Acutally, no. You'll notice that talks about ability to reason, which has nothing to do with mental strength or weakness. Mental strength or weakness is related to ability to persevere.cosmichippo wrote:
Actually, quite the contrary; My reasoning was perfectly accurate, ang Intelligence has everything to do with the word mental and plenty of otherwise..............
Believing in a theory is faith. If it wasn't, the theory would then be fact, also known as a law.xGBlitzkrieg wrote:
FFS Creationism has no evidence! If it did then it wouldn't be Faith, would it?
Evolution = Theory = with strong evidence
Creatonism = Bullshit = with strong evidence
You don't need faith in a science book. Faith is belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. A scientific theory has to be proven many many times by various independent sources before it is accepted as theory. Trust me, I believe more in the college educated, PH.D-holding writers of my science book than a bunch of different writers with different interpretations, beliefs and agendas who wrote the Bible.bEAv3D wrote:
The scientific minds of the universe are constantly challenging those that believe in something, or have faith in something. Isn't it true that those "non believers" are just having FAITH in the science and the experiments? Or that they are just BELIEVING what is written in a science book, a thesis, a blog, or the bathroom wall? I seriously doubt that all of you have done experiments, come up with theories of your own, or even challenged anything that has been written in a physics book. You just BELIEVE. So, I guess the question is what makes you so different? Why is it ignorance to believe in God, or any other heavenly body, but is perfectly OK to BELIEVE something someone wrote down on a post-it note after they looked through a telescope. I am just wondering?
ooooo.... someone found dictionary.com. OK, so here's the link so everyone can follow along.Obey_m0rph3us wrote:
You don't need faith in a science book. Faith is belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. A scientific theory has to be proven many many times by various independent sources before it is accepted as theory. Trust me, I believe more in the college educated, PH.D-holding writers of my science book than a bunch of different writers with different interpretations, beliefs and agendas who wrote the Bible.bEAv3D wrote:
The scientific minds of the universe are constantly challenging those that believe in something, or have faith in something. Isn't it true that those "non believers" are just having FAITH in the science and the experiments? Or that they are just BELIEVING what is written in a science book, a thesis, a blog, or the bathroom wall? I seriously doubt that all of you have done experiments, come up with theories of your own, or even challenged anything that has been written in a physics book. You just BELIEVE. So, I guess the question is what makes you so different? Why is it ignorance to believe in God, or any other heavenly body, but is perfectly OK to BELIEVE something someone wrote down on a post-it note after they looked through a telescope. I am just wondering?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faith
But instead of skipping to definition number 2 as you did, lets look at number 1.
Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
Let's see, you seem to be CONFIDENT in BELIEVING in the IDEAS that your "college exucated, PH.D-holding writers" wrote in science books. So you seem to have a huge amount of TRUST in the PERSON writing these IDEAS in your text books.
Did I miss anyTHING.. nope, there's the last one. From what I see, you do have some sort of faith. All hope is not lost.
Last edited by bEAv3D (2006-07-26 15:52:57)
Damn, you caught me
I believe in science, I don't have faith in it. I confidently belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing, but that's only half the definition of faith. Faith is belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. Science rests on logical proof and material evidence. Religion does not (unless you count a 200 year old book as material evidence. Or a Shroud with a shady past)
I believe in science, I don't have faith in it. I confidently belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing, but that's only half the definition of faith. Faith is belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. Science rests on logical proof and material evidence. Religion does not (unless you count a 200 year old book as material evidence. Or a Shroud with a shady past)
Wrong. It is keeping it in place. Without it there is Anarchy and Chaos..............Alexanderthegrape wrote:
I object to that statement.Miller wrote:
False. You have to be ignorant not to accept a religion.
I believe religion is the chain holding humanity back from peace and prosperity and evolvement.
I have one thought on the whole thing in general. I don't remember who said this but I hold it to be true...
A person goes through their whole life believing in God only to die and find out there was no God. He LOST nothing.
A person goes through life NOT believing in God only to die and find out there is a God. He HAS LOST everything.
Just food for thought.
A person goes through their whole life believing in God only to die and find out there was no God. He LOST nothing.
A person goes through life NOT believing in God only to die and find out there is a God. He HAS LOST everything.
Just food for thought.
Last edited by stonehand (2006-07-26 16:47:12)
Except he has lived his entire life in fear of something that doesn't exist, that was shoved into his head before he could think for himself, that is prejudical and dangerous, and that has killed hundreds of times more than it has saved.stonehand wrote:
A person goes through their whole life believing in God only to die and find out there was no God. He LOST nothing.
