BF2S Forums U.S. has been the greatest military aggressors of the last century

The Japanese government (not necessarily the people) at that time was a bloodthirsty enemy that needed to be quelled. Given the chance they would've exterminated the Chinese just as Hitler would've exterminated the Jews.

The Japanese mind is a very different one from the rest of the world. They tend to enjoy living in police states and subjecting to harsh authority. While I'm not saying that any one of those innocent civilians deserved to die or in any way suffer for the actions of their government, they really did bring it upon themselves. At the very least no one can deny that the Japanese government deserved the devastation it was given for commiting such a cowardly act as the Pearl Harbor attack.

Hey, they started it. :p

*ToRRo*cT| wrote:

America? i,m not impressed by there tactics in war. American Way of war is the AMOUNT of weapons, soldiers etc etc.  but strategies? nah! i have seen them blowing the most amounts of bombs on a german line in italy in WW2 and still they were having problems getting that cathedral LOL! No Tactics No Victory For You.

What orifice are you spewing this crap from? Please take some Immodium AD.

(Radio Noise) Fuckerrrrrrr Out

Indeed.

Nehil wrote:

PLEASE EVERY AMERICAN, REPEAT AFTER ME:

2 FRIGGING DIVISIONS

That's what the Almighty USA, Canada and (Not so) Great Britan fought against in Normandy. While over

40 FUCKING DIVISIONS fought the Russians. That's over 80%.

I'm not trying to ignore the war efforts mabe by the USA. But the WAR WOULD HAVE BEEN WON WITHOUT USA. It would have lasted 2 or 3 years more and more live would have been lost, that's for sure. But do you really think you KILLED EVERY GERMAN YOURSELVES? Fuck no I say. Russia was the no.1 nation in most lives lost during WWII, second was Poland.  PLEASE DONT EXAGGERATE THE US WAR EFFORT. Now flame me.

I won't flame you. Just point out some of the small details you forgot that makes your argument null and void.

US had two forces. Africa and W.Europe.
Nazi troops were pulled off the Russian front to the Western front.
Germans could not complete their attack on the Russian front due to strategic bombing against their fuel depots and supply lines from US bombers out of England.

Tell me again how Europe would have won? Esspecially if Russia had to fight a two front war itself against Japan? Oh did you forget about Japan and how the US kept them occupied? Don't worry many seem to forget that very important part of WWII and how it effected the war in Europe.

I'll forgive you this time now go read some more history books.

Nehil wrote:

FeloniousMonk wrote:

The Japanese mind is a very different one from the rest of the world. They tend to enjoy living in police states and subjecting to harsh authority. While I'm not saying that any one of those innocent civilians deserved to die or in any way suffer for the actions of their government, they really did bring it upon themselves. At the very least no one can deny that the Japanese government deserved the devastation it was given for commiting such a cowardly act as the Pearl Harbor attack.

Hey, they started it. :p

Well, I think that no matter how coward an attack is you can never counter attack civilians (well you didn't kill civilians for the Pearl Harbor, Im aware of that). You can't really blame the civilians either becuse Japan was not a democracy during the war therefor not everyone was pro war. Altho Japanese people were fucked in the head on an average during the WWII.

These two posts irk me so much on such a huge level I can't even fathom replying to this for my own sanity!

FeloniousMonk wrote:

Yes, the US has been a major aggressor in the past century, moreso than any other nation. We average a war every few years in our short history. Some justified, some not so much.

Yes the U.S. Has been in alot of wars in its short history but most of them have not been a war of aggression


Aggression being : The act of initiating hostilities or invasion.

Besides the current war in Iraq  what other wars of aggresion has the U.S. been involved in?   bay of pigs,  that mexican Pancho Villa thing in 1917.  I'm sure there is one or 2 more but most of the wars have been defending countries from invasion, or part of a U.N. or a N.A.T.O mission.


