the alcoholism is genetic and unavoidable, and the native americans are indeed american citizens
They could indeed. Are you suggesting Israel pays the Palestinians loads of money in reparations. If so, I think thats a great idea - if they halved their military budget gave the rest to the Palestinians, that might work really well - see how many anti-Israeli terrorists Palestine produces when Israel fund their health care system for example. The improved quality of life would lead to a MASSIVE reduction in terrorism. I know it won't ever happen, but we can only live in hope.rawls2 wrote:
Hell yeah!! Although they suffer a high rate of alcohalism they are doing very well. We gave them land and said do what you will. And they built casino resorts which are now funding schools, hospitals, housing, etc. Further more, the generations of Indians to come will be even more better off because they will take full advantage of schools, hospitals, housing, etc. The Palestinians could take lessons from our Native Americans on how to continue to exist and progress their race into the future.oug wrote:
So what you're saying is that Native Americans are better off now living in shitty reservations in the middle of nowhere? Don't think so...ﻍﻏﺱﺖﻇﻸﮚ wrote:
Your analogy with natve americans would work under other circumstances'
Namely that the indians would have had to attack and kill the pilgrims in regular attempts to force them out of thier land instead of trading and living with them like they did. Then the pilgrims would have had to suffer many riots and attempts to eradicate them then find foreign approval *see un* for segregating the populations to limit the violence. Furthermore after that the pilgrims would have to succeed in defending themselves from 4 different multinational coalitions that attempted to destroy them ...
Then that analogy is fair
Comparing the plight the indians suffered to the Palestinians is a joke..
The increased tourism in Palestine as tourists flock to visit their casinos would bring in a lot of cash too.
Last edited by Bertster7 (2006-07-27 15:12:59)
Yes, because we all know how Muslims love to live lives of excessBertster7 wrote:
The increased tourism in Palestine as tourists flock to visit their casinos would bring in a lot of cash too.
Hezbollah fighters may have used the outpost as cover. OK. This still doesn't justify the bombing of it.
An analogy - If a soldier uses a civilian as a shield, and the enemy kills the civilian while shooting at the soldier, is that ok?
An analogy - If a soldier uses a civilian as a shield, and the enemy kills the civilian while shooting at the soldier, is that ok?
Not that hushed, I've listened to the interview on CBC radio with Major General Mackenzie and if true (quite likely, yet strange that Israel have not used this as an excuse publicly, although the fact that the UN have not totally condemned the attack seems to support this) explains why Israel hit the UN outpost. However they should not have been using airstrikes to deal with this type of situation, rather they should have sent in troops on the ground to minimise collateral damage - although minimising collateral damage has never been the IDFs strong point.
A bit like comanders in BF2 who are a bit over zealous with artillery strikes.
Last edited by Bertster7 (2006-07-27 15:37:33)
America just got the ball rolling for them. The Natives did the rest on their own. Listen people its time those ME countries accept the situation at hand and do the best with what they got. If they stop trying destroy Israel and start trying to better themselves, everyone in the world will be giving them money to help them evolve into a legitimate country. Its called investing in emerging markets.Bertster7 wrote:
They could indeed. Are you suggesting Israel pays the Palestinians loads of money in reparations. If so, I think thats a great idea - if they halved their military budget gave the rest to the Palestinians, that might work really well - see how many anti-Israeli terrorists Palestine produces when Israel fund their health care system for example. The improved quality of life would lead to a MASSIVE reduction in terrorism. I know it won't ever happen, but we can only live in hope.rawls2 wrote:
Hell yeah!! Although they suffer a high rate of alcohalism they are doing very well. We gave them land and said do what you will. And they built casino resorts which are now funding schools, hospitals, housing, etc. Further more, the generations of Indians to come will be even more better off because they will take full advantage of schools, hospitals, housing, etc. The Palestinians could take lessons from our Native Americans on how to continue to exist and progress their race into the future.oug wrote:
So what you're saying is that Native Americans are better off now living in shitty reservations in the middle of nowhere? Don't think so...
The increased tourism in Palestine as tourists flock to visit their casinos would bring in a lot of cash too.
Last edited by rawls2 (2006-07-27 15:55:26)
True, but what's the use of continuing the fight as the Hez if you must resort to using these shields? My answer: They aren't ready to negotiate until the terms are more favorable OR are hoping for a larger conflict.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Hezbollah fighters may have used the outpost as cover. OK. This still doesn't justify the bombing of it.