Just food for thought.
Last edited by Obey_m0rph3us (2006-07-26 16:53:06)
Not true. He pays the oppertunity cost of believing in god. He could have been doing something else with the time he spent believing in god. If there is no egyptian afterlife they sure as heck wasted a lot of resources preparing all their pharaohs for it.stonehand wrote:
I have one thought on the whole thing in general. I don't remember who said this but I hold it to be true...
A person goes through their whole life believing in God only to die and find out there was no God. He LOST nothing.
A person goes through life NOT believing in God only to die and find out there is a God. He HAS LOST everything.
Just food for thought.
Right, the crusades were a kind and peaceful time.stonehand wrote:
Wrong. It is keeping it in place. Without it there is Anarchy and Chaos..............Alexanderthegrape wrote:
I object to that statement.Miller wrote:
False. You have to be ignorant not to accept a religion.
I believe religion is the chain holding humanity back from peace and prosperity and evolvement.
Perhaps I went a bit far there, but I meant 'mastering English' to the point where anyone who paid attention in high school won't wince internally when they read various comments. I must say that one of the best ways to do this in written form is to saturate yourself with published reading material in the language you're working on.PuckMercury wrote:
I'm as much in favor of "while in Rome" and basic grammar as the next guy
but mastering English? I've met few people who can speak as well as I and I haven't "mastered' the language. If it's obvious that they're not a native English speaker and you can see the point of the post, give them that benefit of the doubt - seriously.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-07-26 18:34:40)
point taken
I think there is a basic inability to seperate conotation from denotaion. I say this with particular deference to two terms. I'll spell it out in my own words in an effort to potentially move forward
ignorance -
denotation - a lack of knowledge with respect to a subject
conotation - stupidity or a lack of intelligence in general
faith -
denotation - a confident belief in the validity of a particular notion, idea, or set of ideals.
conotation - Jesus freak, a religious belief flying in the face of "reasonable science"
In this light, I reaffirm what I stated earlier and ultimately no one was able or chose to address:
I think there is a basic inability to seperate conotation from denotaion. I say this with particular deference to two terms. I'll spell it out in my own words in an effort to potentially move forward
ignorance -
denotation - a lack of knowledge with respect to a subject
conotation - stupidity or a lack of intelligence in general
faith -
denotation - a confident belief in the validity of a particular notion, idea, or set of ideals.
conotation - Jesus freak, a religious belief flying in the face of "reasonable science"
In this light, I reaffirm what I stated earlier and ultimately no one was able or chose to address:
Nothing has ever been shoved into my head for one. I spent many years as an athiest. You believe what you want to believe not what someone else tells you to. If you can't have your own beliefs then you are simple minded.Obey_m0rph3us wrote:
Except he has lived his entire life in fear of something that doesn't exist, that was shoved into his head before he could think for himself, that is prejudical and dangerous, and that has killed hundreds of times more than it has saved.stonehand wrote:
A person goes through their whole life believing in God only to die and find out there was no God. He LOST nothing.
Just food for thought.
It's not true in your opinion but not to mine. And as far as Egyptians go I think when the Pharaohs walked the earth they thought that they were gods in flesh as I recall.jonsimon wrote:
Not true. He pays the oppertunity cost of believing in god. He could have been doing something else with the time he spent believing in god. If there is no Egyptian afterlife they sure as heck wasted a lot of resources preparing all their pharaohs for it.stonehand wrote:
I have one thought on the whole thing in general. I don't remember who said this but I hold it to be true...
A person goes through their whole life believing in God only to die and find out there was no God. He LOST nothing.
A person goes through life NOT believing in God only to die and find out there is a God. He HAS LOST everything.
Just food for thought.
I do consider a book as material evidence. As do you. Yours is just not the Bible, it's whatever science book you happen to have handy. BTW, the Bible is just a tad older than 200 years.Obey_m0rph3us wrote:
Damn, you caught me
I believe in science, I don't have faith in it. I confidently belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing, but that's only half the definition of faith. Faith is belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. Science rests on logical proof and material evidence. Religion does not (unless you count a 200 year old book as material evidence. Or a Shroud with a shady past)
My point is this: To have faith, does not require ignorance. It requires a different (not stronger or weaker) state of mind. I am fortunate enough to be open minded, and not reject science totally. I believe that there is a scientific explanation for most everything. However, I also have faith in the fact that God is present in every happening. I believe there is some truth in things such as carbon dating and evolution, but I don't believe that they just happened by chance. I have faith in the fact that what has happened, and the knowledge that we possess in our science is God's will. Now, I know some of you will totally disagree, but that's my view, and hopefully you can be mature enough to respect that.
