You have last say Ricardo...I will not respond again.
I do not see value in debating with you about this topic anymore, I've made my points.
I do not see value in debating with you about this topic anymore, I've made my points.
This is not a good way to intially respond. It's an aggressive, condescending response that is intended to spark flames of aggression. You added the "penny's dropped...congrats!" on the end to close. Also an unecessary comment.RichardBlanco wrote:
What the fuck did you expect, you joined the bloody army??!!? Last time I checked killing people is what armies do...sounds like you were pretty un-fucking-informed when you went to war but glad to know the penny's dropped...congrats!
This was a more civilized way to respond. How come this wasn't posted first?RichardBlanco wrote:
If he didn't think he was going to have to kill people or see some horrendous things he shouldn't have joined. I still maintain that people don't talk about what they've done in war because they're guilty about it, simple as. I would never object to anyone who served in the Great Wars, the just ones, or any other JUST war.
KJ
The topic was "I now know why" and I still assert the OP should have known this before he joined. Long before.Pug wrote:
I believe the topic was "War is hard on soldiers". Not about debating the merits of why he was there. So, I asked you to stay on topic - reread my post.
Perhaps..Pug wrote:
I'm sure that my education is as equal as yours.
Again, sorry, but it IS a last resort. I have literally just asked the same question to my local cornershop owner and he said "well if I couldn't do anything else I might consider it." You could accuse him of being elitist too but not many corner shop owners fit that glove.Pug wrote:
The idea of a "last resort" comment is basically painting you as an elitist. So, based on this I think you are a few things I despise. It's also possible why you are being flamed by everyone...But I respect your opinions..
No, it's morally incorrect! If you call blindly following the crowd and going into an unjust war under false pretenses 'service' then sorry if I don't thank the guy. If he's suffered some kind of trauma because of what he's seen or done well, he made the choice, he's got to live with it.Pug wrote:
All I'm asking you to do Ricardo is to show some respect - tell the guy thanks for his service! It's not politically incorrect to tell someone thanks even though you don't agree with the big picture.
ok would you stop insulting ppl who have been in army, this thread isnt about why you shouldnt join the army coz you see your buddies die, its about why soldiers dont talk about war
They don't talk about it because they feel guilty about what they've done...I don't blame them.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
ok would you stop insulting ppl who have been in army, this thread isnt about why you shouldnt join the army coz you see your buddies die, its about why soldiers dont talk about war
Okay, I lied. One more statement.RicardoBlanco wrote:
No, it's morally incorrect! If you call blindly following the crowd and going into an unjust war under false pretenses 'service' then sorry if I don't thank the guy. If he's suffered some kind of trauma because of what he's seen or done well, he made the choice, he's got to live with it.Pug wrote:
All I'm asking you to do Ricardo is to show some respect - tell the guy thanks for his service! It's not politically incorrect to tell someone thanks even though you don't agree with the big picture.
Thank you for finally making your statement clearly, finally.
We disagree and that's okay with me.
You have a polarizing effect on many topics (aka your views are extreme and you are passionate about it), By all means continue - I'm sure we will do this again...soon.
It involves among other things winning hearts and minds.RicardoBlanco wrote:
#Alexanderthegrape wrote:
Gunsligers not a fool, he's a passionate warrior. He's learning Farsi so he can go back and reenlist in pysops. He believes in winning the hearts and minds and the cause. He may be bombastic but please don't call him a fool.
He's going to re-enlist in Psyops AND win hearts and minds?? Do you know what Psyops is?
Pug wrote:
You have last say Ricardo...I will not respond again.
I do not see value in debating with you about this topic anymore, I've made my points.
they were doing their jobs, they know this, what its about is the trauma in war about their buddies.RicardoBlanco wrote:
They don't talk about it because they feel guilty about what they've done...I don't blame them.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
ok would you stop insulting ppl who have been in army, this thread isnt about why you shouldnt join the army coz you see your buddies die, its about why soldiers dont talk about war
Having just found and read this thread I felt I should add my thoughts:
I kinda agree with RB (not his style though) on the point , that in Britain anyway, the Army (Grunt work) is the last resort for people with a higher education. Those with degrees can go on and do Officer Training, the Army actually pay for them to go through Uni (both Princes are in the Army). Generally the Army is for those with a lower level of education or for those who really wish to join up. Also for the OP, its not rocket science that if your in the Army then you may have to go to war or kill someone.
As for RB's social status (mummy and daddy paid for everything)...lucky him, I hope he feels privilaged that he was given such a chance and he puts it to good use. I did well at HS, ive been to uni and im currently working in IT, paid for everything myself, im in debt but at least my parents arent. Now if nothing good comes along I am considering joining one of the Armed Forces (dunno which yet) for many reasons both professional and personal but my biggest concern is could I handle killing someone? I've never done it or been around it so I dont know, but I've grown up wanting to go into the Forces. Time will tell.
