Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6917|Canberra, AUS
Even the deaf can hear if you shout loud enough.

The Washington Post, this morning (my time) wrote:

"I think it is time to get to a ceasefire

For Rice, a Painful 24 Hours
'Sickened' by News of Deadly Israeli Attack, Secretary Heads for Home

By Robin Wright
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, July 31, 2006; Page A08

JERUSALEM, July 30 -- The bad news for Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice started Saturday night -- the beginning of one of the worst 24-hour periods since she took office 18 months ago.

During an hour-long tête-à-tête at his official residence here, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Israel wanted at least another 10 to 14 days to continue its military operation against Hezbollah in Lebanon, Israeli officials said. The Bush administration, for all its support of Israel's mission to cripple the Iranian-supported Shiite Muslim militia, was growing increasingly uncomfortable with the costs of Israel's response to the July 12 capture of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah, according to U.S. officials.

But Rice also came out of the session thinking she was making progress on the political front. Israel was moving closer to accepting a paper Rice presented -- what U.S. officials call a "framework" -- that contained terms for an end to hostilities. It would form the basis for a new U.N. Security Council resolution to be proposed later this week, she hoped. She would also use it as the basis for talks Sunday on a trip to Beirut, which she had planned but not yet announced, U.S. officials said.

Then, shortly after 1 a.m. Sunday , as Rice slept, some five hours after seeing Olmert, Israeli warplanes bombed civilians in the Lebanese village of Qana, killing at least 57 people, including women and children.

Rice did not learn of the attack until midmorning, during one-on-one talks with Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz in a meeting room on the 10th floor of Jerusalem's David Citadel Hotel. She was "reiterating our strong concern" about civilians killed during the hostilities, she said later. But Peretz did not mention the attack, nor had Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni over breakfast.

Rice found out via e-mail. It came from the U.S. Embassy in Beirut. Assistant Secretary of State C. David Welch got the message and interrupted the meeting to tell her, U.S. officials said.

Rice was "sickened" by the report, a close aide said. "What is this?" she asked Peretz.

Israel was looking into it, Peretz responded, according to U.S. officials. Peretz said he would get back to her. The meeting ended within 15 minutes.

En route to the Middle East last Sunday, in a message repeated in every briefing on the flight, Rice had said the United States was urging Israel "to use restraint and be concerned about civilian populations, innocent civilians and civilian infrastructure." The United States had feared the impact of more civilian deaths on the fragile Lebanese government and a potential backlash in the Arab world.

At 10:29 Sunday morning, Rice made a difficult telephone call. In a conversation with Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora, she expressed her condolences. They both agreed she should abort her trip.

Versions vary on who made the decision. At a news conference, Siniora said, "There is no place on this sad morning for any discussion other than an immediate and unconditional cease-fire, as well as an international investigation into the Israeli massacres in Lebanon now."

In her own subsequent briefing to reporters traveling with her, Rice said, "In the wake of the tragedy that the people and the government of Lebanon are dealing with today, I decided to postpone my discussions in Beirut. In any case, my work today is here."

Rice later described the Lebanese leader, a former finance minister, as "depressed," then corrected herself and said he was "emotional." So was Rice.

Fearing the bombing would scuttle her week-long effort and trigger even deeper anger in the Middle East, the secretary huddled with senior staff members, including Welch, deputy national security adviser Elliot Abrams, Undersecretary of State Karen Hughes and policy planning chief Stephen Krasner. She called President Bush -- the first of three conversations she had with him Sunday. She also called national security adviser Stephen J. Hadley, European Union foreign policy chief Javier Solana and British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett. She then decided to make a statement.

Appearing shaken, Rice spoke shortly after noon. "I am deeply saddened by the terrible loss of innocent life in the bombing in Lebanon this morning," she said. "Too many innocent people -- Lebanese and Israeli -- have suffered. Too many people have lost their lives."