Then you don't understand the definition of faithObey_m0rph3us wrote:
I believe in science, I don't have faith in it.
Show me where the theory of evolution has been proven once! If it was proven many times over it would be fact.Obey_m0rph3us wrote:
You don't need faith in a science book. Faith is belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. A scientific theory has to be proven many many times by various independent sources before it is accepted as theory. Trust me, I believe more in the college educated, PH.D-holding writers of my science book than a bunch of different writers with different interpretations, beliefs and agendas who wrote the Bible.bEAv3D wrote:
The scientific minds of the universe are constantly challenging those that believe in something, or have faith in something. Isn't it true that those "non believers" are just having FAITH in the science and the experiments? Or that they are just BELIEVING what is written in a science book, a thesis, a blog, or the bathroom wall? I seriously doubt that all of you have done experiments, come up with theories of your own, or even challenged anything that has been written in a physics book. You just BELIEVE. So, I guess the question is what makes you so different? Why is it ignorance to believe in God, or any other heavenly body, but is perfectly OK to BELIEVE something someone wrote down on a post-it note after they looked through a telescope. I am just wondering?
Last edited by GATOR591957 (2006-07-27 08:20:55)
I am not going to convey where my trust is set, but i would like to challenge everyone to please write in non argumental ways. It is silly to post your opinion and then tag on a line at the end that cuts down the other person's belief system, and expect people to respect what you have just written.
Instead of posting:
Evolution - theory - with evidence
Creation - Bull****
and vice versa
Why don't you post what you know, instead of bashing what you don't know. Try posting:
Evolution has been proved in these ways...1...2...3...4...etc
I am not convinced with creaton for these reasons...1...2...3...4...etc.
If we follow this method, then the original intention of the author of this board will be respected. Not to debate, but to convey ones belief (without bashing anothers)
I know this point has been made before, but it seems that we are not following this much.
Instead of posting:
Evolution - theory - with evidence
Creation - Bull****
and vice versa
Why don't you post what you know, instead of bashing what you don't know. Try posting:
Evolution has been proved in these ways...1...2...3...4...etc
I am not convinced with creaton for these reasons...1...2...3...4...etc.
If we follow this method, then the original intention of the author of this board will be respected. Not to debate, but to convey ones belief (without bashing anothers)
I know this point has been made before, but it seems that we are not following this much.
LOL, ya hahhahahahahhhahhahah good one.stonehand wrote:
Wrong. It is keeping it in place. Without it there is Anarchy and Chaos..............Alexanderthegrape wrote:
I object to that statement.Miller wrote:
False. You have to be ignorant not to accept a religion.
I believe religion is the chain holding humanity back from peace and prosperity and evolvement.
I believe this is the debate and serious talk thread. Sometimes one must show where the opposing view is in, or believed in error. I agree this is no place for personal attacks.classic.timing wrote:
I am not going to convey where my trust is set, but i would like to challenge everyone to please write in non argumental ways. It is silly to post your opinion and then tag on a line at the end that cuts down the other person's belief system, and expect people to respect what you have just written.
Instead of posting:
Evolution - theory - with evidence
Creation - Bull****
and vice versa
Why don't you post what you know, instead of bashing what you don't know. Try posting:
Evolution has been proved in these ways...1...2...3...4...etc
I am not convinced with creaton for these reasons...1...2...3...4...etc.
If we follow this method, then the original intention of the author of this board will be respected. Not to debate, but to convey ones belief (without bashing anothers)
I know this point has been made before, but it seems that we are not following this much.
faith Audio pronunciation of "faith" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fth)PuckMercury wrote:
Then you don't understand the definition of faithObey_m0rph3us wrote:
I believe in science, I don't have faith in it.
n.
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.
Most of science rests on logical proof or material evidence. Faith is believing in something without material evidence.