An analogy - If a soldier uses a civilian as a shield, and the enemy kills the civilian while shooting at the soldier, is that ok?
They clearly are hoping for a larger conflict. They knew and expected a heavy-handed response to come from Israel. And Israel obliged.Pug wrote:
True, but what's the use of continuing the fight as the Hez if you must resort to using these shields? My answer: They aren't ready to negotiate until the terms are more favorable OR are hoping for a larger conflict.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Hezbollah fighters may have used the outpost as cover. OK. This still doesn't justify the bombing of it.
An analogy - If a soldier uses a civilian as a shield, and the enemy kills the civilian while shooting at the soldier, is that ok?
Yep, odds? I'm thinking 10-1 within ten years, and that sucks.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
They clearly are hoping for a larger conflict. They knew and expected a heavy-handed response to come from Israel. And Israel obliged.
I also want to state for the record that I love you in a non-homo way.
Thats not going to happen though is it. Why? Because the Palestinian people hate the Israelis because of years of oppression, the only way this will stop is if Israel (which is supposed to be the most civilised state in the region) makes large enough concessions (the return of the Gaza strip was a start, next the West Bank and return the Arab half of Jerusalem which the Israelis annexed in the '60s) the terrorism will stop. If they don't give the terrorists a reason to hate them (which they currently do every day) there will be no terrorism.rawls2 wrote:
America just got the ball rolling for them. The Natives did the rest on their own. Listen people its time those ME countries accept the situation at hand and do the best with what they got. If they stop trying destroy Israel and start trying to better themselves, everyone in the world will be giving them money to help them evolve into a legitimate country. Its called investing in emerging markets.
These sorts of conflicts occur all over the world, but usually in 3rd world countries (like all over Africa). Israel, however, is a (supposedly) civilised 1st world state and so should take the responsibility for sorting this out.
If Palestinians hate Israeli's like you claim then whats the point of concessions? Palestinians wont stop until there is no more Israel anywhere. Israel will not let themselves be exterminated. So they will go toe to toe until........forever. Why forever? Let me tell you why. Israel are civilized and understand the need to coexist with the natives, ie Palestinians. If Israel was not civil but rather barbaric like so many on this forum think, then Palestinian people would have been carpet bombed or nuked to oblivion. But rather Israel just contains them in their little area and wont let them out until they learn to behave. When this happens they will be free to rome all over Israel and build little villages called New Palestine.
The Palestinians at the moment have every reason to hate the Israelis, just think how pissed off you would be in their situation with a much more powerful state taking your land - displacing you, your family and friends from their homes and killing lots of your friends and family. I'd hate them.rawls2 wrote:
If Palestinians hate Israeli's like you claim then whats the point of concessions? Palestinians wont stop until there is no more Israel anywhere. Israel will not let themselves be exterminated. So they will go toe to toe until........forever. Why forever? Let me tell you why. Israel are civilized and understand the need to coexist with the natives, ie Palestinians. If Israel was not civil but rather barbaric like so many on this forum think, then Palestinian people would have been carpet bombed or nuked to oblivion. But rather Israel just contains them in their little area and wont let them out until they learn to behave. When this happens they will be free to rome all over Israel and build little villages called New Palestine.
The point I have been making, which you seem to have missed entirely, is that if you remove their reason to hate them - the terrorism will stop, nothing else (short of your genocidal solution) will stop the terrorists. Military action will just breed more terrorism, once this is accepted the cycle of violence can stop.
I'm sure Israel would like nothing better than to carpet bomb all the surrounding Arab states, but they can't because of fear of reprisals from the international community.
Last edited by Bertster7 (2006-07-27 16:39:54)
What I missed in the point you are trying to make has been covered in the last 1363 posts. My point is look at the big picture. They are both there. They both hate each other. Israel could wipe them off the Earth. Palestinians can only scratch Israel. Israel are the good guys. Palestinians need to adapt to a new world.
Israel is far from being exterminated. It’s the most powerful country in the region and one of the most powerful in the world. Its political influence reaches all the way across the world as does the Mossad and its spying network. It’s like showing sympathy for the school yard bully.rawls2 wrote:
If Palestinians hate Israeli's like you claim then whats the point of concessions? Palestinians wont stop until there is no more Israel anywhere. Israel will not let themselves be exterminated. So they will go toe to toe until........forever. Why forever? Let me tell you why. Israel are civilized and understand the need to coexist with the natives, ie Palestinians. If Israel was not civil but rather barbaric like so many on this forum think, then Palestinian people would have been carpet bombed or nuked to oblivion. But rather Israel just contains them in their little area and wont let them out until they learn to behave. When this happens they will be free to rome all over Israel and build little villages called New Palestine.