Basically what I'm saying is the U.S. does go to war but being the Worlds only superpower it could be a hell of alot more aggresive.  Probably one of the benfits of being one of the few dominating powers in history that is a democracy.

As for dropping the atomic bombs on Japan, I'm pretty sure that combatant, and non-combatant casulaties would of been alot higher if the Allies would of had to invade Japan to end the war.

The Japanese do not, from what I last read, live in a police state. They have a Parliament and they have a democratic system. Word is Constitutional Monarchy and this was instituted post WW2. The Emperor remains an important figure-head in the Japanese society, similar to the way the King of Thailand is worshipped. While Emperor Hirohito had a role to play in Japan's entry to WW2, eventually he paved the way for the surrender. Whether dropping the two atomic bombs were justified, its open to debate.  Someone would have done it, whether it was the Germans or the Americans, only a question of timing and target.

kilroy0097 wrote:

Alright after reading everything finally to the end I have to say something that I don't think many of our friends outside the US, who posted on this thread, realize.

By stating the US contributed siginificantly to WWII and by stating that it was the industrial power and the man power of the US that turned the tide in the war, does not means that all the other countries in the world are shit. Stop thinking that it means that. I'm sorry if stating these facts seem to hurt a few egos but its simply a matter of fact.

But let me state that WWII in the end was won by a combined effort of all Allies.

Cheers.

Well I can agree to that, but some Americans seem to think that the US did everything and saved all our asses by themselves. That's not the case, but they sure as hell helped alot. I hope no one deny this, and I'm glad the US helped out in WWII but not to happy about dropping bombs on Hirshima and Nagasaki. But the Great Britan did some stuff like that to, like in Dresden.

Back on topic...
Bottom line is that the U.S. has never tried to take over the world, nor India, nor South Africa, nor Europe.  When that happens you can call the United States the aggressors.

Last edited by j-bass (2005-11-23 03:35:55)

rc-combat wrote:

SlartyBartFast wrote:

RC-combat...let me guess you reside in th US?  Interesting speculation.  I understood that many German scientist went to the US (by thier choiceor not I don't know) to work on the US space program (later to become NASA).  These guys were working on jet planes, with some limited sucess, in order to reclaim the skies, by gaining dominance in the air for the Luftwaffe.  Whilst they did have a nuclear program I don't remember any great success. I just can't see your connection to the Germans developing and using Nuclear weapons had the US not been involved in WWII, but you may be able to educate me

Yes I live in the US, I have a I have a degree in History and a Minor in Military History. While the German Nuclear Program was not a total success by 1945, given more time the conclusion by most professionals is the Germans would have developed a Nuclear weapon.

So here is how it goes if the US had stayed Neutral.
1. There would have been no Lend-Lease Program between the US and UK/Russia. Without this supply of munitions, medical supplies, petrol, airplanes, and armor the UK and Russia would not have been able to hold on until the arrival of the US.
2. While Russia may have been able to counter-attack, the Germans would have been able to shift more resources to that front eventaully it most likely have stalemated into a trench warfare situation. The UK would have been under siege and slowly starved to death without ever mounting the resources or man power to invade.
3. The French, Viche France had already capitulated and while the french resistance was a thorn in the Germans side, that is all it was as they could never mount a true offensive versus the Nazi War Machine.
4. German Scientists, would have had years longer to advance Air, Armor, Rocket, and Nuclear Research. And Hitler has proven he would have employed any new weapon that he believed would hurt his enemies.
5. The 8th Air Force would not have pounded the most industrialized country in Europe into dust, therefore allowing the Germans to continued

The US provided the means of supply for the UK from 1939 until after the end of the War. Without this the islands under siege would have fell there is no doubt. Russia would most likely have survived but it's Eastern Provinces most likely including Moscow would have fell.