Normally stoic and increasingly forceful in her public briefings in recent months, Rice acknowledged that emotions were running "understandably high." She described the consequences of Israel's attack as "awful" and noted that she was "saddened" that the site was also the place where dozens of civilians had died in an Israeli attack a decade ago. "It's time to get to a cease-fire," she said.

But Rice also denied that the United States bore any responsibility for not demanding an immediate cease-fire when most European and Arab allies did so several days ago. The administration, she said, was working harder than any other party to stop the violence. "We are making real progress on a political framework and believe the parties are coming together on this aspect," she told reporters. "We are already doing really what is at the human limitation to try to get to an end of this conflict."

What she did not yet say was that she was abandoning her diplomatic mission in the region -- and going home Monday. Just after 3 p.m., reporters traveling with Rice were told she would give a brief statement Monday morning and then they would all leave.

Rice spent the afternoon making more calls -- to U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan, Israeli officials, senior State Department staff, and Bush again. At least twice during the afternoon, two of Olmert's advisers -- Dov Weisglass and Shalom Tourgeman -- got back to Rice to say Hezbollah had deployed missiles near the sites that had been attacked, according to U.S. officials.

At 5:30 p.m., Rice went back to see Olmert. They met for roughly an hour and a half. U.S. officials refused to disclose the outcome. Rice had dinner with the Israeli foreign minister -- with whom she had breakfasted -- and then talked to Italian Foreign Minister Massimo D'Alema, co-host of a conference on Lebanon in Rome on Wednesday.

At 8:15 p.m., two senior administration officials came to the press room. "It's easy to be frustrated in a situation like this," said one official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "Now the question is, how do we compose this in a manner that can move things forward toward the goals we always set before?"

The 24-hour period ended -- and then the situation started to turn again.

About midnight Sunday, State Department spokesman J. Adam Ereli summoned Rice's small press corps. "Israel has agreed to a 48-hour suspension of aerial activity in south Lebanon while it investigates today's tragic incident in Qana," he announced. "During this time, Israel will coordinate with the United Nations to allow a 24-hour period of safe passage for all residents of south Lebanon who wish to leave. The United States welcomes this decision and hopes that it will help to relieve the suffering of the children and families of south Lebanon."
Somehow I had a feeling this would happen - the destruction of the anti-Hezbollah TV station a week ago told me as much.

This time I will not blame the US. Kudos to them for pressuring the Israeli govt. and giving us what practically is a 2-day reprieve from airstrikes.

Thoughts?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
RaVeN.sco
Member
+15|6776|Scotland
I just wish the killing would stop.

full stop.
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|6944|New York

Spark wrote:

Even the deaf can hear if you shout loud enough.

The Washington Post, this morning (my time) wrote:

"I think it is time to get to a ceasefire

For Rice, a Painful 24 Hours
'Sickened' by News of Deadly Israeli Attack, Secretary Heads for Home

By Robin Wright
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, July 31, 2006; Page A08

JERUSALEM, July 30 -- The bad news for Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice started Saturday night -- the beginning of one of the worst 24-hour periods since she took office 18 months ago.

During an hour-long tête-à-tête at his official residence here, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Israel wanted at least another 10 to 14 days to continue its military operation against Hezbollah in Lebanon, Israeli officials said. The Bush administration, for all its support of Israel's mission to cripple the Iranian-supported Shiite Muslim militia, was growing increasingly uncomfortable with the costs of Israel's response to the July 12 capture of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah, according to U.S. officials.

But Rice also came out of the session thinking she was making progress on the political front. Israel was moving closer to accepting a paper Rice presented -- what U.S. officials call a "framework" -- that contained terms for an end to hostilities. It would form the basis for a new U.N. Security Council resolution to be proposed later this week, she hoped. She would also use it as the basis for talks Sunday on a trip to Beirut, which she had planned but not yet announced, U.S. officials said.

