's methods for dealing with insurgency in occupied territories.
Yeah but when they're done there won't be anybody left for concentration campsFancy_Pollux wrote:
Bubbalo wrote:
If you get to compare reactions, I get to compare sides. Israel's methods bear for dealing with Palestine/Lebanon bear similarity to Hitler's methods for dealing with insurgency in occupied territories.
a lot of ppl hate Americans, for example Iraq ? wtf is your point ?, a lot of ppl still reject to what USA and UK is doing over there, so we cant reject to what our country is doing over there, if they hate us ?. no offense to Americans but a lot of ppl around the world hate them.JG1567JG wrote:
HM1{N} You mention that the UN cant keep track of Israels transgressions. Hezbollah just happens to be part of Lebonons government and the UN wont say a damn thing condemning Hezbollah or Lebanon. Every thing that comes out of the UN mentions Israel specifically and then calls for others orginizations (none by name) to stop the aggression.
Lets see, soldier(s) get kidnapped in gaza strip. Israel starts agressions against the Palestinians. Hezbollah starts fireing rockets into Israel to open up a second front to help the Palestinians. Hezbollah starts getting their ass handed to them by Israel and they beg for the agressions by Isreal to stop.
I just want to know what Israel should do when Hezbollah fires rockets at their towns? Should they just sit back and watch.
P.S. To all you Americans that don't like what Israel is doing, just remember Hezbollah wants you dead too.
Fancy is 100% correct here. Same goes for say...Canada. You dont see them launching rockets at Alaska or the continental US.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
How often do you see France launching Qassam rockets into Germany?Flecco wrote:
We should stop pussyfooting around with terrorist harboring countries eh? Well, almost every country on earth harbors terrorists. Weather they know it or not...
Isreal is doing nothing different by blocking ports than anyone does when they are at war with any enemy, its a tactical way to ensure victory really. Isreal has been taunted by all middle eastern countries for a long time....granted, originally land that I believe was controlled by Britain was created as Israel for the Jewish community, but really....everyone has been instigating a fight with them for a long time because they arent a muslim nation and in they are on "the holy land". I personally think its about time Israel fought back. They are just like the shy kid in highschool that always got picked on. Everyone picks on him all the time until one day he snaps, fights back and kicks some major ass and noone screws with him again. During the first Iraq war, Israel had Scuds dropped on them from Iraq. Iran has sworn to wipe them off the planet, Syria hates them, and Lebanon has picked on them for quite awhile....or Hezbollah whichever you prefer to call them.
But I say, go Israel.
Last edited by {BMF}*Frank_The_Tank (2006-08-05 08:29:38)
I agree with everything Fancy_Pollux has said to date... on this thread at least.
I remember when I was in third form - that's the first year of High school. My mate had brought a plastic toy gun to school - M16 type thing with an orange barrel. Anyway, we were playing with it at lunchtime when a group of 'big kids', (fifteen year-olds,) nicked it from us. They tossed it to each other while I tried to go for the person who had it, each time in vain as the arsehole passed it quickly to his mate. After a short time of this, I locked on to the guy who currently had the gun. I made my way routinely over to him and he, as expected, threw it to his mate. I kept on going and tackled this guy and knocked the shit out of him. He managed one cry of "I don't have it -" before he was knocked down.
I refer to this rather glorious schoolyard memory as it resembles what Israel are doing now. They have tried to weed out the terrorists who keep switching from one sympathetic, (but civillian,) group to the next. Like myself in the schoolyard, Israel are pissed off. Those two soldiers were the last straw, so they're going for the most obvious target and they will bring it down.
Yes there are civillian causualties, there will always be civillian casualties, especially in a war where most of one side is made up of people who consider themselves civillians or who hide behind people who are. Israel needs to teach those people who harbour terrorists in their country to turn the terrorists down. Sooner or later people will start to realise that having terrorist groups in your country is not a good thing, and they will tell them to get the fuck out.
And people, it's a war okay. The only difference is that one side hasn't got it's shit together enough to form an army. A war is generally nation against nation, this does not mean state against state. Hizbollah can most definatly be considered a nation. It is a group of people with the same ideals, willing to die for those ideals. There is symbolism to unite people there is a strong sense of unity in Hizbollah. Although the definition for nationhood is sketchy I'm fairly sure that Hizbollah fits very well.
Anyway it's 3:14 AM here and my writing is badly structured, so I'm going to bed now.
I remember when I was in third form - that's the first year of High school. My mate had brought a plastic toy gun to school - M16 type thing with an orange barrel. Anyway, we were playing with it at lunchtime when a group of 'big kids', (fifteen year-olds,) nicked it from us. They tossed it to each other while I tried to go for the person who had it, each time in vain as the arsehole passed it quickly to his mate. After a short time of this, I locked on to the guy who currently had the gun. I made my way routinely over to him and he, as expected, threw it to his mate. I kept on going and tackled this guy and knocked the shit out of him. He managed one cry of "I don't have it -" before he was knocked down.