Through the use of Lend-Lease and the Supply of troops, the timeline for reasearch the Nazi's had was drastically shortened. Without it the US would have never developed our own Nuclear Program. People ask whay about the Japs, we still would have a Nuclear Program because of them. While this is an opinion most likely it would not be a true one. The US Nuclear Weapon Program was spurred on by Intelligence gathered on the German Program. Also if the US shifted its full resources to the War in the Pacific, Nuclear arms would not have been needed as the Japs could not have fought the US successfully for long. The Japs were almost positive if they attacked us we would get involved in the war in Europe, many of their Admirals and Generals warned Tojo that if we did not get involved in Europe that their Empire was surely doomed.

Hey RC,
Excellent stuff I have been educated! My Degree is in IT and ITIL systems management.  Much more boring crap than this I should have taken history...oh Well (I always did well in history at high school).  Glad you used the terms "most likely", etc as we are talking about things we can only surmize from what was happening at the time.  At one point back there someone was quoting as facts events in history that never occured...scary stuff:) As to your point 3. re: the French agreed in most part.  I did comment on the French as someone said it was a token effort (was that you, couldn't be bothered looking back throught he thread).  My opinon is that when ordinary citizens (not soldiers) died to provide information that saved the lives of thousands of soldiers (US ones too) that would then go on to win more victories is far from token.

By the way I am no US basher.  The Australian foriegn policy is very much in line with the US.  I think our govement does often follow the US to stay in the "good books".  Our economy has a large dependance on wheat, and the US government's wheat subsidy to US farmers was hard on us.  So our government likes to get points so we can use them to get your government to make the decesion that will favour our economy. I will tell you when I think hard about it I am very happy we follow your lead. 

We are right next to Indonesia they have an army of I think some 13 million soldiers, this is very close to Australia's entire polpulataion!!! (by having such a small populous we will never be anything of a power, so we need to be buddies with you guy's...but well let come on down when the rest of the world is a radioactive glass bowl, and it's still nice and fresh down here).  Australia has a history of pissing the Indonesians off.  The last time was a few years back when we politically forced them out of occupied Timor (another Aussie nieghbor) and then provided miltary policing during the democratic voting to quell the rebel forces that opposed Timor's independance.  If they ever decide "it's Time" and send the 13 mill soldiers over here, it's nice to know we have our "American Buddies" to back us up. And I know you'll come Pine Gap is here..the little US miltary installation out in the desert monotoring all the emails and coomuunications that fly around the world..too much to loose!!

Given all the talk has been about the US, I'm gonna fly my proud Australian flag.  We might not have the industrial might, population or machinary to be the deciding factor in any conflict, but I'll tall ya, any ditry, shitty crappy job that'll probably get your head blown off and our Diggers of WWI & WWI were up for it. In WWI the British wanted us, the New Zealanders (and I think some Canadians too, or maybe they bailed at the last minute) to make bayonet charges on Turkish Machine gun nest at Gillipoli.  We said shit yeah! and losses were high.  We had to spread our recources pretty thin too.  The British were taking our troops to support and protect the "Mother Country" England, and mean while we had to fight the Japanese in the tropical jungles of New Guinnea to stop them reaching Northern Australia.  Not wanting to sound callous or anything, but thank god they pissed you off too, or our arse (Aussie for ass) was grass.  With out your big arse fleet of ships smacking them all around the pacific and taking most of thier attention we were gunna be the next island of the Empire of Japan

Incidently do you know that US-Australian relations became very strained during WWII?  Whilst fighting in the Pacific many US forces were either stationed or visited here.  Apparently the US soldiers, marines, whatever had much better pay and more money than the Aussie Diggers (sorry slang for Soldiers).  The uniforms were nice cotton, whereas ours were sctrcthy ugly wool.  The US soldiers could afford to take girls on better dates, buy gifts, smokes and booze for the girls.  The Aussie Diggers couldn't. So all the Aussie chicks dated US soldiers.  Now this really pissed off the Diggers and the male civilians.   US soldiers were being bashed by groups of "Men" (I use the term loosely).  Riots started to break out.  A US based was actually attacked by rioters (both civilian and miltary) and shots were fired.  There were casualties but I need to check if there were any deaths.  Anyway not a proud moment in our history, but you know how men get when it comes to their women!!