Where these situations are resolved is ALWAYS when the larger more powerful nation makes sufficient concessions to keep the terrorists/freedom fighters happy. A perfect example of this is the British occupation of Ireland. Which has been resolved by the British handing Ireland back, making concessions.
The same is true of every terrorist campaign throughout history.
Thats what needs to happen in Israel - the larger, richer, more powerful state taking responsibility for sorting it out - that's how it's always been, that's how it always will be.
Except for genocide (which a lot of people on this forum seem to condone), Israel making major concessions is the only way forwards.
The same is true of every terrorist campaign throughout history.
Thats what needs to happen in Israel - the larger, richer, more powerful state taking responsibility for sorting it out - that's how it's always been, that's how it always will be.
Except for genocide (which a lot of people on this forum seem to condone), Israel making major concessions is the only way forwards.
I never said Israel was close to bieng exterminated. I just said they wouldn't let themselves for the reasons you mentioned. I dont think they are the school yard bull, but rather the school nerd everyone picked on that grew up and became smarter, better looking, and richer than those who made fun of them.BN wrote:
Israel is far from being exterminated. It’s the most powerful country in the region and one of the most powerful in the world. Its political influence reaches all the way across the world as does the Mossad and its spying network. It’s like showing sympathy for the school yard bully.rawls2 wrote:
If Palestinians hate Israeli's like you claim then whats the point of concessions? Palestinians wont stop until there is no more Israel anywhere. Israel will not let themselves be exterminated. So they will go toe to toe until........forever. Why forever? Let me tell you why. Israel are civilized and understand the need to coexist with the natives, ie Palestinians. If Israel was not civil but rather barbaric like so many on this forum think, then Palestinian people would have been carpet bombed or nuked to oblivion. But rather Israel just contains them in their little area and wont let them out until they learn to behave. When this happens they will be free to rome all over Israel and build little villages called New Palestine.
I think there's a reason as to why every citizen in Israel has to serve in the military for 2 years. They are constantly being attacked, not to say though, that said attackers have not been provoked. But if Israel can't safely stop attacking Lebanon and so forth, what do you propose they do? Because if they stop soon enough the Hezbollah will take their chance.
Israel are not the good guys, they should be, but they're not - there are no good guys in this conflict.
I am inclined to agree with United Nations humanitarian chief Jan Egeland, that Israel has 'created a generation of hatred' and that "Proportionality is there in the law. The law has been made through generations of experience on the battlefield. If you kill more civilians than military personnel, one should not attack."
I am inclined to agree with United Nations humanitarian chief Jan Egeland, that Israel has 'created a generation of hatred' and that "Proportionality is there in the law. The law has been made through generations of experience on the battlefield. If you kill more civilians than military personnel, one should not attack."
Last edited by Bertster7 (2006-07-28 05:06:06)
Cameron,
I responded a FEW times to your overly one sided slant toward the palestinians. . . Maybe I was a tad harsh at times, but thats life. . .
I don't know how I got into this whole argument on this thread, but either way ITS POINTLESS, these "serious threads" are pointless. . . . they just get people riled up for NO REASON!
If you are so concerned about world politics, THEN RUN FOR OFFICE!! If your soooooo knowledgeable than put it to good use!
The bottom line, is I DONT CARE. . . you can do your little pro-palestinian spin all you want on these threads blah blah blah, but your just some cpu geek in Ireland, who has a hair up his ass to talk politics online.
I have BIGGER FISH TO FRY, than get out my history books just to prove I'm right and your wrong!! Thats gay, I don't have the time. . .If you do, thats great, more power to you!
Have a good one, because I am DUNZO with this rediculous topic that NO ONE on these boards will ever solve!
I responded a FEW times to your overly one sided slant toward the palestinians. . . Maybe I was a tad harsh at times, but thats life. . .
I don't know how I got into this whole argument on this thread, but either way ITS POINTLESS, these "serious threads" are pointless. . . . they just get people riled up for NO REASON!
If you are so concerned about world politics, THEN RUN FOR OFFICE!! If your soooooo knowledgeable than put it to good use!