Yea, show me where "a man in the sky went click to create the universe" was proved. The Theory of Evolution has been supplemented with such facts as fossil records, comparative anatomy of present day species, DNA sequencing, the geographical distribution of species, etc.GATOR591957 wrote:
Show me where the theory of evolution has been proven once! If it was proven many times over it would be fact.Obey_m0rph3us wrote:
You don't need faith in a science book. Faith is belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. A scientific theory has to be proven many many times by various independent sources before it is accepted as theory. Trust me, I believe more in the college educated, PH.D-holding writers of my science book than a bunch of different writers with different interpretations, beliefs and agendas who wrote the Bible.bEAv3D wrote:
The scientific minds of the universe are constantly challenging those that believe in something, or have faith in something. Isn't it true that those "non believers" are just having FAITH in the science and the experiments? Or that they are just BELIEVING what is written in a science book, a thesis, a blog, or the bathroom wall? I seriously doubt that all of you have done experiments, come up with theories of your own, or even challenged anything that has been written in a physics book. You just BELIEVE. So, I guess the question is what makes you so different? Why is it ignorance to believe in God, or any other heavenly body, but is perfectly OK to BELIEVE something someone wrote down on a post-it note after they looked through a telescope. I am just wondering?
Please, someone show me some cold hard facts of Creationism.
As you seemed to focus on only the second given definition from dictionary.com, I figured I'd continue in that vain.Obey_m0rph3us wrote:
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
see synonyms at belief
ergo, to believe is something is to have faith in it ipso facto.
Here is another religion following person.topthrill05 wrote:
Here is another religion bashing thread.
Why can't you just let us live our lives without having to hear all this bull shit. Where have I shown ignorance or where I am mentally weak? Thats right no where, what you are implying is ignorant though. Or maybe it is a matter of opinion. Regardless I am sick of this bashing and stereotyping.
Why can't you just let us live our lives without having to hear all this whining. Where have I shown a proclamation of faith or a wanting to follow another's belief? That's right, no-where, what you are implying is ignorant though. It is a matter of opinion, as is everything in this world. Regardless I am sick of this worshiping and stereotyping.
Just my own version of what he said...(a bit sarcastic and patronising, I know...but live a little!)
Back on topic, if everyone were to follow the same religion, there would be nothing to compare each person against another and so ignorance would be eliminated. Ponder that, if you will.
You are evading the issue.. The theory of evolution is just that a theory. I will concede there are facts and artifacts showing the gradual adaptation of man through time. Nothing thus far has proven how man was created. I'm asking you to show me the cold hard facts that prove Evolution created man. If you'll read back a few threads I pose that neither can be proven.Obey_m0rph3us wrote:
faith Audio pronunciation of "faith" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fth)PuckMercury wrote:
Then you don't understand the definition of faithObey_m0rph3us wrote:
I believe in science, I don't have faith in it.
n.
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.
Most of science rests on logical proof or material evidence. Faith is believing in something without material evidence.Yea, show me where "a man in the sky went click to create the universe" was proved. The Theory of Evolution has been supplemented with such facts as fossil records, comparative anatomy of present day species, DNA sequencing, the geographical distribution of species, etc.GATOR591957 wrote:
Show me where the theory of evolution has been proven once! If it was proven many times over it would be fact.Obey_m0rph3us wrote:
You don't need faith in a science book. Faith is belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. A scientific theory has to be proven many many times by various independent sources before it is accepted as theory. Trust me, I believe more in the college educated, PH.D-holding writers of my science book than a bunch of different writers with different interpretations, beliefs and agendas who wrote the Bible.
Please, someone show me some cold hard facts of Creationism.
The Dark side has twisted you and your mind, Darth GatorGATOR591957 wrote:
You are evading the issue.. The theory of evolution is just that a theory. I will concede there are facts and artifacts showing the gradual adaptation of man through time. Nothing thus far has proven how man was created. I'm asking you to show me the cold hard facts that prove Evolution created man. If you'll read back a few threads I pose that neither can be proven.Obey_m0rph3us wrote:
faith Audio pronunciation of "faith" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fth)PuckMercury wrote:
Then you don't understand the definition of faithObey_m0rph3us wrote:
I believe in science, I don't have faith in it.
n.
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.
Most of science rests on logical proof or material evidence. Faith is believing in something without material evidence.Yea, show me where "a man in the sky went click to create the universe" was proved. The Theory of Evolution has been supplemented with such facts as fossil records, comparative anatomy of present day species, DNA sequencing, the geographical distribution of species, etc.GATOR591957 wrote:
Show me where the theory of evolution has been proven once! If it was proven many times over it would be fact.
Please, someone show me some cold hard facts of Creationism.