I refer to this rather glorious schoolyard memory as it resembles what Israel are doing now. They have tried to weed out the terrorists who keep switching from one sympathetic, (but civillian,) group to the next. Like myself in the schoolyard, Israel are pissed off. Those two soldiers were the last straw, so they're going for the most obvious target and they will bring it down.
Yes there are civillian causualties, there will always be civillian casualties, especially in a war where most of one side is made up of people who consider themselves civillians or who hide behind people who are. Israel needs to teach those people who harbour terrorists in their country to turn the terrorists down. Sooner or later people will start to realise that having terrorist groups in your country is not a good thing, and they will tell them to get the fuck out.
And people, it's a war okay. The only difference is that one side hasn't got it's shit together enough to form an army. A war is generally nation against nation, this does not mean state against state. Hizbollah can most definatly be considered a nation. It is a group of people with the same ideals, willing to die for those ideals. There is symbolism to unite people there is a strong sense of unity in Hizbollah. Although the definition for nationhood is sketchy I'm fairly sure that Hizbollah fits very well.
Anyway it's 3:14 AM here and my writing is badly structured, so I'm going to bed now.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Then we win through your inaction.jonsimon wrote:
Try witty, and its a pretty harsh insult actually. Far more clever than the original poster.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
And if you look to your left, ladies and gentlemen, you will see a failed attempt at being funny.jonsimon wrote:
Sorry, could you move your head first? It's hard to feel around down there with you sucking.
I considered arguing with you bumble heads but I realized you're all far too past the point of no return.
HA.
Don't let this thread devolve into petty insults okay. That goes for both sides.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Didnt use diplomatic means??? Do you even know what you are talking about? They did try to resolve this issue, and the ragheads just smile and say ok, we are sorry, won't happen again. And i a few hours another bombing in Israel. There is nothing to talk about with them, just give a taste of their own juice.Flecco wrote:
France has better rockets to use... But that's beside the point (and Germany would kick their asses again...).Fancy_Pollux wrote:
How often do you see France launching Qassam rockets into Germany?Flecco wrote:
We should stop pussyfooting around with terrorist harboring countries eh? Well, almost every country on earth harbors terrorists. Weather they know it or not...
Israel didn't use diplomatic means to work with the Lebanese government to get rid of Hezbollah with their blessing? Because that's what we did in Australia after the Bali bombings (Yes, Australians were some of the intended targets in that attack....).
Ikarti, drugs are bad for your brain dude.
PS: If your city would get terrorized daily (suicide bombing) by city next door, what would you want your government to do? And FYI there is a suicide bombing in Israel every day. Well guess what, they got tired of that shit. Neither me or any of my family members is a Jew, but i completely support Israel at what they are doing.
Please show me where in BIBLE does it say that Christianity is the only religion, and those who are not a scum of the earth?Ikarti wrote:
I'm not Muslim, but I know a number of them, and they are not hostile towards me nor demanding I convert. They have not tried to suicide bomb me. They just want to be left alone like everyone else.
I don't know what the Quran says exactly, but I know it's filled with contradictions, along with every other religious text.
Okay, what came first, the chicken or the egg?
Did Jews fall out of the sky, or get hatched from an egg? Did Jerusalem not stand occupied by Jews for hundreds of years?
What is all this talk about Jews " taking " land? Why are all the Jew haters only looking into the 20th century for their opinions about the problem?
Jews and Muslims have an equal claim to the land. This nonsense about the Jews being illegal immigrants is ridiculous.
They need to learn how to get along or learn to get used to war.
Did Jews fall out of the sky, or get hatched from an egg? Did Jerusalem not stand occupied by Jews for hundreds of years?
What is all this talk about Jews " taking " land? Why are all the Jew haters only looking into the 20th century for their opinions about the problem?
Jews and Muslims have an equal claim to the land. This nonsense about the Jews being illegal immigrants is ridiculous.
They need to learn how to get along or learn to get used to war.
The thing is, that no matter where the Jews are, they will always be the reason for the shitty life in Muslim community. If lets say Israel was moved to neutral territory, they would still be attacked by......I'll just say terrorists.ATG wrote:
Okay, what came first, the chicken or the egg?
Did Jews fall out of the sky, or get hatched from an egg? Did Jerusalem not stand occupied by Jews for hundreds of years?
What is all this talk about Jews " taking " land? Why are all the Jew haters only looking into the 20th century for their opinions about the problem?
Jews and Muslims have an equal claim to the land. This nonsense about the Jews being illegal immigrants is ridiculous.
They need to learn how to get along or learn to get used to war.
The Ottoman empire came first. They conquered the majority of the middle east and held it for quite some time.ATG wrote:
Okay, what came first, the chicken or the egg?