The bottom line, is I DONT CARE. . . you can do your little pro-palestinian spin all you want on these threads blah blah blah, but your just some cpu geek in Ireland, who has a hair up his ass to talk politics online.
I have BIGGER FISH TO FRY, than get out my history books just to prove I'm right and your wrong!! Thats gay, I don't have the time. . .If you do, thats great, more power to you!
Have a good one, because I am DUNZO with this rediculous topic that NO ONE on these boards will ever solve!
The difference is that when the Brits gave back Ireland they still had England. If Israel gives back Palestine where do the Israelis go?Bertster7 wrote:
Where these situations are resolved is ALWAYS when the larger more powerful nation makes sufficient concessions to keep the terrorists/freedom fighters happy. A perfect example of this is the British occupation of Ireland. Which has been resolved by the British handing Ireland back, making concessions.
The same is true of every terrorist campaign throughout history.
Thats what needs to happen in Israel - the larger, richer, more powerful state taking responsibility for sorting it out - that's how it's always been, that's how it always will be.
Except for genocide (which a lot of people on this forum seem to condone), Israel making major concessions is the only way forwards.
How is attacking Lebannon making them safer? Granted they are killing terrorists, but for each one they kill 5 more will take their place. The rocket attacks began AFTER the Israeli incursions into Lebanon - it was the kidnapping of the two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah that sparked this off. An attack on military targets, which is just what everbody keeps saying the terrorists should do (by that I mean attacking military not civilian targets).Demoneyes47 wrote:
I think there's a reason as to why every citizen in Israel has to serve in the military for 2 years. They are constantly being attacked, not to say though, that said attackers have not been provoked. But if Israel can't safely stop attacking Lebanon and so forth, what do you propose they do? Because if they stop soon enough the Hezbollah will take their chance.
So Israel could safely have not attacked Lebanon at all. This has led to the death of dozens, potentially hundreds of Israelis and the death of many hundreds of Lebanese (mostly civilians), if you are killing more civilians than military personnel, then you are doing something very wrong.
They don't need to give it all back - just the extra bits they stole since 1948 - for example the half of Jerusalem they annexed. I'm just talking about concessions not the mass migration (or dissolution) of the entire state of Israel.rawls2 wrote:
The difference is that when the Brits gave back Ireland they still had England. If Israel gives back Palestine where do the Israelis go?Bertster7 wrote:
Where these situations are resolved is ALWAYS when the larger more powerful nation makes sufficient concessions to keep the terrorists/freedom fighters happy. A perfect example of this is the British occupation of Ireland. Which has been resolved by the British handing Ireland back, making concessions.
The same is true of every terrorist campaign throughout history.
Thats what needs to happen in Israel - the larger, richer, more powerful state taking responsibility for sorting it out - that's how it's always been, that's how it always will be.
Except for genocide (which a lot of people on this forum seem to condone), Israel making major concessions is the only way forwards.
The Britain/Ireland example was just that, an example - showing a instance where this has worked, which is the only way problems of this type have been resolved throughout the past century - compromise by the more powerful state.
Don't get me wrong I'm certainly not pro-Palestinian or pro-Arab states, I find the way a lot of Arab states are run barbaric and the only way Arab states seem to work is under oppressive regimes (Iran, Saudi Arabia etc.) but this does not change my opinion that Israel should be behaving better! They are stooping to the level of the terrorists, perhaps even lower.
Last edited by Bertster7 (2006-07-27 17:50:35)
I know the solution, Im just not telling anybody.fadedsteve wrote:
Cameron,
I responded a FEW times to your overly one sided slant toward the palestinians. . . Maybe I was a tad harsh at times, but thats life. . .
I don't know how I got into this whole argument on this thread, but either way ITS POINTLESS, these "serious threads" are pointless. . . . they just get people riled up for NO REASON!
If you are so concerned about world politics, THEN RUN FOR OFFICE!! If your soooooo knowledgeable than put it to good use!
The bottom line, is I DONT CARE. . . you can do your little pro-palestinian spin all you want on these threads blah blah blah, but your just some cpu geek in Ireland, who has a hair up his ass to talk politics online.
I have BIGGER FISH TO FRY, than get out my history books just to prove I'm right and your wrong!! Thats gay, I don't have the time. . .If you do, thats great, more power to you!
Have a good one, because I am DUNZO with this rediculous topic that NO ONE on these boards will ever solve!
It's Gunslinger Kerry!!!