As for all those who have served esp in a warzone, hats off to you, your a bigger man than i am and im not afraid to admit it. I have had friends go and fortunately come back and they dont talk too much bout what they have seen or done. My sisters bf was in the first Gulf War (paras) and some of the stories hes told me are.....!!! Anyway Slinger et al glad your home safe and sound and that you work through your personal issues, you've got a whole forum to help keep your chin up
Also why do a lot of Americans take a different POV to theirs as a personal attack? In UK we critsise our Prime Minister ALL the time. Its one way we (as the public) can change the Gov't's stance. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn;t give you the right to get all hyped up and mad!! Im not slating the people here I have just noticed this on the forums.
Im here for a debate not an arguement.
Cheers
Tino
I kinda agree with RB (not his style though) on the point , that in Britain anyway, the Army (Grunt work) is the last resort for people with a higher education. Those with degrees can go on and do Officer Training, the Army actually pay for them to go through Uni (both Princes are in the Army). Generally the Army is for those with a lower level of education or for those who really wish to join up. Also for the OP, its not rocket science that if your in the Army then you may have to go to war or kill someone.
As for RB's social status (mummy and daddy paid for everything)...lucky him, I hope he feels privilaged that he was given such a chance and he puts it to good use. I did well at HS, ive been to uni and im currently working in IT, paid for everything myself, im in debt but at least my parents arent. Now if nothing good comes along I am considering joining one of the Armed Forces (dunno which yet) for many reasons both professional and personal but my biggest concern is could I handle killing someone? I've never done it or been around it so I dont know, but I've grown up wanting to go into the Forces. Time will tell.
As for all those who have served esp in a warzone, hats off to you, your a bigger man than i am and im not afraid to admit it. I have had friends go and fortunately come back and they dont talk too much bout what they have seen or done. My sisters bf was in the first Gulf War (paras) and some of the stories hes told me are.....!!! Anyway Slinger et al glad your home safe and sound and that you work through your personal issues, you've got a whole forum to help keep your chin up
Also why do a lot of Americans take a different POV to theirs as a personal attack? In UK we critsise our Prime Minister ALL the time. Its one way we (as the public) can change the Gov't's stance. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn;t give you the right to get all hyped up and mad!! Im not slating the people here I have just noticed this on the forums.
Im here for a debate not an arguement.
Cheers
Tino
Are your sure you live in England and not FRANCE? FUCKING PUSSYRicardoBlanco wrote:
What the fuck did you expect, you joined the bloody army??!!? Last time I checked killing people is what armies do...sounds like you were pretty un-fucking-informed when you went to war but glad to know the penny's dropped...congrats!warum wrote:
I don't know how many of you have relatives who have fought in a war but it is really hard for them to talk about it.I now understand why.First of all a little history about me and my family. My great grandfather fought in world war 1 but un fortunately he died at beaumont hamel.My grand father fought in world war 2 but luckily he survived.My father was in the military but never went to war.I served in Iraq. It was one of the worst things i've ever gone through.I lost a lot of buddies and saw a lot of atrocities from both sides.I still have nightmares but i've been told that they never go away.I got back about six months ago but i don't think i will ever be able to tell anyone what happened.Not even the guys who served with me talk about what happened. We talk about all the good times,the few we had,but never about the bad stuff. So now i understand why my grandfather couldn't talk about the war, but he always tells me about all the trouble he got into while in england. My grandfather was a ladies man and i'am sure i have some relatives in england.haha. Anyway i'am writing this because i think people need to hear about the people who fight these wars so they are more informed when they post to war threads.
warum....what did u do....did u fix up all the hummves for the troops to drive? demolitions? i was just curious...no need to respond
I believe its a cultural difference. The UK has had a government system that has had a wide separation between the government and the citizens. Therefore it's easy to be anti-government and not anti-citizen.tiptopT wrote:
Also why do a lot of Americans take a different POV to theirs as a personal attack?
Tino
Americans blur that line or the line is very close because the government system has always been more idealic (sp?).
I've had relatives who served in the WW's, who didn't talk about it. It's just something you can't talk about with people who have not been through it. I asked, but was told it's nothing I'd want to go through, but something they'd gladly do again if they had to.RicardoBlanco wrote:
I didn't say he was an idiot, just seriously misinformed, which he was. If he didn't think he was going to have to kill people or see some horrendous things he shouldn't have joined. I still maintain that people don't talk about what they've done in war because they're guilty about it, simple as. I would never object to anyone who served in the Great Wars, the just ones, or any other JUST war.Pug wrote:
You got flamed for going there first, check the thread. You flamed the originator and everyone slapped you around. And I guess you did not read the first post close enough to understand it throughly. It says war is hard on soldiers. You insulted the orginator, and everyone who has ever served or is serving.RicardoBlanco wrote:
Just because someone comes from the "school of hard knocks", whatever the hell that is, doesn't excuse them or justify irrational behaviour. If Gunslinger wants to fight in a war he doesn't beleive in and then try and convince me of the merrits of said war or the actions of his buddies over there I'm sory, but I will beg to differ.
I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they prove themselves to be fools, which, in this case, he did..
A better way of putting your thoughts on this would have been: Wow that's really hard. I wish you wouldn't have had to go there and fight. I disagree with the war.