Did Jews fall out of the sky, or get hatched from an egg? Did Jerusalem not stand occupied by Jews for hundreds of years?
What is all this talk about Jews " taking " land? Why are all the Jew haters only looking into the 20th century for their opinions about the problem?
Jews and Muslims have an equal claim to the land. This nonsense about the Jews being illegal immigrants is ridiculous.
They need to learn how to get along or learn to get used to war.
The Jews aren't taking land, the Israelites are. Israel IS NOT Jewish. There is an extreme majority of Israeli Arabs in Israel than there are Israeli Jews.
Yes, they both have an equal claim.
Agreed, they will either be tolerant or there will be war. It is always so.
Them rotten bastards, why can't they just strap bombs on themselves to blow up civilians in restaurants or fire unguided missiles into crowded suburbs with no warning. Damn them, they need to fight nice like the terrorists.HM1{N} wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/04/mideast.main/index.html
I can now say with all certainty, f*&k Israel. They have taken away every instance of aid. They are blocking aid ships from docking. They are literally starving the people of Lebanon to force them to bend to Israeli will, and they are lying about what they are doing ONCE AGAIN.
Par for the course with that country.
Blockading and enemies port until hostilities stop, how barbaric.
Why don't they use nukes against Lebanon, civilians will die but who cares since that is an acceptable part of war?Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Thank God none of you are or ever will be world leaders. Civilian deaths are part of any war.
Where do you draw the line, when does civlian death become unacceptable.
Your naive logic fails.
not naiive logic - it's simple, plain and obvious fact.
Your childish reality fails.
The line is drawn at intentionally targetting civilians as a larger proportion to military targets.
Your childish reality fails.
The line is drawn at intentionally targetting civilians as a larger proportion to military targets.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Orion5413 wrote:
Then why have they not done anything about them? It is called total war....A general in the union army thought that if you break the will of the population the army will no longer fight. In this case Israel is taking the war to the people. If they don't like being bombed by Israel then they should not have let hezbola attack Israel in the first place....
Yeah, starving Germany after WW1 worked REAL DAMN WELL.
LMFAO at you
Taking the war to the people does one thing : creates more willpower than practically anything else to fight against the enemy. You really think they'll just "back down"?
Last edited by Spearhead (2006-08-05 14:58:28)
You forget why Hezbollah kidnapped the soldiers in the first place, to use in a prisoner exchange swap. Why? Because Israel has held Lebanese and Hezbollah prisoners for almost 3 decades that they promised to release in previous prisoner swaps a long time ago. Israel did not hold up their side of the bargain so you see what is happening now...JG1567JG wrote:
HM1{N} You mention that the UN cant keep track of Israels transgressions. Hezbollah just happens to be part of Lebonons government and the UN wont say a damn thing condemning Hezbollah or Lebanon. Every thing that comes out of the UN mentions Israel specifically and then calls for others orginizations (none by name) to stop the aggression.
Lets see, soldier(s) get kidnapped in gaza strip. Israel starts agressions against the Palestinians. Hezbollah starts fireing rockets into Israel to open up a second front to help the Palestinians. Hezbollah starts getting their ass handed to them by Israel and they beg for the agressions by Isreal to stop.
I just want to know what Israel should do when Hezbollah fires rockets at their towns? Should they just sit back and watch.
P.S. To all you Americans that don't like what Israel is doing, just remember Hezbollah wants you dead too.
I don't condone Hezbollah's actions, but Israel brought it on themselves by not releasing the prisoners they promised to release. How can you justify almost 1000 civilian deaths in 3 weeks? How can you justify the TOTAL DESTRUCTION of civilian homes and infrastructure and compare it the abduction of 2 Israeli soldiers and death of 7?
Yeah, poor Israel. They lie to everyone, keep the prisoners locked up that they are supposed to release, and then murders hundreds of people and destroy their land and homes in the process so they can't return. Sounds a lot like Palestine to me...
What's next, they occupy Lebanon and steal THEIR land so they can build more settlements?
Because they use their military to achieve their terrorist aims.Major_Spittle wrote:
Them rotten bastards, why can't they just strap bombs on themselves to blow up civilians in restaurants or fire unguided missiles into crowded suburbs with no warning. Damn them, they need to fight nice like the terrorists.HM1{N} wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/04/mideast.main/index.html
I can now say with all certainty, f*&k Israel. They have taken away every instance of aid. They are blocking aid ships from docking. They are literally starving the people of Lebanon to force them to bend to Israeli will, and they are lying about what they are doing ONCE AGAIN.
Par for the course with that country.
They have stopped aid, that's the Red Cross, food, medical supplies, water, etc...get a clue. It's genocide on a mass scale.Major_Spittle wrote:
Blockading and enemies port until hostilities stop, how barbaric.