Unfortunately it will be intolerance, death pain and understanding first. Debate 2nd.
Not only could you, but you seem to be doing a rather convincing job of actually doing it right now.Sgt.Zubie wrote:
I'm willing to bet, though no way to prove it. That very few people are like what you're describing. They have there own belief's just like yours. I could generalize like you and say...The larger problem is people want to hide thier heads in the sand and pretend muslim extemeism is not a serious threat and that it will just go away through appeasement and goodwill.
Muslim extremism isn't the problem anyway. The problem is how we handle ourselves in a global theater ... or don't handle ourselves. We do not have a governmental effort to truly understand those who oppose us and pose a serious threat. The magnitude I am speaking of has never been achieved since the end of the cold war. We UNDERSTOOD our enemy. It was easier, it was a declared state. But, given that there is no declared state in this "conflict" we have given up on serious intelligence gathering on the scale which was undertook in the Cold War.
Good point puck, and the fault for it can be laid at Clintons feet.
He signed an executive order disallowing the cia's use of any person as a agent with a criminal background.
It virtually ended boots on the ground intelligence gathering.
He signed an executive order disallowing the cia's use of any person as a agent with a criminal background.
It virtually ended boots on the ground intelligence gathering.
no no no, ATG. Clinton was a democrat. As any news agency will tell you, the problems we now face are solely a product of the republican leadership. Geez ...
Muslim extremism isn't the problem? I think you should re-think that statement. You lost cred with me there. Sure you make some good points, but the ball is rolling now and I hate to tell you but their extremism is never going to go away no matter what we do. Even if we packed up and left the Middle east for good and took Israel with us. You don't get it and neither do many others. But certainly go ahead and stick you're head in the sand and pretend to be enlightened...personally you disgust me.
God damn, I'm going up to bat for ATG here. Hell froze over. He has a point. Muslim extremism would NOT be a problem if we better understood the Muslims BEFORE we started running around making a mess there. Now that hell's broken loose, the gov't wants to know more and more about Muslims, Arabs, Mid East, etc. Trying to hire Arabic speakers. If I'm not mistaken, support for Israel was initially given as part of the whole US vs Soviets deal, you know, the Cold War. It's turned into something else now.Sgt.Zubie wrote:
Muslim extremism isn't the problem? I think you should re-think that statement. You lost cred with me there. Sure you make some good points, but the ball is rolling now and I hate to tell you but their extremism is never going to go away no matter what we do. Even if we packed up and left the Middle east for good and took Israel with us. You don't get it and neither do many others. But certainly go ahead and stick you're head in the sand and pretend to be enlightened...personally you disgust me.
Extremism, whether it be Muslim or Christian, Conservative or Liberal, will NEVER go away. It's a constant. However, certain actions do make the situation worse, and whether it's the actions of individuals or of government policy, the US has made things worse. If we left, I think they'd be a lot less hostile towards the west. Sure you'd have people like Osama left, the die hards, but general hostility would die down.
And telling him he disgusts you because he has a difference of opinion, one that seems to me that ATG doesn't favor the "KILL ALL MUSLIMS" approach while it kinda seems like you do? Childish. Simply childish.
Man, hell hath froze over indeed, but, I must point out that you went to bat for puckmercury.God damn, I'm going up to bat for ATG here.
Last edited by ATG (2006-08-04 22:52:35)
oh damn, that's embarassing, swore I saw your sig under it. Oh well.ATG wrote:
Man, hell hath froze over indeed, but, I must point out that you went to bat for puckmercury.God damn, I'm going up to bat for ATG here.
Admittedly the disgust statement is over the top. Don't worry though the muslims will win so you can be happy. We are to divided to last.
No, the future will resemble some Star Trek like existence where God and religion is studied in history books; something we evolve past and grow out of, for our futures sake.
Ikarti wrote:
oh damn, that's embarassing, swore I saw your sig under it. Oh well.