Then, shortly after 1 a.m. Sunday , as Rice slept, some five hours after seeing Olmert, Israeli warplanes bombed civilians in the Lebanese village of Qana, killing at least 57 people, including women and children.

Rice did not learn of the attack until midmorning, during one-on-one talks with Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz in a meeting room on the 10th floor of Jerusalem's David Citadel Hotel. She was "reiterating our strong concern" about civilians killed during the hostilities, she said later. But Peretz did not mention the attack, nor had Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni over breakfast.

Rice found out via e-mail. It came from the U.S. Embassy in Beirut. Assistant Secretary of State C. David Welch got the message and interrupted the meeting to tell her, U.S. officials said.

Rice was "sickened" by the report, a close aide said. "What is this?" she asked Peretz.

Israel was looking into it, Peretz responded, according to U.S. officials. Peretz said he would get back to her. The meeting ended within 15 minutes.

En route to the Middle East last Sunday, in a message repeated in every briefing on the flight, Rice had said the United States was urging Israel "to use restraint and be concerned about civilian populations, innocent civilians and civilian infrastructure." The United States had feared the impact of more civilian deaths on the fragile Lebanese government and a potential backlash in the Arab world.

At 10:29 Sunday morning, Rice made a difficult telephone call. In a conversation with Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora, she expressed her condolences. They both agreed she should abort her trip.

Versions vary on who made the decision. At a news conference, Siniora said, "There is no place on this sad morning for any discussion other than an immediate and unconditional cease-fire, as well as an international investigation into the Israeli massacres in Lebanon now."

In her own subsequent briefing to reporters traveling with her, Rice said, "In the wake of the tragedy that the people and the government of Lebanon are dealing with today, I decided to postpone my discussions in Beirut. In any case, my work today is here."

Rice later described the Lebanese leader, a former finance minister, as "depressed," then corrected herself and said he was "emotional." So was Rice.

Fearing the bombing would scuttle her week-long effort and trigger even deeper anger in the Middle East, the secretary huddled with senior staff members, including Welch, deputy national security adviser Elliot Abrams, Undersecretary of State Karen Hughes and policy planning chief Stephen Krasner. She called President Bush -- the first of three conversations she had with him Sunday. She also called national security adviser Stephen J. Hadley, European Union foreign policy chief Javier Solana and British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett. She then decided to make a statement.

Appearing shaken, Rice spoke shortly after noon. "I am deeply saddened by the terrible loss of innocent life in the bombing in Lebanon this morning," she said. "Too many innocent people -- Lebanese and Israeli -- have suffered. Too many people have lost their lives."

Normally stoic and increasingly forceful in her public briefings in recent months, Rice acknowledged that emotions were running "understandably high." She described the consequences of Israel's attack as "awful" and noted that she was "saddened" that the site was also the place where dozens of civilians had died in an Israeli attack a decade ago. "It's time to get to a cease-fire," she said.

But Rice also denied that the United States bore any responsibility for not demanding an immediate cease-fire when most European and Arab allies did so several days ago. The administration, she said, was working harder than any other party to stop the violence. "We are making real progress on a political framework and believe the parties are coming together on this aspect," she told reporters. "We are already doing really what is at the human limitation to try to get to an end of this conflict."

What she did not yet say was that she was abandoning her diplomatic mission in the region -- and going home Monday. Just after 3 p.m., reporters traveling with Rice were told she would give a brief statement Monday morning and then they would all leave.

Rice spent the afternoon making more calls -- to U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan, Israeli officials, senior State Department staff, and Bush again. At least twice during the afternoon, two of Olmert's advisers -- Dov Weisglass and Shalom Tourgeman -- got back to Rice to say Hezbollah had deployed missiles near the sites that had been attacked, according to U.S. officials.