There was a mention of vegetarians...and Hitler being one.  I think I am correct in saying Charles Manson was also a vegetarian.  I think that pretty much sums up what happens when you don't get protien.

Those discussing Japan.  It is not a police state.  I was there in 2000 during thier democratic elections.  They do have an emporer but it works pretty much like the English Royal Family.  The country is governed by an elected government.  I was acutaly amazed that I could wander around Tokyo, own my own at all hours of the night and day and not have any hassles or see any cops.  THere people were so humble, polite and friendly and tiny (compared to my frame anyway) I could hardly relate them to Japan of World War II.  I just kept thinking the last thing you wanna do is piss these guys off!!  My limited exposure (about 3 weeks in Tokyo) I found it to be a great place with great people and would loc\ve to go back with my wife.  I'd even like to try living and working there for an extended period....and my old man hates 'em cause they sunk his Patrol Boat!!

Forgive any spelling or gramatical errors it's late here and I'm tired

Nehil wrote:

So I guess 100.000 dead civilians aren't a big deal? But nearly 3.000 dead in 9-11 is? Sorry Sir but you seem to have your head up your ass. Should I get a life? Sure I'll get another one when you admit that Almighty America Inc. has fucked up sometimes and will fuck up again. I'll bash back tomorrow, I gotta go now cuse Polar bears are attacking my town    (not really dumbass)

You know, we killed more people in Tokyo in a single night with B-29 fire bombing than those killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  Both nuclear sites were legitimate military targets being headquarters to two major armies and industrial plants.  So, what was the difference between a 1000 plane B-29 raid and a single B-29 raid besides the method of releasing energy?  None.  Also, those damned nukes that hung like an umbrella over Europe for 40 years after 1946 kept those commie amigos of yours from invading anywhere past Poland, Lithuania, Hungary, etc.  Maybe you sing the Soviet national anthem in your own home - thats your right - but the rest of Europe did not want to sing along with you.

You always forget to mention with that selective amnesia of yours and the dangerous tilt you have to Poppa Stalin (read commie in Sweden) that after seeing the level of resistance in Okinawa that the planners knew their launch on the main Japanese islands in 1946 would have been a total bloodbath for both Japan and the Allies.  Civilians with sticks charging the beaches against armor, the allies being killed by exploding children.  Bushido amigo, what a mind set.

One more thing you neutral pussy, think Hitler would have let you stay neutral after swalling the whole of Europe?  Nope, you whimps and the Swiss would have been invaded and your'd be singing to the Fatherland like everyone else.  Problem is that after everyone is gone, who would have stepped up and defended you?  Those damned Yankees across the ocean in the United States of America.

So, for myself and the rest of the millions of Americans that have served and are still serving in the Armed Forces of the United States, especially Strategic Air Command, I accept your thanks for being able to spew and rant.  Without us still today you'd be under a communist boot and you'd not have this change to display your cowardice and total lack of intelligent thought.

BOTH NUCLEAR SITES WERE LEGIT MILITARY TARGETS??

GET F***ED YOU MORON

What the US did then was atrocious, just to recap what they did for you:


They blew up TWO Japanese cities, whilst the Japanese were on their way to surrender. HOW IS THAT RIGHT YOU FOOLS!!

America: Land of the amazingly stupid and patriotic

SlartyBartFast wrote:

By the way 1234gbd I did take your advice and went and had sex with multiple partners.  My left hand, right hand and right foot.  Then I laid on my right hand until it went numb, and had sex with it again and it felt like someon elses hand cause it was numb, so that's four partners

That is gross! very gross! the foot?! lol