Not: you are an idiot for signing up for the army.
For someone who has such a "quality" education should know that you can not make these kind statements that are not in your field of profession. Unless you are a psychiatrist. You are only qualified to say that you think they feel guilty but are in no way able to make it an actual diagnosis. You do not know why he cannot talk about it, unless you have spent the time with the soldiers and actually talk to them and find out why.RicardoBlanco wrote:
They don't talk about it because they feel guilty about what they've done...I don't blame them.
GOOD DAY SIR!
You'll notice a pattern, this only happens when one of a certain half dozen or so assholes turn up in a particular thread, assholes who for some reason can't just let a thread like this go in peace and have to turn it into a flame war, this thread began as a recognition of the traumatic experiences that ANY defender of freedom must experience whether they are American/Canadian/German/British/Etc., and look who shows up and starts defecating all over it.=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:
Why is you can't critisise something without people turning into a "you hate our country" thing.
I think its a tragedy that ordinary people are subjected to the horrors of war with little idea of what they may see or do, in the modern world a large a military is obsolete and any 'dirty work' should be done by trained nuttaz (ie seals, sas etc). America should solve its problems through diplomacy and, when there are no other options, small scale and WELL THOUGHT OUT military action. England went through years of hunting down the ira and while we fucked on occasion we never contemplated air strikes etc (although imo thats because they they werent muslim:) ). Its not good that people come out of the army with shitty memories and its dubyas fault, i would never belittle what a soldier goes through but ill sure as hell flame the people who put him there. On one hand you guys should of been aware of what to expect but on the other you were talked into it by dubyas call to arms and thats crappy, i suggest bury the memories and don't dig em up on a public forum.
France is the reason there is an america...and I do have a house there.Zilla wrote:
Are your sure you live in England and not FRANCE? FUCKING PUSSYRicardoBlanco wrote:
What the fuck did you expect, you joined the bloody army??!!? Last time I checked killing people is what armies do...sounds like you were pretty un-fucking-informed when you went to war but glad to know the penny's dropped...congrats!warum wrote:
I don't know how many of you have relatives who have fought in a war but it is really hard for them to talk about it.I now understand why.First of all a little history about me and my family. My great grandfather fought in world war 1 but un fortunately he died at beaumont hamel.My grand father fought in world war 2 but luckily he survived.My father was in the military but never went to war.I served in Iraq. It was one of the worst things i've ever gone through.I lost a lot of buddies and saw a lot of atrocities from both sides.I still have nightmares but i've been told that they never go away.I got back about six months ago but i don't think i will ever be able to tell anyone what happened.Not even the guys who served with me talk about what happened. We talk about all the good times,the few we had,but never about the bad stuff. So now i understand why my grandfather couldn't talk about the war, but he always tells me about all the trouble he got into while in england. My grandfather was a ladies man and i'am sure i have some relatives in england.haha. Anyway i'am writing this because i think people need to hear about the people who fight these wars so they are more informed when they post to war threads.
I've never seen him post before, Kracker.Dynasty(KIP) wrote:
Jackass of the day goes to....Ricardo! All I can say is thank you for your service and the service of your family. It's people like you who allow people like Ricardo here to make idiots of themselves. America is proud of your service warum.
Last edited by Bubbalo (2006-07-29 00:23:54)
CheersPug wrote:
I believe its a cultural difference. The UK has had a government system that has had a wide separation between the government and the citizens. Therefore it's easy to be anti-government and not anti-citizen.tiptopT wrote:
Also why do a lot of Americans take a different POV to theirs as a personal attack?
Tino
Americans blur that line or the line is very close because the government system has always been more idealic (sp?).
Also in Britain I think "class" plays a huge part in it too. TBH people with RB's background (but with the im better than you mentality because im rich) piss the hell out of me! You see it all the time at Edinburgh Uni, all the "Ya's" stoating about thinking they are amazing, until they piss off a common wee fuck like me There will always be that divide and it will always be needed. Everyone has their place. (think im still on topic!!!)
yes! and i really think BF2 is the right way to get those nasty nightmares away.warum wrote:
I don't know how many of you have relatives who have fought in a war but it is really hard for them to talk about it.I now understand why.First of all a little history about me and my family. My great grandfather fought in world war 1 but un fortunately he died at beaumont hamel.My grand father fought in world war 2 but luckily he survived.My father was in the military but never went to war.I served in Iraq. It was one of the worst things i've ever gone through.I lost a lot of buddies and saw a lot of atrocities from both sides.I still have nightmares but i've been told that they never go away.I got back about six months ago but i don't think i will ever be able to tell anyone what happened.Not even the guys who served with me talk about what happened. We talk about all the good times,the few we had,but never about the bad stuff. So now i understand why my grandfather couldn't talk about the war, but he always tells me about all the trouble he got into while in england. My grandfather was a ladies man and i'am sure i have some relatives in england.haha. Anyway i'am writing this because i think people need to hear about the people who fight these wars so they are more informed when they post to war threads.
and if you think war is so terrible, why do you have a bar in your sig saying that you are ready for WWIII?
just a thought.