At 5:30 p.m., Rice went back to see Olmert. They met for roughly an hour and a half. U.S. officials refused to disclose the outcome. Rice had dinner with the Israeli foreign minister -- with whom she had breakfasted -- and then talked to Italian Foreign Minister Massimo D'Alema, co-host of a conference on Lebanon in Rome on Wednesday.

At 8:15 p.m., two senior administration officials came to the press room. "It's easy to be frustrated in a situation like this," said one official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "Now the question is, how do we compose this in a manner that can move things forward toward the goals we always set before?"

The 24-hour period ended -- and then the situation started to turn again.

About midnight Sunday, State Department spokesman J. Adam Ereli summoned Rice's small press corps. "Israel has agreed to a 48-hour suspension of aerial activity in south Lebanon while it investigates today's tragic incident in Qana," he announced. "During this time, Israel will coordinate with the United Nations to allow a 24-hour period of safe passage for all residents of south Lebanon who wish to leave. The United States welcomes this decision and hopes that it will help to relieve the suffering of the children and families of south Lebanon."
Somehow I had a feeling this would happen - the destruction of the anti-Hezbollah TV station a week ago told me as much.

This time I will not blame the US. Kudos to them for pressuring the Israeli govt. and giving us what practically is a 2-day reprieve from airstrikes.

Thoughts?
Ok i dont see where its giving YOU a reprieve, but it sure is giving the civilians one.

I surely would like to know WHERE is the UN Pressure to stop this? It seems like the US is Taking action while the UN is standing by with open arms but with empty hands. The UN IN FULL needs to pressure BOTH sides of this conflict to stop, from what i see, They are Mostly condeming Isreal for the conflict when in all reality they should send in UN ARMED troops to lebannon and shoot these Missile toating bastards on sight. Tell Isreal to cease fire and go in and take care of this mess.
JahManRed
wank
+646|6870|IRELAND

They did send in UN ARMED troops, but the Israel's spent a day using them a artillery practice before calling in an air strike and killing them despite numerous calls to halt the attacks. Then artied the extraction team sent in to recover their bodies. The sooner we all realize that the UN is toothless and powerless the better. As long as the Israels have the support of America the UN can do shit all. After all when did America or Israel ever listen to a thing the UN says. I think Rice is showing her womanly side, with raw emotion coming out caught by the media traveling with her. But as we all know its white men that make the final decisions in the US. Wouldn't surprise me if after 24hours the bombing starts with Americas full support again.
So nice of them to allow the Innocent civilians to leave their houses which are being bombed indiscriminately and not be strafed by gunships while they leave everything they know behind to get blown to shit.

Last edited by JahManRed (2006-07-31 05:27:19)

schakl
Member
+21|6931
It's so senseless. After Israel stopps attacks the Hisbollah will start new and become much stronger because now lots of previous moderate Libanese people are aggressive. Violence will never end something like terrorism. But what do you expect from a country where people shot their presidents if they are close to make peace with their neighbours.
BVC
Member
+325|6938

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

I surely would like to know WHERE is the UN Pressure to stop this? It seems like the US is Taking action while the UN is standing by with open arms but with empty hands. The UN IN FULL needs to pressure BOTH sides of this conflict to stop, from what i see, They are Mostly condeming Isreal for the conflict when in all reality they should send in UN ARMED troops to lebannon and shoot these Missile toating bastards on sight. Tell Isreal to cease fire and go in and take care of this mess.
The US vetoed the resolution condeming Israel's actions.  If the US is going to pull that sort of shit theres not really a lot the UN can do is there?  Why try and do something about it if you know the US is just going to step in and veto whatever you're trying to do, it stinks.  Kudos for negotiating a 48hr reprieve though.