Last edited by ATG (2006-08-04 23:10:16)
you're dreaming I'm afraid ATG. Nope it will end badly. I don't say this with any happiness I assure you.
Well, when we are done lighting the funeral pyres maybe it would not seem so unrealistic.
I don't get the fatalism over Islam. The OMG WE'RE DOOMED stuff. It's been around since Tours.
Well...it's the " convert to Islam or die " b.s. thats got everybody worked up.
lol, so is that better or worse?Ikarti wrote:
oh damn, that's embarassing, swore I saw your sig under it. Oh well.ATG wrote:
Man, hell hath froze over indeed, but, I must point out that you went to bat for puckmercury.God damn, I'm going up to bat for ATG here.
I disgust you? I postulate that the genesis of the issue is due to a fundamental lack of effort toward a greater understanding and that disgusts you? Before pointing elsewhere to "re-evaluate" their thinking, I suggest you do some serious searching yourself.Sgt.Zubie wrote:
...personally you disgust me
Attack causality, don't attack effect. Treat the root and the rest will have nothing to do but wither away. Muslim extremism is at the magnitude it is at and is attracting such a following because we do stupid shit, and we don't make the effort to understand where we need to.
Last edited by PuckMercury (2006-08-05 10:26:55)
+1 for that Great Line From Great MOvieKEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Remember a few key things here-
Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line
Never get involved in a land war in Asia
+ for the Conan quote
Yeah but if they've been saying it that long and it hasn't happened yet, I doubt it will. Every religion has it's time to shine doing horrible things. Christianity has the middle ages and the inquisitions. Israel and the Muslim extremists have now. In 50 years it may be the mormons or scientologists running amok.ATG wrote:
Well...it's the " convert to Islam or die " b.s. thats got everybody worked up.
I think I'm going nuts. Lowing realizing that Iraq is a waste of time and Alexander saying that this isn't WW3.ATG wrote:
http://i1.tinypic.com/23mk211.jpg
This is not meant to minimize the conflageration in the Middle East or the deaths on all sides. This is meant to calm everybody down who's saying that this is world war 3.
Everybody knows about the U.S. using two atomic bombs against Japan.
Did you know;
In the summer of 1945, the army air force issued an astonishing document. It was a map of Japan with the cities listed that General Lemay had fire scorched. It detailed the percentage of each city burned and compared each city in size to an American city.
These percentages refer not to area bombed or area damaged but to are obliterated, gone, burned, turned to ash. This wasn't artillery damage in which one wall crumbled and the family huddled in a different room. These percentages referred to wastelands---flat desolate ash deserts.
City in Japan Percentage destroyed Comparable American city
Kawasaki 35% Portland
Shimizu 42% San Jose
Hiratsuka 46% Battle Creek
Toyohashi 67% Tulsa
Hammatsu 60% Hartford
Kofu 78% South Bend
Hitachi 72% Little Rock
Tokyo 40% New York
Yokohama 57% Cleveland
Chiba 41% Savannah
Nagoya 40% Los Angeles
Gifu 69% Des Moines
Himeji 49% Peoria
Kobe 55% Baltimore
Osaka 35% Chicago
Shimonoseki 37% San Diego
Moji 24% Spokane
Nagaoka 55% Madison
This report was part of the justification for using atomic weapons on Japan. After so much Death and destruction they still would not surrender. History remembers the atomic bombs, but often overlooks
that many times more were burned to death.
http://i1.tinypic.com/23mk1i1.jpg By the historical definitions of war, the conflict in the Middle East is a limited, regional war. It does have the danger of spreading, but the sobering numbers of dead that will be the result of a world war should keep people from getting out of controll.
Even the Mullahs may not be ready to face a real war, dispite their hot winded rhetoric.
And Israel is not engaged in a slaughter.
http://i2.tinypic.com/23mk3rd.jpg
95% of above is quoted from the book Fly Boys by James Bradley
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= … l%26sa%3DN
People don't realize the horrors we can unleash. They need to, stat.