Last edited by Pubic (2006-07-31 05:32:17)

BN
smells like wee wee
+159|7010

RaVeN.sco wrote:

I just wish the killing would stop.

full stop.
Amen to that
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7014|PNW

I had a the perfect political cartoon with which to respond to this, but alas...I cannot find it, so here's an irrelevant image instead:
https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/unnamednewbie13/supermariowar.jpg

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-07-31 06:13:43)

kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6791|Southeastern USA
"to use restraint and be concerned about civilian populations, innocent civilians and civilian infrastructure."

had they not show restraint, there would be no south labanon, a cease fire is exactly what hezbollah wants, tell me if Hezbollah is firing from civilian populated areas, using ambulances for transport and supply running, and preventing civilians from leaving areas Israel notifies that they are about to strike (how many wars can you remember that ever happening), why isn't everyone trying to put the blame on Hezbollah. Funny how Israel still gets blamed when we've found e-mails and reports of Hezbollah firing from UN outposts, you know, as if they expected the return fire to strike the outpost, from the dead UN soldiers themselves. If you still don't want to blame "the peace loving nation of Islam" then you should at least blame the tactical geniuses that decided to keep the UN troops at the post, even sharing water and telephone facilities with the hezzies.

nothing at all in appropriate here
https://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9692/hezlove002bl4.jpg
those poor "innocent" women and children  (granted the old lady's pretty funny)
https://img180.imageshack.us/img180/1406/palifashion002ke5.jpg
https://img355.imageshack.us/img355/7307/rpgladyor8.jpg

just to explain things really simply for you
https://img355.imageshack.us/img355/8388/hezlove003vp9.jpg
can you spot the difference?

edit: that's a hezzie flag next to the UN one, for those that don't know

Last edited by kr@cker (2006-07-31 06:19:38)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7014|PNW

Kracker's last image is almost exactly like the one I was about to post, only in a different context.
RadioKon
Member
+2|6825|Atlanta, GA
Nice post kr@cker! I did get a chuckle outa granny's rpg.  +1

I'm not 100% sure I believe this alleged killing of civilians.  Would it not be easy to stock pile a building with some dead bodies.  Since its so convenient that Lebanon doesn't have the equipment to dig it out.  All they have to do is to prep the building in the morning, fire some rockets in the night then let it get bombed the next day.  Just a thought no were near fact.
This is the helzaboh's way of winning the minds of the world.  But I cant really put any stock into any people that regularly sends suicide bombers.
In all fairness the other article posted on CNN should be read along side this one. 
I also think its funny how big of a deal this is being made into.  At first glance its going to be a accident and probably will stay as such.  No one thinks about all the NON accidents of Israeli restaurants being bombed with children eating inside.  Funny how short the medias memory is.

But I will say this:  I agree that the conflict should be resolved and quickly.  This has the makings of world war ready to be sprung in my opinion.  But so long as jews exist arab states wont stop.
jonsimon
Member
+224|6737

kr@cker wrote:

"to use restraint and be concerned about civilian populations, innocent civilians and civilian infrastructure."

had they not show restraint, there would be no south labanon, a cease fire is exactly what hezbollah wants, tell me if Hezbollah is firing from civilian populated areas, using ambulances for transport and supply running, and preventing civilians from leaving areas Israel notifies that they are about to strike (how many wars can you remember that ever happening), why isn't everyone trying to put the blame on Hezbollah. Funny how Israel still gets blamed when we've found e-mails and reports of Hezbollah firing from UN outposts, you know, as if they expected the return fire to strike the outpost, from the dead UN soldiers themselves. If you still don't want to blame "the peace loving nation of Islam" then you should at least blame the tactical geniuses that decided to keep the UN troops at the post, even sharing water and telephone facilities with the hezzies.

nothing at all in appropriate here
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9692 … 002bl4.jpg
those poor "innocent" women and children  (granted the old lady's pretty funny)
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/1406 … 002ke5.jpg
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/7307/rpgladyor8.jpg

just to explain things really simply for you
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/8388 … 003vp9.jpg
can you spot the difference?

edit: that's a hezzie flag next to the UN one, for those that don't know
Oh shut up kracker. There is no proof beside Israel's word that Hezbollah millitants are attacking Israel from positions like that. Why is that? Because Israel killed the UN observers and destroyed every mode of communication outside the country. Israel doesn't want us to know the truth. As for leaving the cities ahead of time, people have tried, their busses are now scrap from Israeli bombs. Besides, where would they go? The major roads are all destroyed. By ISRAEL. See a pattern?

Picture 1&2: That's actually a picture of a palestinian lady and palestinian children. If you hadn't noticed, Palestinians are in Palestine, not LEBANNON. Totally irrelevant to this conversation.

Picture 3: Again, PALESTINIANS ARE NOT IN LEBANNON. Besides, its a cartoon, I could draw a cartoon of you shooting your own grandmother, would that somehow bring it into reality?
And again, there is no proof hezbollah fires behind a civillian sheild, only Israel's word.

Last edited by jonsimon (2006-07-31 06:49:27)

kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6791|Southeastern USA
No proof other than report after report by the UN's own "peace keeping" force that the hezzies have been firing from the rooftops of hospitals, schools, etc. as well as right next to the UN bases.

#1 Is a picture of the UN flag flying right next to the hezbollah flag, proof that they were using UN outposts as bases of operations, so what? So calling "I got base, you can't hit me" is not really a sound war strategy.

#2 Is a picture of children. If you hadn't noticed, children are children, not a lady

#3 Hamas/Hezbollah/PLO/PLF are all the same, the only difference is which direction on the compass you look to see where the rockets are coming from if your a jew.

#2&3 are both pictures of your average everyday "destroy the jews" organization, neither are irrelevant because of what's shown in #4......

#4 Is the cartoon, just an illustration again of how all the conflicts are the same, they all use the same tactics and have the same suppliers, maybe I'll just photoshop in a green armband over the flag, since that's the universal "destroy Israel" banner.

and there are volumes of proof (other than your beloved UN's own reports), the easiest way to illustrate it, oh wise one, would be to ask you in your infinite tactical prowess to point out on a map the military base that hezbollah operates from.

edit: nice edit

Last edited by kr@cker (2006-07-31 07:15:31)

jonsimon
Member
+224|6737

kr@cker wrote:

No proof other than report after report by the UN's own "peace keeping" force that the hezzies have been firing from the rooftops of hospitals, schools, etc. as well as right next to the UN bases.

#1 Is a picture of the UN flag flying right next to the hezbollah flag, proof that they were using UN outposts as bases of operations, so what? So calling "I got base, you can't hit me" is not really a sound war strategy.

#2 Is a picture of children. If you hadn't noticed, children are children, not a lady

#3 Hamas/Hezbollah/PLO/PLF are all the same, the only difference is which direction on the compass you look to see where the rockets are coming from if your a jew.

#2&3 are both pictures of your average everyday "destroy the jews" organization, neither are irrelevant because of what's shown in #4......

#4 Is the cartoon, just an illustration again of how all the conflicts are the same, they all use the same tactics and have the same suppliers, maybe I'll just photoshop in a green armband over the flag, since that's the universal "destroy Israel" banner.

and there are volumes of proof (other than your beloved UN's own reports), the easiest way to illustrate it, oh wise one, would be to ask you in your infinite tactical prowess to point out on a map the military base that hezbollah operates from.

edit: nice edit
Sorry misnumbered the pictures, forgot about the flags. Which are also pointless, because anyone can fly a flag.

Yes, obviously all arabs are the same, and they all hate jews. And they all want to destroy the world because it doesnt all worship allah. Youre not racist at ALL. </SARCASM>

Volumes of proof eh? Show me.
Jusster
Pimpin aint Easy
+11|6719|H-Town
Believe Isreal? NEVER

Remember the USS LIBERTY?


Heres a link for those of you who don't know

http://www.ussliberty.org/


Jusster

Last edited by Jusster (2006-08-03 11:40:54)

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